I know what you are talking about CTI with the perception from the kids. It is all very hard to balance.

Don't mean to threadjack, but this may be helpful for you too CTI.

I had switched from Plan A to this 180 Plan thing for a while. After talkin with SH, I'm back to Plan A as my sitch is a little complicated with my traveling all the time. I have found that this 180 Plan seems to be an option between Plan A and B. Here it is for schtoop and anyone else:

180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

No frequent phone calls.

Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

Don't follow her/him around the house.

Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.

Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.

Don't ask for reassurances.

Don't buy or give gifts.

Don't schedule dates together.

Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in
your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.

Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!

Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.

Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue?
No matter how much you want to!

If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!

Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back.

Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!

Don't be overly enthusiastic.

Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.

Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting
more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.

When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

I love it Sick! I know this isn't MB stuff, but I've got nothing left for plan A, plan B isn't possible right now and plan D takes time.

My IC actually hinted to this yesterday.

Thanks Sick

It is similar though. I started a thread a month ago titled "Plan A vs. 180 Plan" to see what others thought too. It never really got that many responses though. You may want to check that out too.

CTI- is this 180 thing something you may consider until you can do a real Plan B?

Consider it implemented! I'm not writing a letter to tell her what I'm doing, just going to do it. I know my IC well enough to know she would agree with this approach and look forward to discussing it with her.

Sick, on another note, I wanted to thank you for your service. I know you would rather have the admiration and thanks of your W (Not WW) but I wanted to let you know I'm humbled. Thank you.

I followed your thread on plan a versu 180 with a lot of interest, because 180 made a lot of sense to me.

Here's the way I see it:

Plan "A" is still the best bet because you should be making love bank deposits and avoiding withdrawals during that time, making yourself an attractive alternative to the affair. But, it seems to me that plan "A" loses effectiveness when:

1) Your spouse has shut and locked the door to their banks and won't allow you to make any deposits.

2) Spouse doesn't allow us to even try meeting their most important emotional needs.

Take my WW, for example (I think than NC has been followed for about a month now).

I can't meet her need for affection, she won't allow any physical touch from me, even in a non-sexual way. No holding hands, no back rubs, no cuddling, no nothing. No terms of endearment, no ILY's are permitted, either.

Sexual fullfilment is out of the question, we haven't done that in 18 months (at least I don't have to check myself for STD's).

Recreational companionship is out, too. The only thing she enjoys anymore is drinking with her "friends". Won't do things like camping or boating with me and the kids. We went on one date, but her comment was that it felt more like a chore than something she enjoyed.

Conversation is awkward. I try but she seems uninterested. The worst part is that she avoids looking me in the eyes.

So, I'm done with plan "A", bending over backwards, and constantly walking on eggshells. 180 is about moving on with your life.

I wish you the best of luck with it, but also encourage you to continue looking into possible Plan B solutions just in case.

Thank you very much for your appreciation. I think a part of my WW does respect and admire me, but it is deeply buried. I remember when I was about to come home from Afghanistan and we were talking. She was being pretty nasty saying things like the thought of me coming home was making her sick to her stomach and so on. It was pretty hurtful to me.

When she was done, I calmly told her that I had received an award earlier that day. She suddenly stopped and appologized and said something about being proud of me and stuff. I still feel there is part of her that still loves me- it is just pushed down in the fog and being replaced by OM.

We have a big 2009 personal tax bill, she wants me to pay it out of my business. Does anyone have experience with taxes liab from previous year while facing D. I think she should also be responsible for balance.

Don't pay it. It is BOTH of your responsibilities, but if you pay it off alone, it will just be tossed out. I agree she will be responsible for her part, unless you pay it, and then it is assumed that you agreed to take care of it. Keep as much of EVERYTHING as you can until mediation/court is done, then it will get split up. If you take it off the table, no one will care... they will just work with the outstanding balances.

Well back on the rollercoaster. Tough day, kept really busy all week and even managed to convince WW that I wanted to try and find middle ground before the lawyers got involved. She agreed and we both agreed to treat each other better.

I want to save the M. Im doing a descent 180 plan as seen above but just questioning myself.

I received a letter from a pastor friend that said he was sad to here about of but was full of hope because God calls us to peace and the misery will begin to left after the D is final. I dis agree, completely.

In fact this is the response I sent him and wanted your thoughts.

Thank you for your continued thoughts and prayers. You have been given the gift of inspiration and that is something so many people have been touched by, including me.


It has been a long season of pain, hurt, anger �you name it we/I have been there for a while. In regards to our marriage, we have been in the desert for the past couple years and WW would probably tell you longer. I believe her.



I am writing you because I wanted to thank you for your letter that spoke of hope and peace for both of us after the divorce. I agree that God calls us to peace and I want that for all involved, however, I disagree with coming to terms with the fact that we just weren�t a fit. WW and I are very different people, however, when things were going well, most who knew us would say we were a great compliment. Since then we have both made mistakes and neglected to nurture our relationship. I take full responsibility for the role I played in the deterioration of our marriage. With that said a new mutual and self awareness along with the knowledge of where we went wrong and an understanding of what it takes to build this back into a great marriage have come as a result of our time in the desert. As painful as it has been, I am thankful for the season in the desert because I have grown as a person and in my faith. I cannot speak for WW.



With that said, I cannot believe that God�s plan, His will for us is to walk out of the desert and go our separate ways. God doesn�t want divorce for us, He hates it. He gives us the time in the desert to build our character and faith, and then He wants us to apply both to our lives. If we are to believe that He can heal us as individuals after a divorce, shouldn�t I continue to have faith in His ability to heal our marriage? He can restore our love for each other, I have no doubt of it. For the record, I don�t want a divorce, even with WW�s continued insistence that she does not and will not love me as her husband ever again. I have gone the route of a collaborative divorce because I believe that if she is still going to insist on divorce, then it will be less painful for all involved. As you said God calls us to peace and by going the collaborative route I seek peace, I�m not endorsing the divorce.



I trust God and trust He has and will continue to provide WW and I the opportunity to reconcile our marriage and live in joy and peace together as He intended. Whether we chose to trust Him is where our free will gets involved. I also trust that should WW still chose divorce, God has great things in store for all involved, even WW. I haven�t given up hope for our marriage and won�t until it is final and maybe long after. Please join me in holding out hope for a miracle of healing.



I still love WW and probably always will, even with all the pain and even if she goes through with divorce. I�m not �in love� with her and I know she�s not �in love� with me, how could we be right now? I know she feels trapped in misery and sees me as the cause of it. I don�t want her to feel such pain, but I know divorce is not God�s will for her, impossible.



I can look back on my life and recognize all the times I chose to not trust God, some of them while in the process of trying to put the marriage back together, and I only suffered more for it.



If I thought WW could walk away and divide our family with 100% certainty that she is okay with doing so, then I could accept it. If she could reveal her soul and no doubt remained, then I could accept it. Even though she cannot admit to any doubt and may never be able to, I know the truth. I hurt for her because I believe this with every ounce of my being.



I don�t want her hurting on days when she�s not be with DS & DD. I don�t want her hurting on the day she realizes that no one on this earth can fill the void she is trying so desperately fill. I don�t want her hurting the day she realizes she had another choice, and that joy and love could have been our new reality.



Please join me in holding out hope for her, for us, for our families.



God Bless and thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you have done for me and my loved ones.



Warmest Regards,

Sorry for the length.