Fred,

Very well...I agree that is best. My suggestion was only IF your lawyer insisted on "being obligated to respond" to your WW somehow. That is an "obligation" that I don't think exists at all, beyond your lawyer's desire to charge you for an unnecessary letter. I'm glad you feel this way--I thought you were suggesting that your lawyer insisted on writing WW back.

When in doubt, DARK IS BEST.

Please tell me I did the right thing...

I had another moment of doubt today. Just as I was going out to shovel the snow off the driveway, the letter carrier arrived with the mail. I shoveled a bit and then brought the mail in.

One of the envelopes was from the USPS. It was a change-of-address confirmation notice.

When WW arrived last Monday to "vacate the premises," her first request was that I allow her to continue to receive her mail here. That was the question that produced the Plan B letter, as one of the provisions in it was that she forward her mail.

Now that she's done it, I wonder if I did the right thing? It seems that things like this (and the requirement that she not come by repeatedly to fetch her belongings) do more to push her away than anything else.

Zelmo will say that it's a good thing, that this marriage shouldn't be saved. Maybe he's right, but it feels like there's still a lack of closure. I'd at least like to give it a try.

Fred,

"Saving the marriage" is not dependent upon nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with where your WW receives her mail. She is in full FOG-mode right now and will do/say a lot of things that hurt you and feel like she is "departing for good". This all routine and you should try (as difficult as it is--I KNOW) to not let her words/actions affect you or throw you off your plan one bit.

WSs, especially when challenged by Plan B letters from the BS, will do a lot of "well, fine! I'm moving on! Who needs you anyway!" kind-of-stuff...been there, done that too. Hard as it is to believe, this stuff is nothing but a stubborn defense mechanism on their part. It has no predictive value.

Whether or not the marriage can be reconciled, does not depend on petty things like moving mail. It requires time, the affair to permanently end, and the WS to come around to owning their actions and choosing a new direction. Its a simple fact of human psychology that we all tend to want most that which we are told we can't or shouldn't have (the "forbidden fruit" analogy from Genesis/Garden of Eden). You can't stop her from having her OM nor should you try in any way. Release control and let her have the affair and own its rottenness in full measure--its the only way for her to possibly experience a change of heart and attitude.

Frankly, why would you want her belongings laying around the house? --a home she no longer is showing interest in or honoring as her marital residence? Keeping and holding her stuff there only:
1) Gives you more visual "reminders" to hurt you and hold you back mentally AND
2) Gives the impression that you are psychologically "hanging onto" or "controlling" her via her physical belongings.

If I were you, if its legally permissible under your separation agreement (don't know why it wouldn't be), I would pack her crap up and insist that she take it away to her "love nest". Or have it delivered. I would give the impression that "her stuff" is nothing you want be bothered with or responsible for!

"You want to go hang with OM? No problem. Here's your stuff...take it!"

"is not dependent upon nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with where your WW receives her mail. She is in full FOG-mode right now"

I agree.

Thank you, SDCW_man. That was helpful.

I spent most of the day moving WW's stuff from the master bedroom to an empty room in the house. I have a whole new closet to divide my stuff into, now (we had separate closets). You're right about not having her stuff around to give me (painful) memories.

Fred,

I know of where I speak. Seeing my WW's belongings hurt me so badly...it was a constant, in-my-face reminder of her betrayal and deceit. Get rid of her crap! Send it to her. Have her pick it up (on the curb or via an intermediary). Don't even offer for her to see you or come into your house in any way. Just rid yourself of all the reminders you legally and easily can. Refuse to have ANY contact with her...DARK!

Moving her mail means NOTHING.
Keeping her stuff means NOTHING.

And on this note...in Iceland try the putrified shark-- but do not ask HOW it is made.

My bro lived ther a few years. The fable says "in Iceland there is a beautiful woman behind every tree"... really it is apparently tree barren, you see miles and miles of nada, to the horizon line.

Oh well

Buy a sweater and learn about the 5 gaited ponies.

bring warm clothes. Those Vikings were not wussies.

Ha! It was colder here today (and snowier) than it was in Reykjavik (in fact, as I type this, it's currently 35 here and 37 there). I think I should take suntan lotion!

