Hey opt (you too SoL) - count me in on the 'support group'. You guys have been there for me, and I'll do whatever I can for you.

gg,
sorry, I wasn't very clear. They're going to Antarctica. Her Dad has cancer and he's checking off a bucket list. He's taking WW, DS(13), and his fiance (who he dated for years while his wife was dying of emphasyma!). Not a lot of family support against infidelity, but the cell phone won't be a factor after about Dec 28th.

I'm hoping the two week trip serves as a bit of WD from her little fantasy and break up some of the fog.

opt

You'll do great - piece of cake compared to what you've been through serving your country.

I just got one of those chickens that has an automatic thermometer that pops up when it's done (directions are usually on it - or refer to a basic cookbook). All you have to do is keep an eye on it (and plan to be around for a couple hours).
Steam some vegetables (broccoli's easy - buy a steamer if you don't have one, it's like a mesh basket you put in the bottom of the pan with a half cup of water) and drop a bunch of cheese that you lovingly grated while the chicken was baking -(15 min prep time total on the greens).
Peel and cut some potatoes , boil them and put in a mixing bowl when soft, mix with a beater along with a bunch of butter and sour cream (and some bacon bits that you make ahead of time).

I never really cooked before either. If I can do it, you can too.
You'll be a home town hero in more ways than one!

Opt

How come you aren't going??

It's a pretty serious trip. Not just a vacation but somewhat of an expedition, including crossing one of the toughest bodies of water in the world (can't recall the geography right now); daughter 8 a little too young for it and the expense was also restrictive. FIL threw it out in front of us a few months ago and it was booked - we felt like the experience for DS(13) was potentially too important to pass up.

Not much more to it than that. Me and daughter will have a good bonding time. Then, my sister is coming out to visit for a week; a very welcome visit as she has been real supportive to me through all this. My immediate family is all several states away.

Optimism

Not sure where I�m at right now except that I�m pulling off a pretty good plan A. But feeling a little defeated right now b/c I found a text on WW�s phone from OM dated yesterday. He indicated that they hadn�t had any communication, but I don�t really believe it; either way just that the text came in is problematic enough. I didn�t say anything. I am also discouraged b/c last week on Wednesday she got a slew of texts and then went back to sleeping with the secret phone again (my recon can only tell me how many texts, not where they�re from � so I have to have access the phone to compare records and see if she�s deleted any or, as in today�s case, forgot to delete any).

We also talked a little about SH last night. A very little. I told her I have an appointment set for Wednesday am to speak with him again (trying to disclose all plans as independent behavior has been a huge LB in the marriage). I had made the appointment on the grounds that the only thing she had stated about her conversation with him is that he wanted to talk to me again. Here�s what got me: she really hemmed and hawed about the expense and something like �I just don�t see what it�s going to do for us,� you know, stuff like is the benefit worth the expense?

It�s like she wants the marriage to fail!!

On the plus side.
A couple of things I haven�t mentioned in previous posts. Plan A has given me the strength to stay out of some VERY familiar damaging scripts.
On Saturday we were wrapping presents together (almost like undivided attention, a step in the right direction). She was all kinds of down and started in with some depressing statements �Do you suppose I am just meant to be alone?� [it�s like she�s trying to bait me into a negative conversation � which previously would have worked very well and it would have ruined the day]
Later that day I was preparing dinner for 6 adults and 3 kids. It was quite tense but I had everything planned to the letter. She again seemed to take opportunities to get me into a fight, like in the old days. But I simply remained in control and stayed strong even in the tense atmosphere. [is she trying to TEST my resolve?] BTW, not one �thank you� or �good dinner� �.I love it!
Last night she made a nice family dinner and then seemed like she was trying to sabotage it by inviting the neighbor girl (my son�s friend). I was immediately disappointed considering that we need family time right now, and I know she knows that. Ultimately she didn�t stay, but the atmosphere was SO tense it was palpable. It�s like she was itching to have a blow out over dinner. Later she said she was tense about some phone calls to make about daughter�s school Christmas party (wow!). Anyway, again I was able to barely side-step it all by just not playing into it. [But it�s so hard when she seems to be working AGAINST happiness and serenity.]
Is this normal Wayward Behavior also???


