Monc, I came here to MB after reading SAA thinking that I was not unique after all, and that there were predictable actions and behaviors that, if I knew them, would help me better handle the situation.

I am different in many ways from the majority of the others here though, I think, in that I've been in a recovery program of another type for quite a while, so the concepts and plans outlined here make sense to me perhaps in ways others don't yet grasp.

For example, Plan B isn't hard to understand or implement for me, as I see the twofold benefit to it: Cut loose the enabling behavior that allows the WS to continue their A, and makes the BS go "cold turkey" and begin their own recovery right away.

Perhaps this is why I don't worry about my relenting or giving in to the temptation to violate the darkness imposed by Plan B. Yet, I know that I have to continue to reassert and reaffirm my dedication to Plan B every day, or I might waver and succumb to the temptation to contact the WS.

"What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition."

Last night at dinner, my daughter made a comment (which she's said at least once before to my recollection), "Dad, I graduated college and found that you had brought another child (WW) into the house." She also pointed out to me that WW is a very poor parent: She left her children behind when she left her FXH to "dive into a bottle" and now, when she gets them for their bi-monthly visitation she does nothing to help them grow, learn and progress.

For example, DD15 is constantly receiving terrible grades and has started to skip school and is perhaps experimenting with drugs. WW has never tried to work with her, to help her with homework, or to address the reasons DD15 is behaving incorrigibly.

In fact, over recent months (I mark July as the time frame in which WW's relapse began, but it may have been even earlier), she would have the kids over for the weekend, and leave them sitting in front of the TV while WW went out running, and doing her own things (which probably included meeting OM). Hardly any sort of parental interaction, don't you think?

Yet WW insisted that I "butt out" of her disciplining (!?) the children, complaining that I was "undermining" her.

My daughter told me that her kids love their mother, but have no respect for her. It's amazing what you hear (learn) after the fact, isn't it?

Hi Fred, I am just catching up on your thread and it sounds like she has moved out now, which is good.

Its unfortunate that there was debate over the Plan B letter, but that can't be fixed. The Plan B letter is usually delivered in a way so there can't be debate like this. As you see, all you got was classic fogbabble, ie: "its not about the OM... blah, blah,blah..." Even though you can see it certainly is. They ALL say this, btw. Typically the plan B letter is mailed or left for the WS so taht the last thing they remember is NOT debate over its contents.

The next thing you can expect is for her to try and TEST your resolve about Plan B. She will call or come by or text to see if you really MEAN no contact. She will test you to see if you mean what you said and try to get you back under her control. If you fail that test, you will lose any leverage you have with her.

And let me explain what I mean. The OM probably meets 1-2 top needs and you meet 3-4 minor needs. She will not realize this until you are completely out of the picture. When the realization starts to set in, she will start to panic and will try to get you back in the wings [not in a marriage, but as a side line guy] in order TO PROP UP HER AFFAIR. That is the only way it can work, is if 2 men are meeting [or prepared to meet] her needs.

When you aren't there to meet her needs in any way, the affair will start to crumble just like it did in SAA. Being out in the open like this will ruin the fantasy of her affair.

So, it will be CRITICAL for you to avoid any and all contact. The darker you are, the better your chances are for recovery because your darkness will help kill this affair.

I would have a plan in place in case she tries to contact you. If she calls, don't take her call. If she texts, delete it. Don't allow her back in that house under any circumstances.

If you didn't designate an intermediary, I would correct that mistake now. Get someone lined up and have him email her offering to be a go between.

I do recall others who are in AA themselves or their spouses were. I wonder how often it's the recovering addict whose in an affair vs the other spouse recoverer or not.

Yea, I've read most of the Big Blue Book and understand where you're coming from. I had read it upon suggestion because for a time some folks here thought I had a gaming addiction...I thought so too but that's a different matter. I've found that I don't anymore than the average american has a TV addiction and that I spend my time with distant friends.

I won't lie, yesterday following what was going on was for me painful. I'm empathetic and my own trauma has simply exagerated how extreme I feel things, such as tearing up as I was writing yesterday to you. I'm very glad to see you have experience to help you through this, obviously 58 years of life to my 27, but glad none the less.

That last line... I'll keep that in mind.

Fred, we recovering alcoholics GET this in a very unique way, because we understand the mentality of the WS and what it takes to recover. The WS mentality is just like us when we were drinking. They are just like falling down drunks!

The reason Dr Harley GETS IT is because he ran a chain of treatment centers for years. He is one of the very FEW marriage counselors that understands the foggy mindset of a WS.

Agreed Melodylane. I had suggested that yesterday to him. That she was testing his resolve right out the gate and told him about the intermidiary. I second this again.

