I have just become aware of two people who are "chatting" with WW -- at least one does not know of the A, simply that she "left" me.

Do I expose the A to these people, or do I simply avoid them and stay dark?

This is perhaps a silly question, but I need to know how to manage the people in our joint A.A. community.

Why and how do you know this if you are in Plan B?

Fred, I am going to recommend a technique I used very effectively. I am sure it is not original, but I did come up with it, instinctively and it got good results.
In the early aftermath, like many other BSs, I seemed to have an incredible need to diseminate information. The purpose was two or threefold.
I wanted to refute the smear campaign on which my wife had embarked. I wanted to portray her accurately(which is not flattering). And, I think talking was somewhat therapeutic.
But, I soon realized that I was coming off as nuts(which I was from the trauma).
So, here is how I would handle it. When approached by a mutual acquaintence that was unaware of the fact, invariably, there would be some type of inquiry as to my well being or what was going on in my life.
In responding, rather than making some type of direct declaration about the affair and its effect on me, I would simply work the little factoid of the affair into a preface or preamble to my response. Something along the lines of " I'm really good . XW's affair through me for a bit of a loop, especially during the investigative procees. But, once it was confirmed, things got much easier."
See, you are just acting like, of course, everyone knows about the existence of the affair. You are just assuming that just like everyone else has accepted it as fact, this person already has the knowledge.
Then, when the person inquires further, you act a little confused, as if this is a well known fact, accepted by all, and you merely assumed that this person knew, as well.
Then, you do not come off as having gone out of your way to inform people.
It makes you look uncrazy and as if you are doing okay despite the trauma.

Good advice, Zelmo. To black_raven: I go to a lot of A.A. (and now Al-Anon meetings). This is a very tight community (and there are definitely some dysfunctional people in and out of the rooms). I have people tell me casually about speaking with WW, and I have tried to deflect whenever I can:

Person: Oh, hi. Where's WW?

Me: Sorry, she's not here.

End of topic -- change subject.

Maybe a response like "I'm not sure. Perhaps her affair partner knows." Nice and neutral, low key,as if you are genuinely referring the person to a better source of info.

On the local radio station they are airing a lot of commercials for "Marriage Fitness" by a guy named Mort Fertel. The web site(s) there are several, interlinked, calls it "an alternative to Counseling."

Now I'm not trying to send anyone there, and I'm a bit leery of the whole thing, personally, but I wonder if anyone has tried this?

By comparison, MB has TONS and LOADS of information on this site -- for FREE. The competition offers nothing but "free email help" and some testimonials (and why all this has to run through several web domains has me very curious).

What I did find interesting was in some of the "bullet points" the site lists. Things like

• "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you." An analysis and a solution.
• How to change your marriage even when your spouse doesn't want to.
• How to end an affair and reconnect at home.
• How to stop a divorce.

and more.

Is somebody cribbing from the good Dr. H. and family?

This from one of his sites...


I say this around here all the time...

And don't charge a cent for it.

Might be worth a further look, but It would take days to wade through the sites...

But you know I'll do it eventually.

Mark

I had a close call tonight, and I need to share about it.

I went to a holiday meeting this evening. It's a standard A.A. meeting but the group started an hour early to have a potluck dinner and fellowship before the regular. I had offered to bring the ice. I arrived a bit early to help with the set up, and at the designated time, we all grabbed plates and helped ourselves.

Sitting down at one of the tables, I was joined by a woman who was actually a counselor at the treatment center where I had begun my sobriety. She has known me (and my WW) ever since. We had been chatting when I happened to glance over her shoulder and saw -- WW enter the room. At the very same time, the woman asked me, "Where is your wife?"

I pointed to WW. The woman started to arise, "Oh, am I sitting in her seat?" No, I replied, and I told her the circumstances. I then told her that I was going to have to leave.

Never once making eye contact with WW, I finished my meal, excused myself, wished the woman a Merry Christmas and tossed my trash and left the building.

Whew.

