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At whatever point this A ends, your WH will have a better chance to be a good father again, all thought of R aside.
Anything that might end the A should be viewed in that light: it's still best for the girls.
I'm so sorry you're still going through this.
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.
~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Tully,
I hear what you're saying and it is in many ways a reflection of what my ex use to say regarding why the kids should be with her more than with me.
The fact is that kids are the victims in this no matter which way it goes. They didn't ask for any of this. I hear what you're saying about a "lack of stability" in an arrangement where they live in different homes, but I can tell you that in practicality, my kids are just fine with it. They stay with mom on weekdays and spend most weekends with me. They see it as having two homes and we have settled into a routine and stability. THAT is better for them than not seeing their parents.
The damage to the kids comes from the fighting and the chaos. You can't expect a father to want to stay engaged in the kid's lives when he's reduced to just being a paycheck and someone who they see on occasion.
I get my kids the entire summer and see them almost weekly. The kids see my home as much as home as they see mom's place as home.
My ex was the wayward. I feel very strongly that such a thing should be a factor in custody fights, but in the end the kids forgive and value their relationship with their parent more than they do the animosity from a breakup.
I've dealt with it both as a parent and as a child. My father's infidelity broke up my family. I was angry with him for years about it and our relationship was very strained. I have forgiven him and have a healthy relationship with him now (it helped that the OW and he divorced).
My point is that your argument of stability is one heard a million times over by judges. The relationship with the other parent is valued higher than any "stability" that you argue comes from staying in one spot with one parent they see all the time and one that they rarely see. Your argument is a very common one made by moms and I'm one of the fathers who has fought hard to make sure I'm not relegated to being a paycheck.
Every situation is different, but in the end the judges don't care about why the marriage broke up. They approach things from the standpoint that both parties contributed to the breakup of the marriage (right or wrong) and they seek ways to keep both parents involved with the kids. That's the reality here in America, anyways. Unless your H shows dis-interest and an abusive past then they more often than not give him the benefit of the doubt about being a parent.
What I'm telling you is the reality of how they see things. PSUB and I fought brutal custody battles with our exes who were both unfaithful. I didn't get primary custody in my case, but I got an arrangement I can live with and one that I know my kids are happy with.
PSUB will hopefully get the same, if not be granted primary because of the situation with him and the other things the ex has done which judges don't look kindly on (breaking court orders, etc).
I know things may be different in Canada, but what I share with you is the reality I faced having gone through this. Judges have heard it all and nothing surprises them. They also don't care about infidelity short of your WH having sex in front of the kids.
It's a brutal reality and I'm not defending it, I'm merely stating what is. Helpthelostdads, I nominate this as a notable post. From a male point of view, most men feel almost like indentured servants. The "stability" arguement is more about control than anything else. Prior to us signing the 50/50 shared consent order, my exWW pulled the "stability" card. Once she moved 90 miles away and was on the other side of the door looking in, her attitude changed quickly.
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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Thanks tst for the vote of support. What you said reminds me of what my brother-in-law said once: 'when he had the A and pulled out of the M, he lost his rights with regard to the children. The children still have rights with regard to him but he has none with regard to them.'
By the way just to clarify no court in France will limit access to the children by the OP unless you can prove that he/she is somehow a danger to the children eg drug addict, physically abusive or something like that. No moral factors will be taken into consideration. Tully, I feel the same way about my ex too. However, use your brother for moral support and venting. Use your lawyer to come up with what you need to come to a settlement that is in the children's best interests.
Me BH 49 WXW 50
Married 1998
DS 2002
DD 2005
D Day 1 7/28/08
D Day 2 8/19/08
Divorce Final 3/19/2009
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Can't add to the advice you are allready getting here. Its really awesome to see such levelheaded ppl who care about the emotional health of children.
God Bless
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,549 Likes: 10
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You popped in today! Give us an update!