As to the intermediary "offering," make it an absolute. She will have to tell that person or nothing happens. She will refuse that person otherwise.

Indeed. I think so, too. I slept last night.
I had planned to hand it over to her as she was leaving, but she asked about continuing to receive her mail here (one of the items in the Plan B letter) and I said NO. Since the topic had come up, I gave her the letter.

She tried to test it early. She asked me to gas up the car. I said NO. She asked me to reimburse her for the time she had filled up the car. I said NO.
I am prepared. I have her telephone number blocked on my phone. I'm having the locks changed today and I've activated the home alarm system (and changed the codeword). She cannot open the garage door. So if she shows up, I will see her in advance (my home office windows out to the front of the house) and I will just "disappear" until she goes away. If she emails or texts me, I will delete the messages unread.

Oh, you have no idea how resolved I am to not communicate with her unless it's on MY TERMS. As spelled out in Plan B.
My Plan B letter designated my attorney. I chose to not get friends or neighbors involved. And my lawyer (a woman, by the way) is quite the pit bull. I run everything (including Plan B) past her. WW knows this (it's in the letter) and confirmed it during one of our brief exchanges yesterday. My Plan B says that she is to call my lawyer when she wants to remove the rest of her stuff. That's the only reason she should try to contact me. Or, if she quits OM and wants to try to rebuild the M.

WW was broadsided by my terms that she come by only once -- with a moving van -- to pick up her stuff. She was unprepared for that, and I let her know that the next time she comes over, it's with a truck to move.

I am moving forward as if the M is over. That way, if it comes to that, I will have been "in recovery" already for months. Rebuilding the marriage is my wish, but my belief is the odds are against it.

Fred, did you say she was drinking again too?

When by coincidence ("coincidence" = miracle in which God remains anonymous) I happened upon the SAA book, I saw this immediately. It was SAA that made me realize WW was in relapse.

I have a sponsee who lives in an Oxford House. He sees relapse often. He was my "third party" yesterday. And he confirmed the behavior exhibited by WW was consistent with that of housemates who had relapsed. This is why her resumption of smoking is so jarring to me; it's so unlike her when she is sane and sober.

Now, my sponsors have advised me, all I can do is pray for her.

But from afar. And in the dark.

Unknown. Her resumption of smoking was just as jarring to me as it she were drinking, though. It's a definite sign she's on that path.

I think she may be using pain pills. She's had some recent medical issues and I think she got a prescription just before she left a week ago (yesterday's move-out was a bit anti-climactic as a result). She's definitely not far from one now...

I agree with your assessment. The mentality is there already.

Yes, probably, as I was questioning my sanity. But, most people do not want to interfere.
One of my sisters is borderline, IMO(and in the opinion of my other sister who has a masters in social work). Her boyfriend is a supe nice guy and she abuses the hell out of him. I want to tell him to run, but, to date, have not, as I fear it will get back to her.

Today might be interesting. The letters I wrote to OMW, OM's employer and landlady should be arriving. Yesterday I sent Plan B letter to OM as well. With delivery confirmation.

Fred, you are a machine!

That's a compliment. I think...

One of the little quips I used to give WW: I only look stupid.

Fred, the inheriting another child deal is very familiar to me. That is why it is so lonely. You have no equal partner.

Then you're better off without her, free to find someone who deserves you.

But not for at least another year! No dating in 2010!

Gee, that's the same advice my sponsor gave me nearly 19 years ago!

He was right. And so are you!

It's tough to know, especially in the emotionally-laden heat of the affair/breakup/divorce, what role a possible "personality disorder" (BPD & NPD features are common) plays in the WW's actions and character-transformation. Hard to know what/how much of it all is purely the affair and what might be pre-existing/pre-disposing from beforehand.

I would suggest that any BS take a long, hard, and honest look at their WS's long-standing personal relationships--past romantic partners, old friendships, and (ESPECIALLY) their family dynamics.

Was their childhood/upbringing relatively "normal" or grossly dysfunctional?
Were they the victim of mental, physical, or (worse yet) sexual abuse?
Did they become excessively promiscuous or "always with someone"
Did they overlap their dating relationships?
Do they maintain decent adult relations with their siblings & parents?
Or is their family dysfunctional/strained within itself?
Do old grudges continue to fester unresolved?
Is your WS normally LOYAL to those related/close to them?
Was your WS really devoted to their marriage or only to their own "feelings"?

The apple tends not to fall far from the tree and the above give some good clues as to whether the affair is an abberation of their character OR a manisfestation of it.

My 2 cents...

Fred,

Why aren't you filing on grounds of adultery? That seems more honest, and I'm pretty sure you can find a judge to waive the waiting period (if you are in Virginia as your name indicates.)