Looking back, I am glad that I was dressed up a bit -- sport coat, wool slacks, clean-shaven and combed. WW was wearing jeans and a fleece top (but of course, she didn't take much when she left).

I know I did the right thing. I went to an Al-Anon group I knew was meeting in 30 minutes and spent the rest of my evening there. I just know I would have been tense, uncomfortable and miserable if I'd stayed. I wouldn't have spoken with her, but why take that chance?

Whew. Again.

I hope this helps anyone else who might find themselves in a similar situation. I knew right away what I had to do, and I did it. No fanfare, no scene. Just split.

You rock!

These little things make a BIG difference IMO. Possibly more for you, but it is really important that you are doing things that make you feel good. It gives you confidence and clarity.

Well played Fred.

I ran into a man at the Al-Anon meeting who has been in A.A. for a long time, is married to a woman in A.A., has attended the same meeting I left, and knows WW and me. We spoke for a few minutes after the meeting, and I reaffirmed my commitment to not taking a drink -- no matter what.

He said the standard lines that I hear in A.A. and Al-Anon ("take care of yourself," "you'll get through this," etc.) and as we were leaving, I said another platitude to him: "Living well is the best revenge."

As I understand it, Plan B is all about learning to take care of myself in WW's absence, and if she never returns, I'll have grown used to it by the time that knowledge rolls around...

Good job in how you handled the situation, Fred. I have had to go that exiting route many times over the years. To me, my XW is dead. It's no fun being around someone that has stabbed you in the back.

I am inching closer to acceptance. This may upset some, but with every passing day, I am believing that my WW is a severely disordered person, and that I would be much better off without her.

For me, Plan B is very much about "falling out of love" with the woman I thought was my W, as the blinders are falling from my eyes and I can see her better for the person she really is.

Perhaps it's just me (or the environment in which I live), but it seems that more people want to turn a deaf eye to what's going on. I get the sense that no one has a moral compass any more. I don't know that anyone is taking WW to task for her poor choices and decisions, but there are a lot of people who just seem to support her and her "new life."

I guess I'm just a throwback. I believe in fidelity. I believe in honoring one's commitments. I believe in loyalty. I believe in honesty, trust and faithfulness. Today's world seems to be all about "do what makes you feel good," not about "do the right thing." And that last comment was one of WW's standard phrases.

As readers of my story know, WW and I have a legal separation agreement, and that we are required to wait six months before we can go to court to file D. That clock is ticking, and so I will continue to read, learn, grow and heal. But with every passing day, D becomes the more attractive option, not R.

Sorry, folks.

It's true, most of us hope your M can be saved.
It's not true most of us think "all" marriages should be saved.

Most of us think you need to earn your way out of the marriage. This is what you are doing.

You have not disappointed anyone.

Having said that, I can tell you are not "done" yet.
Still thinking of ways to expose, spy, 3rd party connect, etc.

That's OK Fredo. But it's like a poker "tell" ... you are not done yet.

Hang in there buddy.
Try to avoid bitterness and cynicism.

Tough thing about coming to grips with leaving a disordered spouse is the fact that they did not ask to be disordered. You love them and feel bad that they became this way due to factors beyond their control.
But, what else can you do, go down with the ship?

Personally Fred I think your going through withdrawals. I wrote in my thread yesterday how I was feeling. Seems we BSs go through much the same withdrawal period while in Plan B as the WSs go through when they commit to NC. It just seems like it's 180 out though. More about giving up the ghost than holding onto it. I think in your previous post above you are right in saying that by month 6 you'll know what to do. According to Harley WSs go through withdrawal for up to 6 months. I'm thinkin it's much the same for us. Not sure if this makes sense but yesterday it kind of struck me.

I completely agree. It is critical to look at their Pre-A behavior and history to come to some conclusion as to whether they are disordered.
So, look for promiscuity, chem dep, credit problems, poor work histories, eating disorders, etc.

Nope (I think).
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.
Yep.

Sigh.

... oh