You say:
Where do you see I am nagging him? I dont see it.
And you say:
She does not have to criticize him or judge him in any way.

Something to think about. fwiw, I imagine nearly every man on earth thinks his wife nags. Just like staying single is what boys talk about, getting stuck with a nagging wife is also what boys talk about.

As for all the stuff you just described...all fine and good. IF those were the things that HE told YOU he wanted.

Did he?

Here at MB, we talk a lot about meeting ENs. How, you can meet 25 different ENs, beat your brains out meeting all those ENs. But if they aren't your SPOUSE'S ENs - the ones HE would choose, the things HE wants - you are wasting your time.

That is why I said that you have to figure out what HE wants.

Just being the perfect wife will most likely not be enough for him. He is - obviously - seeking something else. Or he would be home with his perfect wife.

Figure out what it is.

btw, I am not criticizing you. I am explaining how people think, and how his thoughts guide him. And how your thoughts guide you.

fwiw, if you were truly stubborn, you would be truly fighting for him. You would be telling his friends and family that you are fighting for your marriage. You would be telling this OW to keep her slimy paws off your man. You would be stroking his ego by FIGHTING for him in real life, not just sitting at home, looking pretty, acting perfect, waiting for him to notice. He takes you for granted, lost. That can't compete with ego stroking, crazy SF, and the thrill of the hunt. Not with someone so thinks life is passing him by.

Yes, I can see your point and if your H is ready to leave he will, no matter what. And if he will not leave now, he will in a few years if you do not go thru a good R. That is what happened to me. My H wanted to leave way before I told everybody and did leave before I told everybody.
Now that I did tell everybody, it is very possible that my H is doing exactly that: prove us all wrong and put up with the OW even when things between them get rocky (and they will at some point). Right now things between them are bliss. And it will last as they do not live together.
This is my H second A and what you are telling me now about your H and you reminds me of my behaviour after my H first A.
Ultimately if you do not go thru a good R he will cheat again and again.
Sure:It would be great if you could figure out what he wants, but that is impossible so I have to disagree that we can actually know what another wants. MB can help but if he does not want to...you can't make him. He told you what he wants. He wants to be able to make you happy and he knows your behaviour now is only crisis management. How can he trust you will not turn back into the old you once he tells you he loves you?
I don't know what to say. Looking back I should have let my H go after his first A because he did nothing to R.
If your H is not willing to do both IC and MC then it is very possible that you M would be doomed, so you might very well let him go now, let him work thru his issues and get some peace of mind for yourself.
What you are doing now is very stressful and difficult, I know because I went thru it twice. They are removed and in love with someone else. Put yourself in that situation...you are so in love with H and now you have to fall out of love. That is what he has to do about OW. And romantic love is intense and passionate.
I truly think that the A has to die a natural death if the WS is not willing to do IC and MC to recover. I would tell him to move out. He is also damaging to you D.
I do not want to scare you, but I have been thru all of it and it is sheer misery when WS does not want to participate in R and he is not sure about what he needs, wants. Your obsession with him is just that. Obsession. Let him go and he will come back if he decides that family is what matters to him. We can't make people do things. What you fight you strenghten. Fight the A and you will make it stronger. What you let go will create space for new things and people in your life. Let him go and be prepared for a miracle.
blessing

Yes I did say that about she does not have to criticize or judge him in any way. I am speaking about what he is thinking. I on the other hand represent the responsibility that he has for a family.... bills, mortgage, college. etc. She is just for fun! All for himself. He doesnt have to impress her or be something "better". He actually told me that. She wants him even though she knows he has nothing to give her.

I think this is fighting for him. I am not so much in CRISIS MODe. I am trying to get out of the depression I was in and be who I was before. My depression was from other things beside the A that maybe he was worried about too and I expected him to take on and fix for me. When in fact there is no fix. It is just LIFE.

Print this out and READ IT! You are hurting so bad. Please, expose this and end the abuse before you go bonkers..DUDE

I dont know what to say at this point. After reading all this again and again I am so confused regarding this forum. Some of you seem to thing my M is already over and I should just expose this to the world so I can "wake him up" and get everyone on his butt about what he has done. What have I got to lose?

Most of what I have read outside this forum has said treat him with TLC and put away any resentment and my own needs. GIve him all I have and show him what he has already. I have know him for 25 years. I know what he needs and what I have neglected to give him. That is over.

I understand how the excitement may lure some to an A. I think this A for him made him sad. I dont think it is exciting at all for him. Thats why he almost left. He couldnt stand the deceit. He felt that I wouldnt care. I did act like I wouldnt care and had been acting that way for a long time. I know that hurt him. I do care and I think he is realizing that.

I would like to invite my H to attend weekend marraige retreat. I am not going to ask him to go just yet. If things go as well as they have this week for a few weeks I will look for one. We have never done anything like that and I think it will be good for us.

For those that have said welcome to DIVORCE I think you are wrong. If he wanted a Divorce he would already be gone.