Side note:
Plus plus: This am I started the laundry and she started in with there not being �enough water for all the showers.� In the old days, my taker would have pitched a fit whining and crying about how I was just trying to get the work done (that she could have done yesterday while she was home all day); but not anymore � MB has taught me to stay away from that LB - DJ�s and AO�s all up in it! Thanks MB

Optimism

Stay with it, opt. There are some good signs there. Yes, you're getting a lot of fog-talk and I know that's it's extremely difficult to take all that crap, but in the end you're better off.

This is important - I don't believe that she wants the marriage to fail! Being married to you is an important part of her fantasy life. You just have to continue to show her that it's the BEST PART of her life, and the other piece - the EA - is getting in the way and has got to stop.

I'm not sure if her behavior is normal or not, maybe the Vets can chime in there, but I can tell you that it mirrors what my WW is saying/doing.

I am also doing backflips to take care of domestic and family responsibilities all with zero appreciation or even acknowledgement. I know how hard and frustrating it is. I keep hoping that there will be an "ah-ha" moment when WW will suddenly see what I am and have been doing.

I am having a problem with "not expecting anything" from WW too.

You are doing a great Plan A. Keep it up.

I think this may have been mentioned at the start of this thread, but since I haven't heard you say anything about it I have to ask...

Have you considered that you won't make much progress until you guys don't live on the same street as OM? That him living right there will keep her triggered and foggy?

That's right Linus. I've read this thought in other threads and I have not been good about applying it to my own situation. Thanks for mentioning it and thanks for the encouragement.

I hope you'll continue to keep us posted on your recovery!

Opti

Thanks SOL.
Trying to fight the good fight. Along side ya in many ways.
Opt

I think we all get somewhat blinded to our own situation. Maybe hoping our waywards are somewhat different than others.

Worth repeating!

You say "money is NEVER an issue if it is spent to keep our children's family together." Hard to argue that logic.

Susie, thanks so much for checking back in. And thanks for the encouragement on my plan A.
Believe you me, I completely understand (and have since the beginning) the magnitude of having posom living next door. I just have no reasonable means of addressing it (excuse the pun), since WW has yet to fully acknowledge (at least openly) that she ever did anything wrong! In her mind the M is failing due to issues completely unrelated to the "inappropriate emotional relationship" (the closest she has come to calling it what it is: adultry). Since we both own the home, anything I do that moves toward moving will be independent behavior as she is not interested in selling the house right now (although I could pursue it further on grounds of just improving quality of life...).
There is some talk of posom moving out, but I'm not counting on any of that right now.

What I'm focusing on right now is consistently putting my best foot forward with plan A; and making long-standing changes in my behavior (and ultimately my character). I feel her testing me (even if subconsciously) is ultimately going to reveal to her that I'm in this for the long hual. I've identified my tendency to LB (all over the place) and am committed to eliminating that flaw in my character, not just for her but for the kids and mostly me. This is what I can control right now.

I also think my plan A might have to be longer than average because I spent so many years using destructive scripts, un-doing good deeds with LB's, and allowing overactive Taker to reign (strangely this is mostly at home...in public people literally think I'm saintlike). Truthfully, I need to prove to myself for a good amount of time that I can be a better person. I feel that if I haven't proved it to myself, I most certainly can't expect WW to trust that those demons have been expelled.

I will talk to Steve again bright and early tomorrow. I have a list of questions to ask him.
e.g.
-how can I address the proximity to OM issue
-how can I get her away from the secret cell phone (without LB of IB)
-what can he tell me about his conversation with her
-can I plan B without direct evidence of overt A continuing
-how does he view the 2 weeks she will spend away and isolated (possibly helpful or not)
among others


If anyone has questions they think I should add to my list, I am all ears!

Optimism

Hi Opt,
Just catching up with your thread. You sure are growing by leaps and bounds. Nice to see.

