ML, I'm confused. In my Plan B letter I stated that the next time she came to the house she should bring a moving van. If I fold and give her what she's asking for, aren't I exposing myself as weak and able to be manipulated? Isn't that what she's trying to do?

I thought one of the purposes of Plan B was to make the A difficult by exposing to the WS and OP the false reality of the A.

Fred, wouldn't you agree that she has a right to her stuff? Why would you want to withhold that from her? The method she uses to get it should be her decision as long as it does not involve her coming in the house. I can't think of a single good reason to withhold her possessions from her unless the goal is to just make her mad for no reason. It doesn't help you in any way to make things unneccessarily difficult for her. Plan B is never about not allowing a WS to have their stuff.

On the other hand, it would be gracious of you to make sure she gets the things she needs.

Fred, Plan B is not supposed to be about punishment. It is supposed to be about self protection. It does not harm you in any way to box up her possessions and take them somewhere for her.

ML, according to our Separation Agreement, she has six months in which to retrieve her things. I have no desire to withhold anything from her, but I wrote in my Plan B letterSo, while I think giving her the things she's requested is the "loving" thing to do, I also wonder if it isn't a violation of the boundaries I set for myself, and sends her the message that she can manipulate me?

Also, since the NC rule forbids my contacting her, I would have to ask my attorney to contact her. I suppose I could ask a mutual friend to relay the message to her, but I've tried to keep them from getting mixed up in this.

We're having the first snow of the season today. I doubt anyone is going anywhere to fetch a few "comfort items" anyway...

Fred, I understand you don't want to be inconvenienced by multiple requests, so maybe you could have a friend ask her to make arrangements to get it all, but in the meantime, you are willing to box up the requested items THIS ONE TIME because you do want to be accommodating.

Thanks, ML. This seems like the right solution. I will ask that she make a list of things she wants -- this one time only -- and will accommodate her by boxing it up and leaving it outside for her to pick up.

No LB there, and no break of NC.

Gosh, I love this place. And I love you folks (who are obviously more level-headed than I).

Thanks for listening, Fred. I do understand that you don't want to be hit with never ending requests for this and that. That makes perfect sense.

Fred,

Echoing the other vets here, I would not bother contacting the OM.

He doesn't give a rat's behind about your feelings, your marriage, or "what's right" (quite obviously!) or he wouldn't be screwing around with a married woman. Contacting him will only hurt you and make you look needy and "still in pursuit" to your WW (you can bet OM will tell her about your contact with him).

Don't bother--noting productive can come of it. Sorry....I know you want to vent at that evil individual, just don't waste your energy.

Yes, I thought that might be the case.

Once again, I'm having a bit of a tough day. It's snowing outside, which limits the things I can do and places I can go. I decided to move her things from the closet in our master bedroom to one of the empty rooms.

Coming across a number of articles of clothing, I remember her and how she looked wearing them. I know this is to be expected, but it's still a bit wracking on the ol' emotional system.

Then I went to Facebook to see if my daughter was online and saw that WW was. I logged off in a hurry.

I can't escape the reminders. I keep telling myself that I'll get through this, but I look at all the things she left behind to go fulfill her fantasy, and I'm saddened all over again.

I thought of going to a movie, but I don't want the fuss of driving on unplowed streets and having to wipe the snow off my car.

So, I'll just keep moving things and coming here during breaks...

Fred,

Regarding the lawyer stuff, I would ignore it. Ignoring her is far more effective than rebutting her arguements/requests logically (I found this out the hard way myself). Even the stuff you "agree with"--just comply as you would have anyway without ever acknowledging that you are doing so or are affected by the contact she made with your attorney.

She asked you to stop writing exposure letters, identify all parties to whom you have done so, apologize for them, and to cease "having her followed" or making her feel financial repercussions. I agree that you shouldn't act vindictively, illegally, or "in pursuit" of her but...

Did you notice how many of her "request items" had something to do with affair-exposure??? Waywards, esp. WWs IMHO, absolutely LOATHE being exposed for their trampy and despicable behavior! I am always amazed how often these people will (privately) claim to be "proud", "so happy", or "have found their true soulmate" regarding their affair, but will react vengefully, accusatorily, and belligerently toward anyone who tells the truth and holds up a mirror for all the world to see!

Hmmmm....I thought your affair was so "special" and "inspirational"? Nonsense! People who truly are honored by and proud of their relationship DON'T try to squelch or "gag-order" its revelation!

Do what you should (as you stated) but don't offer her anything and certainly don't apologize for TELLING THE TRUTH. If she doesn't like the truth, then she shouldn't be living as she is...

Fred,

I think your lawyer is blowing smoke to churn fees! Why would your atty be "obligated" to respond to your WW? There is no legal obligation that I am aware of! Your WW's requests are NOT court-mandated nor do they even come from another atty...

I would have your lawyer simply say (once and for all):

"WW, Fred has sent you a Plan B letter (another copy to you enclosed) and there is a separation agreement in place. There is nothing else to add. My client has done nothing illegal nor will he. Please refer to the documents above for any personal questions you may have from now on."

Even if one could throw snowballs in Hades, there's no way I'm writing any such tripe. I'm staying silent on all of her silly "demands" (obviously they know the OMW got a letter -- I wonder how) and no doubt they've been trying to "spin" it. Whether or not others believe them or not is beyond my control.

It surprises me that some of "our" friends continue to treat her as if nothing were amiss. I know that they too, are free to behave as they wish, but it seems that some people will ignore bad behavior simply to "be nice."

They are not friends. They are the kind of "friends" who dumped most of us alcoholics when we stopped drinking. Remember those "friends?"

Good riddance!

Yeah, I know. It's sad that these are A.A. "friends." One of them is someone I've known since Day One. Tells me to my face that he's behind me 100%. Then goes and leads a meeting for her.

I know A.A. is about singleness of purpose. Still...

Time for the Serenity Prayer...

Yep, I had "friends" like that, as well, Fred. These spineless people are no lnger my friends.
SDCW is right. It makes no sense that your lawyer is claiming an obligation to respond. Thus is not a discovery demand or any othe court mandated disclosure. Your L is free to ignore the letter, as are you.

And ignore we shall. It wasn't a letter, but a call to my attorney, anyway. And my attorney emailed me late yesterday saying she didn't get my WW's telephone number.

So, no response has been issued. I told my attorney the only response I was willing to make to WW was that details for picking up her belongings were in my (Plan B) letter to her.

I am reconsidering (see earlier posts), and may accommodate my WW to the tune of ONE BOX of items that she provide in a list. I will box the stuff up and leave it outside the house for WW to pick up.

Stick a rotten mackeral carcass in the bottom of the box, Fred.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH WW SHOES?

ARE YOU GOING TO WEAR THEM?

It's a box of stuff.

Be the bigger man here. Drop them off at her parents house.

Are you that broke?

Then mail, UPS, etc, that crap to WW.

WW want to play games. If you sent all her stuff then she can't play the I want my stuff game.

Every way you can stop her from playing a game you take power away from her.

Take the power.

Ditto. You are the reasonable one. No point in appearing vindictive.