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Hello, Tully! So glad that you surfaced again! I hope your girls are enjoying summer. Re; following quote. I have read (was sent) the same info about 50/50 as you have, but I got my butt kicked  for posting that. I tend to agree about the shared time and money points. In the states, it is becoming not uncommon for one spouse to request 50/50, and use it as a future barganing stance, or a source of control in a "new" divorce situation. Sad. Stick to your guns and gut feelings about persuing custody issue. You have proven to be a calm, rational person in the "line of fire". I know you will continue to do so. Tabby,
Shared custody (as in the 50/50, one week change over variety) is getting a lot of bad press lately. It may work for the parents but in most cases it doesn't for the children and this can be evidenced by the fact that this system rarely lasts for a long time. I've seen several articles criticising shared custody in Quebec. Research has found that while there seem to be more problems with single parent families than 2 parent families, the real cause of the problem is lack of money (single parent families are distinctly poorer statistically speaking) rather than the absence of any one parent. Shared custody arrangements tend to be applied by relatively well-off people who can afford 2 of everything.
The main problem is that children need stability and this system doesn't give it to them. Of course they need both parents but that need is not measured out in terms of time - it's quality of relationship that counts. It's not as if the 2 parents were equal before the divorce. In the vast majority of families, even when both parents work, the mother takes on the bulk of the work with regard to the children and home.
In my case prior to D I was a SAHM and WH's time with his children was probably less than it is now where mine has been severely reduced. I know that this is tough on my smallest one who is only 5. It's also tough on the eldest who takes the brunt of the responsibility when I'm not there. I can see that everytime I get them back the 3 younger ones have developed a habit of asking DD12's permission to do things or her opinion on stuff. I have then to say 'hey, that's my job. Ask me that question.'
Also I know that things will change over time and not for the
Tully
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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Joined: Sep 2008
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Posts: 511 |
Hi Sugar and Barbie,
Just to give the promised update.
Life is pretty OK in general. Right now I'm feeling a bit lonely as I haven't seen the girls this month apart from attending a medical appointment with DD12 a week ago. But that's just a temporary thing, at most other times life is coming together.
My work is going well and I'm enjoying it immensely. I'm still on a temporary contract (almost 11 months in the job now) until next Spring but comforting noises are being made about keeping me on. Nothing concrete as yet but I am optimistic. I've been pulled in on other projects and I'm making myself useful.
Divorce proceedings are very slow at the moment because WH is delaying as much as he can. He was supposed to respond to my divorce papers by the 20th of May but did nothing so a new date was given of 16th September. Hopefully it will be sorted by the end of the year because I would really like to know where I stand financially so that I can plan for the future.
Mentally I am good. Most of the time I am in a peaceful place and enjoying life. My friends have been very supportive of me and very few of them have continued their relationship with WH. 2 of the men still play tennis with WH but their wives have made it clear that the OW is not welcome in their homes: WH at a push but not OW. June was a bit tough for me because both WH and OW turned up at all the children's end-of-school events. I just ignored them completely and tried to behave in an open and friendly manner with friends and acquaintances. But underneath, it was a bit of a strain.
I have started dating a little bit over the past couple of months and it has done my self-esteem a world of good. There is nothing serious going on and I'm not sure I want anything serious before my divorce is finalised but it has been nice to realise that the 'woman' part of me is still there although I have been almost entirely focused on the 'mother', 'employee', 'friend', 'sister', 'daughter' parts of me for a long time.
Now for the hard bit. I'm not sure how the girls are coping. For most of the time they seem OK but then every so often something breaks through the facade and one of them gets upset. I have realised that I need to not worry about things that are out of my control. I try to provide a calm, fun, loving haven at home where they can be when they are with me. Their relationship with their father is out of my hands and control. My duty is to allow the space to exist where they can have a relationship with him but what happens within that space is nothing to do with me. As I said before I never say anything bad about WH or OW and it's becoming easier and easier to do so. I suspect that their relationship with their father will deteriorate over time as he is completely denying the legitimacy of their feelings and insists that there is no problem and that all is well. They know that I am here for them and always will be. DD12 bears the brunt of the pressures. She had a medical issue that looked as if it might be potentially serious but it seems that it's not as bad as first appeared. Still, I'm taking it as a warning sign.