Hello Lost,

I am sorry that you find yourself here. It is a sad place to be but it will help you to save your M. Many have been saved. I believe that you are misinterpreting the advice that you have been given. What you need is the Carrot and the Stick of Plan A. You are only employing the carrot. That may lead to a false recovery or additional A down the road. All immoral acts have consequences. You are trying to save your H from his. Many here have made that mistake, myself included.

You are blindly following your gut instincts based on your knowledge of your H for many years. That no longer applies. You are dealing with an alien. The good people here have the benefit of the observation of hundreds of heart breaking A's over their many years here, not to mention their own experience. Yours is NOT different. They are your last best chance at saving your M. Ignore them at your own peril.

God's Blessings,

Say

lost, you aren't reading this all correctly. You are mixing and matching different things, ok?

We DON'T think your marriage is over. Far from it. IF you follow the MB method - to expose the affair so that it is no longer fun and sneaky and exciting and so that his family and friends tell him how disappointed they are in him...suddenly having an affair isn't quite as glamorous as it was just a day before. Suddenly he starts to question whether he CAN be happy with OW, especially since (hopefully) his family and friends have told him that they will NOT welcome her into their family.

Waywards build up this fantasy in their minds that everyone will just be ok with it all. Oh, you're happy now with OW? Ok. We don't ever have to speak to lost any more; that's fine. We'll figure out how to help you get the kids over losing their mom and replacing her.

Sometimes that happens. Often, it doesn't. Often, family, friends, and priest will give him a talking to, so that he wakes up and asks himself what he's doing. Suddenly it just may NOT work out. Maybe he'd better re-evaluate.

THAT is why you expose. Not to punish him after the marriage is over.

Have you read the articles here? It doesn't seem like you have. Please go to the link that says How to Survive Infidelity. Meeting needs right now is pointless when he is fogged over with his OW addiction. All that does is make it all the more ego-stroking, to see two women fighting over him.

You meet his needs AFTER you expose. AFTER they can no longer sneak around since everyone now knows what they're doing. THEN you Plan A like crazy. But it's pointless if you don't shine light on the affair.

Also, if you read about the Harleys who founded this place, you'll see that he/they have counseled thousands of couples dealing with infidelity. Thousands. THAT is from which Harley drew this method. He has studied it in those thousands of cases, what works and what doesn't. In 90% of the successes - where the WS gave up the affair - the BS exposed the affair. That is why it is so important.

Also, this:
you would also know is fallacy if you read the material, because he is getting SOME of his needs met by OW, and SOME of his needs met by you. He LOVES that! What man wouldn't? WHY would he ever want to divorce, when he gets you fawning all over him - yet accepting his affair - and her providing him all kinds of kinky, exciting SF?

If you let him, he will continue this for the rest of your lives. Because it WORKS for him. He may dump this OW, but he will just go out and look for a new one. Because he suffered no consequences. Only, next time, he'll be bolder. "Hey, lost didn't mind; heck, she even upped the ante and made it more fun; she must LIKE it this way."

And, over time, your self-esteem will erode away, year by year, day by day, minute by minute, until you (most likely) just try to kill yourself because you see no other way out. HE will never stop with the other women, HE knows you will never leave because you're 'too scared to let go.' You have no other options but to die.

If you listen to MB, we can help you stop that route.

This makes sense and I am listening. Maybe my self-esteem is already gone. I am sure it is severely damaged. How could it no be. Of ocurse, it is.

I just have a hard time accepting this. It is as if it is not a reality!

Facts are facts and he cannot be having a physical secual affair with her. There has been no time for it. Of course, that doesnt mean he hasnt thought about it. I am sure he has.

I stopped posting on this thread because I couldn't bear to keep watching the train wreck, but I've got to comment: cat is completely correct, lost. Completely. You are supplying part of his needs, OW supplies the rest. And it's a happy threesome. I tried to mention a similar situation, by noting an old acquaintance whose BW did the same thing you're doing. And he ended up moving the OW into their house! Yessiree, bob, his BW was that nice, giving him her all and accomodating his A. Yeah, yeah, he was a great guy, pillar of the community, blah blah blah. My point being that he wasn't a three-headed monster. So it can happen to someone who's considered to be a 'great' guy. I'm not saying your H is going to move OW in. But can you see how the threesome relationship that he is in can become the norm for him? Why not? He's got two women meeting his needs!

You're going to see a lot of sites that advocate falling all over yourself to get your H back. A lot of those sites almost blame the BS by default: by telling you what you have to be in order to "make" your H see the light. It doesn't work that way in most cases. What you're seeing on this site is something a little different: an actual PLAN to end the A and restore your M. At times it will seem like the advice you're getting completely conflicts with what you think you should do. That's because you're too close to your H (who is no longer your H, by the way, but an alien) and can't see it. And because you're thinking in a normal way. But these are NOT normal times, lost.

The advice you're being given on here is from people who have done it the MB way and have RESTORED THEIR MARRIAGES, in many/most cases better than their M ever was before. Isn't that what you want?