I think the point Fred was trying to make was that, if he goes ahead and lets her come get this pile, she'll be telling his lawyer NEXT week which pile she wants to come get then. And then again in another couple weeks. And on and on.

I like the idea of saying 'this one time' I'll agree. For the rest, bring your moving van cos you'll only get one more chance.

I don't want the t/j, but since this is my thread I can say and ask what I want, right?

On ChaiLover's thread, a link to an article on detachment was posted. On that site was a sponsored link on How to Fix Relationships Even If Your Partner Is Unwilling. Learn How In 20 Minutes. Guaranteed.

http://www.relationshipsaver.org/

Has anyone spent the $39.95 (file immediately available for download) to find out what this is all about? Money-back guarantee, they say.

Sounds too good to be true !

New question:

As many of the regulars know, I came here just a week before Plan B (as enforced by the Separation Agreement I probably shouldn't have gotten) and so had very little time to Plan A.

However, it occurs to me that I can still do a little Plan A-ing even though I'm dark.

When D-day occurred, I joined Facebook. Partly because WW had an account and I wanted to find out what I could (learned the identity of OM that way) and also to reach out in a way to keep me from withdrawing into a shell.

OM does not share many of WW's interests. And, since he's recovering from (suspected emasculating) surgery, he's not able to do many of the things WW finds gratifying.

Because WW and I -do- share many of the same interests, I find I can post my status on Facebook and include those interests.

For example, today I ran in a local 10K race that WW and I did annually for many years (I took second place in my age group, which came as a surprise to me!). Afterwards, I went to the local VFD where they hold a monthly AYCE pancake breakfast, another activity WW and I always did together.

So I posted a very brief "status" message about the run, the shirt, and the breakfast. No hints, subtle messages or sly winks, just "this is what I did today."

I know WW checks Facebook because I can see when she's online (via the chat window). She has me listed as a friend, so my status updates appear (with everyone else's) on the "news feed."

So, is this "Plan A-ing?" Should I desist from posting things that might make her think, "gee, OM doesn't do this, and I really enjoy doing this..."

No, no, this is perfect! Since you're in Plan B she's seeing what it's like without you.

You shouldn't put your interests on hold and whatnot just because she's not there to share.

I would print this out and keep it readily available at all times.

NO NO NO... what's that? I wasn't clear? NO NO NO

She needs to get the full impact of having NO NEWS about YOU... For Plan B to fully work it needs time. Time to give her the experience of what life is going to be like WITHOUT you.

No facebook, no updates about what you are doing. Then she doesn't have to wonder. You are feeding her still and that's the WRONG thing to do.

I have no intention of putting my plans on hold. Next weekend is the Jingle Bell Run. During our early dating period (before she had even started running), I told her of this race and even showed her my running shoes (I retired them after this race) that still had the bells attached.

The next year we ran it and had a blast! It was cold, blowing and snowing. The roads were slick and one would think everyone had lost their minds (what with wearing Santa and reindeer hats, bells a-jingling, etc.). We both relished that run, stopped in a coffee shop for a hot cup and conversation, and it has long been a fond memory to us both.

The Jingle Bell Run itself was postponed for a few years (lack of sponsorship, I think), but it's back. And I'm already registered!

You can BET I'm posting on Facebook about it afterwards!

I think the FB updates could be a good part of Plan B.

It shows her that you don't need her there to have fun doing what you love to do.

No Plan Aing during Plan B.

I completely disagree with this. STAY DARK.... Take yourself out of the equation or go back to Plan A and work it.

By posting she is getting a need met and she won't have to change.

Someone else, please help explain why this is a BAD IDEA... I can't say the right words.

I don't disagree with people very often, and I'm open to being over ruled but this is a BAD IDEA.

Plan B is entirely removing yourself from the situation and being DARK. Not giving the wayward any idea of what's happening on your side. Then they have to wonder. Why would you want her to know. Let her wonder.

If WW isn't getting her needs filled by OM, why not show her that H (me) is still doing the things that she enjoyed doing? Since I'm not communicating with her, but just posting my status to my friends (something I'd do anyway), if she happens to read it, wouldn't that make her compare her current sitch to the one she left?