Barbie, I know what you mean about having your butt kicked. People like the idea of 50/50 in everything; it sounds fair and just except that it doesn't always work like that. I noticed that often fathers in particular react strongly to the notion that 50/50 custody doesn't work and go to the other extreme of saying that this means cutting fathers out of the children's lives, turning them into 'merely a paypacket'. Strange that not many of them fight so virulently for 50:50 childcare in intact marriages. Actually I think that often fathers should be given principal custody and I can think of many cases where that would be the better option. But I do think that children need a home of their own. We are now seeing the first generation of adults who have lived with this system and most adult children I know who have been through it think it was awful even if they put up with it at the time. It makes me sad when I hear my daughters say 'Mum's house' and 'Dad's house'; they never say 'home' any more.
WH and OW are still together. I got a bad surprise yesterday when I went out to walk the dog to see them sitting in a neigbour's garden (OW's ex-boss who had an A a few years ago and treated her H abysmally) I am still applying a sort of Plan B to protect myself so I try to not know anything that's going on with them. WH used to be very insistent that we needed to 'talk and get along' for the sake of the children but I told him that anything that needed to be communicated could be done by email or text. However there is a big change ever since the worry about DD12s medical issue, he has backed off completely. Could it be that guilt is getting to him? My sisters tell me to stop dreaming and come back to earth.
Oh and by the way, my ex PILs are still behaving incredibly. They are lending money to the OW so that they can buy the house they are in. They don't want to lend it to WH because they fear that I will ask for half of it as we are not yet divorced. Also they have bought WH a brand new people-carrier car. WH sends the children to them for most of the school holidays when he is supposed to have them (they are there now) I'm sure that they are filling them with all sorts of rubbish but I have confidence in my girls to see through that eventually.
It's funny but I feel as if in their heads there's a sort of holding pen for information that they only let through when they are able to digest it and cope with it. We were chatting at the dinner table the other day about boyfriends and I was teasing them about cute boys. DD12 said 'I would love to have a boyfriend.' I was surprised and asked her why. She gave me a lovely answer. She said 'because when you like someone specially and he likes you specially too, then what happens in the rest of the world doesn't matter so much'. How clever she is! Then one of the twins asked if i had a boyfriend and before I could answer DD6 said strongly 'but Dad is Mum's boyfriend'. And this is after 1 year of alternating between me and WH/OW!!! The others told her that she was ridiculous but I can see that she knows that but her little heart is not yet ready to absorb it. And she is a very intelligent little girl (possibly the brightest of the 4) About a month ago she came to me and asked in a very serious, puzzled voice 'What do you do when we are not here?' I told her a list of all the sorts of things I do but she said 'yes, but what do you DO?' as if I hadn't answered the question. I could see that it was a new thought for her that I exist completely separately from her, that I don't go into cold storage when she leaves.
Sorry, I think this update was possibly more than you bargained for but it made me realise that progress is being made even if it's hard to see that on a day to day level.
Thanks for reading.
Tully
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It sounds like a wonderful update. You sound like you are exactly in the normal range for recovery.
I am glad that you have no contact with PIL. If I remember, they both need assisted living (I won't say at what type of hospital).
Do you still have the dog?
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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So glad to hear your update Tully. As always, you continue to handle yourself remarkably under difficult circumstances. Sounds like life is getting better all of the time. I hope your divorce comes through as quickly as possible for you.
How is Ruby doing?
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Good to hear from you both!
In fact, Ruby never made it from Ireland. She was staying with my sister for a couple of months and when the time came for her to come to us by ferry (after all the veterinarian manouvers has been done) my sister, her husband and their little girl couldn't let her go.
As they had been through a tough time themselves and Ruby was obviously in a good home and bringing them lots of love we decided to leave her there.
We got another dog from a pound here and her name is Jess. The girls love her and when i see them together I am glad I got her despite all the extra hassle a dog brings. We're going camping next month and of course a major priority in the choice was a place that accepted dogs!
Hope all is well with you.
Tully
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