Heck, even former waywards are on here, advocating the same thing. Read. Learn. Implement. Restore your marriage.

Please expose this and end it. You are going to be an emotional wreck if you don't. This is your life we are talking about here..DUDE

First, I would bet you big money he HAS found time for it, unless you work by his side all day long. People get it on in closets, cars, truck stop bathrooms, offices...anywhere there's a wall separating them from others. It only takes 5 minutes on the way home. You are kidding yourself, because you want to keep the 'old' image of him. But right now he is NOT the old him; he is a drug addict, high on the chemicals of sneaking around on you.

Second, according to research, men think about SF at least 3 or 4 times an hour. An hour! Every hour! To downplay the significance of wanting SF and figuring out ways to GET SF is to delude yourself.

Where there's a will there's a way. Count on it. I wish I had a penny for every BS who could swear on their mother's grave that their S could never cheat on them because they were always around, their time could be accounted for, etc...and then the BS is presented with solid evidence or a confession, and the wheels are off the wagon.
Come to think of it, I was one of those spouses. My FWH was with me every weekend, every evening, whenever he wasn't at work...then it came out that he would leave work for periods of time, skip meetings that I knew he not only was supposed to attend for his job but was also in charge of, leave early from events I'd already had confirmation he was at...oh, yeah. Where there's a will...

So if he is having s with her I dont want him anymore. He hasnt convinced me he isnt and it seems this points to more than likely he is. In such case, he is having s with us both which is disgusting to me. If I find this out to be true I dont know if I could ever look at him again. Let alone stay married to him.

The job he has would probably prevent him from participating in what you decribed above but I guess when there is a will there is a way. So I wont ignore the fact it could e true.

All this has been enlightening to say the least. I want to give him room to "wake up" but I cant if I think he is sleeping with her. Telling his friends or family wont stop him if he is doing what you described above. I strongly feel that is the wrong thing to do, I am sorry if you guys cant get past that.

I will stop wasting you time and not do this anymore. I hope you think about advising people to expose to everyone before you know all the facts. I guess people have to act as they see fit but people are very vulnerable in this situation and want someone to tell them what to do. Although I apreciate the efforts if thats all you got thanks anyway.

L&F, this is a very understandable position, and I don't fault you for it one bit. So the bottom line now is, do you want to try to save the M or not? If not, then it's best you cut the line as soon as possible. On the other hand, if you think your M can be rebuilt, then listen to the advice given here. It's more valuable than diamonds and gold combined!

This is your boundary, and no one is going to tell you should believe otherwise.

L&F, the people here advise as they do because their efforts are designed to help people recover their M. Doing so requires immediate, resolute action. If your choice is that you don't want to recover, that's your choice. I respect your choice, and so will everyone here.

You are hurting, I get that. The person you love so deerly is hurting you/himself/your family, yet you, out of instinct of "Do no harm" THINK you are protecting him and his reputation. EXPOSURE is the most likely way to end his A. He actually needs you right now and you are failing him. He is about to blow up his life and his family because he is BONKERS in some fantasy love affair. He is totally drunk and needs his loving, caring, beautiful wife to take the keys from him. He will so appreciate this a year or two down the road if you take control of the situation and blow this A up. EXPOSE TO EVERYONE RIGHT NOW!! You will feel so good about it. I promise you! This will save your M and your life! DUDE

Lost, I've been following your thread...

Not one person here would blame you, the BS, for wanting out of your M. Infidelity gives us BS's a "get out of marriage free card" if we choose to use it. This is 100% your choice, there's not a thing any of us could say to sway you one way or the other, nor should we try.

The advice you've been getting regarding exposure is based upon MARRIAGE BUILDER'S principals, that is why we're supporting it; we're all on a MARRIAGE BUILDER'S website!

I get that you are hurting, I get that you want to save your marriage, but when you're on a MB website, you're going to get MB advice. It is what it is.

If you'd like other types of advice, then you might want to visit other websites.


We would love to see you and help you save your marriage, but ultimately the steps you take or don't take are completely up to you.

Maybe this approach isn't what you're comfortable with, and that's okay... but then, why are you *here*?

Lost, advising exposure isn't something we can't "get past"- it's the thing that WORKS. Why would we try to avoid something that works?? Of course people are vulnerable in this situation - ask all of the BSs on here. We can all tell your our stories of vulnerability. You're making it sound like we're a bunch of rubes who've never been there, and who are dispensing snake-oil wisdom without the benefit of knowing whether it works. And that's wrong.

It isn't a matter of wasting our time, here. If you don't intend to follow MB priciples you're pretty much wasting your time.

I do wish you well, and I do hope everything turns out well for you. You seem like such a nice person. Good luck!

BTW, my DH's infidelity was exposed, and you know what? He has learned who his real friends are and we have learned who are true friends to our M.

How many people have you heard of that saved their M's by your method? How many of those people have BETTER M's? How many just went back to status quo?