I think catperson gave a fantastic response for when WW complains about "wasting" money on sessions with Steve. I'd add that to my list of things to ask him, though. I guarantee he's got lots of experience with reluctant spouses and money objections are a no-brainer way for the wayward to resist.

I bet you dollars to doughnuts I know why your wife is not thanking you for the dinner, why she's nagging you about the water, picking fights, simmering on the verge of exploding while the neighbor girl is over, and so forth. She has made up her mind that OM is dreamy and life with you is insufferable. Her self talk right now is all about how irritating you are, but your Plan A is making it hard for her to continue in this vein. She's irritable and ready to blow up or pick a fight simply so she can soothe herself by saying "See, this was just a temporary act. He's an intolerable [censored]."

It all means your Plan A is working.

Regarding getting away from OM... you can't sell the house without committing a huge IB lovebuster... but if you were to get an attractive job offer from some place kind of far away, that would make it necessary for you to move. Just sayin'. I know jobs aren't exactly falling out of trees right now but it wouldn't hurt to put out some feelers.

OK, it sounds like you are on the right track.

Just one thing to add....are you absolutely certain there is NO WAY you can go on this trip with your W??? I see it as such a huge great opportunity to reach your W, seeing as you two will be away from OM...

Thanks TH for the encouragement. There's been so much happening it's like I've become very adept in some areas but totally missed the boat on what should have been obvious. I'm lucky to be in a field that just might offer attractive options on the job front. I will definitely start looking around.

We had counseling tonight and WW sounded like she had made a little change in outlook. She actually used the term "fog" (although she isn't familiar enough with MB to have been applying it in that way). She said she felt like a "fog was lifting"
She also stated that she has suddenly developed some Christmas spirit and realized how incredibly selfish she has been for the past several weeks. These statement I think might have been influenced by her conversation with Steve, even if she doesn't realize it or wouldn't admit it openly.

I found some encouragement in those statements but I don't consider her trustworthy enough. There has really not a committment to NC or progressing the M. I need actions, not words.

But there were actions also: she has volunteered to help out at the church (lucky my computer didn't explode just now) on Friday night. This would have been the only real night she could have gone out to sew her oats. If she goes through with it, that would be one action that I'd like to see repeated.
Do you think I should offer to do it with her, or maybe this is something she needs to explore on her own, as an empowerment thing...

Sticking with plan A. Anxious to talk to SH tomorrow am.

Opt

You know how stupid I feel that I never really thought about it like that? When the trip was presented it was just them and that was that. Unfortunately, it is a prohibitively expensive endeavor and quite impossible for us to join them. Maybe a missed opportunity, but I plan to make the best of it. Even considering doing some remodeling that she would not want to be around for (redoing some hardwood floors- the stink should be gone by the time they return).

I do appreciate the input. I would hope that if it had been a domestic trip, I would have noticed the possiblity for bonding and undivided attention time. Maybe as the M develops I'll learn to look at things differently. If we get to where I'm hoping we'll have a better M than ever before and I would expect the thought of being away from her for 2 weeks will hit me much differently.

I just remembered in counseling she said something else that caught my attention. Speaking of our comfort level with each other: "we're not there, YET"

Sticking with plan A for now.

Any thoughts on this: I'll get a few free minutes with my W. And I'm trying to build that time up, not to mention make it valuable and meaningful; listening, responding, and concentrating on giving my full attention. Invariably one of the kids will inturrupt and completely kill the moment. The opportunity to make a LD is then fading away. I actually get angry inside. How can I let the kids know we are not to be inturrupted when we're talking quietly without freaking them out or making it seem even more tense in the house than it already is at times?

Thanks again SQ and others for input and concern.

Opt

Got it Cat. That's purrfect.

Sounds better than "Do you know how much divorce costs!!?"

Your kids are plenty old enough to understand what it means to build a marriage up. Just be honest with them. "This is a time when I could really use some extra minutes here and there to make brownie points with your mom; I want to make her fall in love with me all over again. So can I count on you guys to help me? If you ever see me and mom together, give us a few minutes alone, so I can show her how amazing I am, ok?"