I do believe that having someone upbeat does make the house a happy home. I used to make a real effort to walk in from milking each morning with a cheery 'good morning family' even on the mornings that were total cr*p and those mornings did seem to go better thsan the ones when I stomped in and just b*tched about how bad milking was.

Well enough blather, and its prolly not MB anyway

Why does it have to be me that keeps the spirit positive; thinks of the work arounds; tries to keep things up beat and out in the open so that they aren't buried and sulked about? It gets sooo tiring.

Harley says we shouldn't trust our spouse; if we live our lives not trusting our spouse then that means we can't feel 100% safe.

he has been less angry since dday than he was for the 3 years before.

I think his concern would be more about him and his anger management and being safe from losing his family because of it.

So you do think he needs some very targettd counselling to deal with this?

IS it something we can work on together?

COnfiding in a friend?

he's still in denial about it

What do I do about this? Give him a chance to physiclly discharge his anger at me? What do i do about this?

J is safe from a repeat of that betrayal

Let me ask you this, ST. If J started shouting and saying exactly how he feels as the result of the affair, what your response be? I'm not saying he threatened you or lost control, but what if he just let things out without worrying about how you felt about what he was saying or the way he was saying it?

Read this quote from you and ask yourself what you would tell a FWW you were trying to help if she said this.

But I'd bet that before the affair he DID feel safe.

And just so you know, I think Dr Harley means that we shouldn't blindly trust our spouse to have our welfare in mind in all things because we all have a Taker as well as a Giver.

Ouch! Take a look at this and how it is worded. Can you see any hint of DJ in this?

Probably the most direct and rapid way to do it.

he's still in denial about it

Physically? Nope. Verbally? Only if you can let him vent without interruption and defense of what happened or offense at what is said.

How does he know this? Can you say this with 100% confidence? Is it contingent on anything besides your resolve? Are the EPs that are in place all that HE needs to know this to be true?

Well here is what I think

What makes me angry is when I think you think more highly of him than me.

When you appear to compare me to him.

When you talk about your time with him as being free and easy and all comfy when all he had to do was to come around and chat to you and drink tea and do the things you could enjoy. Yet when I was home all you wanted me to do was achieve things for the family, and you did not give me any time.

Whenever he had been around, the house was usually in the same state as I had left it or very little had appeared to have changed. I was not angry at the house being a mess more the reason I believed it to be a mess. You were spending too much time with him

Him spending more time with the kids than me and you appearing to turn the kids against me. or not let me spend time with the kids

You blaming your attitude towards me on the shift work, me not taking a job I did not really want because of the state of our marriage, when the reason for me working shifts was because of you wanting to move back to Salisbury. yes i could have said no but could I really? I dont think so.

OK i turned down the xx job a couple of years ago, but at the time you did not object too much, and it did allow you to start your OU degree.

from the start I said he was only after one thing and you denying it and saying he was just teaching you trumpet.

It was obvious it was more than that because you would not leave facebook open, and you started setting up other e-mail addresses. I knew all this but hoped it was just something else, but deep down I knew what was going on.

Your lack of interest in me, full stop. the trumpet came before me, but now I know it was actually him that came before me.

You allowing me to see him in my house and let me say hello and be a friend to him and his wife by taking me around to his place for BBQs.

I knew it was wrong but did not confront you properly - scared of the answer.

Did not feel you cared for me at all, i was just a piggy bank.

He was bloody short and fuggly with a sh*t lifestyle and you preferred him to what we had and what we had worked for, and what I was currently doing the majority of work for (financially. You were doing the family work when he wasn't around I admit)

You made me feel inadequate because I was happy in my job and did not want to progress or change jobs, yet you did not want to get a better paid job or more hours because you did not want to reduce your time with him.

Having said all the above I am not really that angry about it now unless you rub it in my face like the other week and say you miss something about him, but you do not give me the chance to do the things because I think it is a way of punishing me still, if you tried a bit harder to do the things that you did with him i will learn. but it annoys you that I dont so you dont try. I am trying to do it without prompting though.

The affair was over a year ago, nearly now. It is in the past. I dont really know how we got to the stage of me being always abusive too you, yes it was always in me but for it to get to that stage and so prolonged was unexpected I think. It may have been the combination of shift working your lack of care for me considering I was in Salisbury and working shifts mainly for you. The only way I could get a response or attention from you was to shout or be horrible to you, I now know this to be wrong but at the time I could not do anything else.


One final note. I can think about you and him and anger does not enter my head, probably because it has stopped and you are doing a very good job of ensuring it does not happen again, however it is also down to me to not give you a reason to look around again. Which I am trying very hard at. You deserve a good and loving husband. I am doing my best.

Can we now put this to bed!??! I think I only get angry now if I am triggered. If I do get angry about things now adays for things such as house mess things then I think this is because it triggers the feelings that you do not care about me or do not have time for anything apart from yourselves, which is how I felt when you were spending a lot of time with him. I think that your affair was totally selfish - to seek what you wanted from somebody else other than me, because i was not around enough and at the times you wanted, which there was not a lot I could do about.

Please can we stop this now. Not sure I have completely forgiven you for it, but I did have a part to play in turning you away from me which I accept, but it takes two to win and lose marriages.

I want to keep this marriage, and get everything back to how it was apart from my abusive nature and your selfishness towards me. Lets spend some good time together and nail this. We are getting there and i am so looking forward to this Christmas. I am proud of both of us for sticking at it, we both had many reasons to give up and walk away, but for what ever reason we didn't we didn't so lets move forward and look back in few years and wonder what it was all about.

Please stop beating yourself up about it, about why I am not angry. I was, but am over it apart from the triggers, which I will get over sometime.

I think this is because it triggers the feelings that you do not care about me or do not have time for anything apart from yourselves, which is how I felt when you were spending a lot of time with him. I think that your affair was totally selfish -

to seek what you wanted from somebody else other than me, because i was not around enough and at the times you wanted, which there was not a lot I could do about.

BTW Sere - forgot to mention that Spurs game!!

..... I think I did pee my pants.

Are you sure you don't remeber this?

hee hee hee

Perhaps they were actually wearing spurs and that is why the wigan players just stood around like jibbering wrecks watching the ball keep flying into the goal.

does this refresh your memory?