She doesn't want to pack, I think she wants to start something with you, but with your friend around that may not be possible.

I slipped. She asked my friend for some privacy and I let him leave my office. She once again said I'd made Plan B letter all about OM. I insisted I made it about myself. How many times did I mention him in it? Three times. See?

I said that what I'd written was that as long as she was involved with OM I wanted nothing to do with her. She insists that she would leave the marriage, affair or no.

Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. But she's certainly the "invaded alien" and not the woman I fell in love with.

But she still has an affect on me.

But start what? An argument? She insists on "taking the high road" and being "mutually respectful." What hogwash!

DO NOT BE ALONE WITH HER AGAIN!

She will make a false claim, anything to place blame upon you. You are NOT to be alone with her again!

DO NOT LET HER AFFECT YOU!

I meant what PSUBIKER's WW did, she was alone with him, made false allegations and got him kicked out of his own house.

Fred, I will give you some advice on dealing with her that works for me with my first wife, an artist at putting folks on the defensive and turning things back on one.

First, as you undoubtedly realize, the OM is a major , major issue and there is nothing at all wrong about referencing him in your letter.
That said, it does no good to debate anything with her. Simply refuse to engage.
This takes some preactice and self restraint, as she is , undoubtedly, very adept at poking you. She knows your trigger points and has spent a lifetime mastering the technique of probing them and taking attention off herself. I am sure you realize the absurdity of her protestation re including the OM in the letter.

See, these folks have turned the "best defense is an offense " technique into a high art form.as much as you have plenty of ammo and are an articulate defender of your points, don't waste your breath on her.

I often felt that if I could confront/cross examing my XW in front of objective third parties, with a magistrate present to instruct her to answer or desist attacks, I would never lose the debate and she would look like an idiot.

But, we do not have access to that type of venue here. All points you score go unregistered and you just get frustrated. It makes no sens arguing with someone that is so far gone as they have made a career out of dodging and deflecting. If you score a point, the subject is changed or you are accused of being overbearing and controlling.

Just continue to watch her move and do not engage.

SDCW

Looks like your list has got narcassism all over it. My WW fits in quite a few of those.

The attack that gets to me and hurts me the most is her insistence that she would leave the marriage A or no A. She makes a very convincing argument.


The other thing that gets to me is her new smoking. Gasp, gasp, cough.

Her saying she would leave regardless is nothing but fogbabble. She's only leaving because you are interfering with her precious sunshine-and-daydreams "soulmate."

How's it going?

Yeah, well, they all say that type of garbage, Fred. I mean, after all, monster that you are, you drove her to this affair, right? It's not like she had any baggage or history of this type of weirdness... Oh, wait, she lost her kids and her XH hates her, and she was a booze hound(no offense).

None taken, Zelmo.

She just drove off. In "high dudgeon," as they say. Claims I "blindsided" her with the Plan B letter, and thought we were going to have a "mutually respectful" relationship and were going to "remain friends."

I wish she wouldn't smoke in my Jeep.

Oh, they all do that, Fred.

They all think that the OP is going to replace the BS and that the BS will happily share them, and take all the debt, none of the assets, and move out and live in a dump and pine over them forever.

Did she say anything else?

OMG, I wish I could remember it all. Accused me of not thinking straight. Said I was on a pendulum (true). I replied that I dearly wished it would stop -- and that I was making efforts to stop it (Plan B). Said she had never changed, that I was the one who had changed. I disagreed, then dropped it, as it was bait.

My final comments to her were as follows (including a few of her responses): The pendulum comment, above. Said that we had each learned how to hurt one another. Her issue: shame and guilt for leaving her kids, mine: loyalty and betrayal. That if she had wanted to hurt me and wake me up, she certainly had. Finally, said that I had learned A.A. is a program of second chances. That I was willing to give her a second chance if she would do the same.

Her response was that since I had "blindsided" her with the Plan B letter, all hope of a second chance had disappeared. She drove off in a huff (and a puff, no doubt).

I had to close the garage door, as I had cleared the code in the Jeep. She was not a happy camper. Not from the moment she arrived and found my friend here and that we were not going to be alone. I could tell by the way she jetted away that she was quite angry.

And oh, she also let it be known that the place she had found to stay had fallen through. Tsk, tsk.

Are you sure regular cigarettes are all she's smoking?

tl

Well maybe now she will learn.

That's part of the point of Plan B: a dose of reality. You won't be her friend. You won't be her lover. You won't be her ANYTHING unless she commits wholly and solely to you.

Give her time to realize you will be completely out of her life unless she is with you. There is no amicable divorce option. You won't be a thorn in her side; you will be NOTHING to her, and she will never see or hear from you again if she chooses to continue with the other man.

Don't let her fool you: this IS the grown-up thing to do. Avoid her from now on. You have started Plan B; if she shows up, don't answer the door. Leave the doors locked. Rely heavily on your intermediary to only relay facts that are important such as divvying assets. Dr. Harley suggests moving to another city or state during Plan B if your state allows it (some don't for legal separation, particularly if there are children involved). Find somewhere that you have a LOT of emotional support from family and friends & move there if you need to.

Re-read "Surviving An Affair" one more time. Remember John's example from the "John & Sue" story. You CAN do this, and you CAN force the other man to meet all of your wayward wife's needs. You want to only meet those which may be required by law, and nothing else.

Good luck, Fred. We're rooting for your marriage.

What did she mean by guilt over abandoning her kids?

Right now the only thing I'm sure of is that her smoking goes against everything she's tried to do to take care of herself. She took up running (I was and am a runner) and became an avid fan. She watches her weight (she was a fat child), she avoids fried and fatty foods -- she's been very careful about taking care of herself. Now she's puffing up a storm.

Oh, did I mention OM smokes? And him just having had cancer surgery...

Hey, my grandpa had all kinds of cancer surgery and STILL smoked til the day he died.

It's a gripping addiction. Hard to give up.