I guess we will have to see what happens. I do not have much hope here, as I said my H is basically surrounded by OWs, he spends most of his time at the beach in a bathing suit looking great. OW is going to have him cheat on her before she can count to 10.
He is off to a different life, he considers me old and he can get 30 years old to sleep with him.
Who would want someone like that around any more. I really could not trust him ever again. He will never go into IC.
blessing

You have a 10 year old....then you do have a good chance.
blessings

Yes, you have to ask yourself that.....why would you want them anyway?? It's sad to lose your M and family but I would not go back to the way it was. No way.

I don't know about that. I think he has convinced himself that it won't really affect her.

Yes, it was so painful. He was interested in OW the whole M but he was so good at concealing it. He is such a smooth talker and lier. I spent 20 years with him! He pretended to be someone totally different the whole time. And the whole time he was depressed and unhappy and resented being married and not being able to do as he pleased. Gradually, as our son was growing up he realized he could get out of the M and started to actively have As. He never really cared much about me.
Everything got much worse once we came here. Italian women were all over him.

Yep, our stories are very similar...minus 6 years. Having the truth about your life kept from you is a hard pill to swallow isn't it?

The sad part is that I am still the one in pain, kicked to the curb, alone and abused. He is out there having sex and fun and feeling young desired and admired.
It really only boils down to your moral standards. If you do not have any you see things and live you experience using a different set of rules. You do not care if your actions hurt others, you only care about yourself. If you have no morals you really do not get hurt and you remain like a 13 year old for the rest of your life.

I'm going to tell you something I think you already know: Attractiveness is more than just a pretty face. I was attracted first to my WW because of her looks, but as I got to know her (and her physical "imperfections"), there was an awful lot more: the way she smiled, her laugh, a shared interest in sports, politics, and more.

But the first impression wouldn't have gone any further if she hadn't exuded something else. Some indeterminable aspect of her that made her more than just another attractive woman. She had an "aura" about her.

That aura came from her own sense of confidence, determination and purpose. Yet it was tempered by a sense of fragility and femininity that was (to me) captivating.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that WE make ourselves attractive by our demeanor and composure. I spent a lot of years between M1 and M2 not dating and wondering why. I came to realize that I hadn't become comfortable with ME yet. And until I did that, I wasn't seen as being comfortable with anybody else.

I am going to tell you something I've never before put into writing. I've said it to people face to face, but never via the written word.

A dear, late friend of mine named Lynda v.D. once said to me, "Fred, I don't believe God intends for us to be alone. I think there is someone out there for you. She's just not ready for you, yet. So you just have to keep on being the person you were meant to be, and when she's ready, you'll meet."

Now, keep in mind, I don't recall verbatim many things people have told me. Yes, I remember slogans because they are short and pithy. But the above is a word-for-word recitation of what Lynda told me. When I met WW, I thought for sure her prediction had come true. Sadly, it seems I was mistaken.

But I still think Lynda was right. I think my (and perhaps yours, too) experience has just been part of the "journey" we are on to become the people we are supposed to be. I don't have any idea when "that person" will come into our lives, but I'm confident they will.

We are too good to be alone. Have faith. And keep becoming the person you were meant to be.

Thank you for your great post Fred. It makes sense what you are saying. I have always been insecure and afraid. I still am, but making progress. Once I feel good with me, then I will attract people who feel good with themselves.
blessings

Yes he is doing all those things but we've now learned what is on the inside of someone who would do that and I've decided for myself that I want nothing to do with someone like that. I think you have too. It seems like fun but I think they are very broken and empty on the inside and that life will come to nothing but more emptiness. I want more. I want a deep connection with someone of good character and integrity. I'm capable of having that now and hopefully someday I will.

About WS:

A number of people here on MB have suggested, in a number of ways, that my WW is "disordered" or somehow lacking all of the fibers that make us loving, loyal, dependable and faithful spouses. Try as I might, I haven't found the "diagnosis" that confirms this.

But I very much agree with your words above. Well said!

Hear, hear!

I think you are right on. There is nothing like being rejected by someone whom you put your trust, love, energy, and self into. That rejection wounds deeply and can cause you to wonder if you will ever be able to be attractive to someone else, or even if you are worthy of someone else. I see relationships here that have broken after 20 - 35 years, that is a large investment in time, and many of us do not have that much time left to reinvest, so we feel apprehensive. We feel insecure because we are not comfortable with the "new" selection process, not knowing even where to go or how to meet people. We can allow that fear to paralyze us into thinking "why should we bother".

I believe that question was answered last week by someone in the course I was taking. She was commenting about what she was going through in her life's phase and she said "and then I realized Holy Smokes I'm not dead yet, I better get going"

There still is hope unless we willingly give that up. And there is more to attraction than just physical looks. It helps with the introduction but does not sustain a relationship. From what I have read from your posts you have plenty of capability to sustain a relationship as you have character.

I am in sort of the same position, my wife has revealed some facts and has admitted to her A's however. What was that letter, Jacobs letter, where he talked about pieces of a puzzle missing, if one doesn't know what they need to know. There are pieces missing and I too feel our R will not be whole and healthy, in the long run.

I've been to many IC's, which didn't focus at all on the A's, but did help me tremendously with some personal issues relating to childhood. We've had 3 MC's and they focused on my wifes feelings and what made her think she had to do the A's...not much about ME and MY feelings on the matter. I have not gone back.

I know living in the past won't accomplish a lot, but why do some therapist focus on the WS feelings more than the BS? Do we not have feelings? That part I don't understand.

Just speculation on my part: I think therapists and counselors don't consider the BS because "they're okay." It's the WS who is having the emotional and mental issues. I've seen the same thing in addiction counselors, who only give a passing mention to the idea that family members and people close to the addict should go to Al-Anon. After all, the addict is the patient, not the "well people."

Reading Dr. Harley's work, he typically spends some time working with the wayward before working with the betrayed spouse. However, he's often characterized this as working to get the "reluctant spouse" willing to do marriage counseling.

IIRC, he says that nearly all of the couples he counsels have one reluctant spouse, and one willing spouse. If both are willing, the couple resolves their own problems and figures out the solution together. If both are reluctant, they don't go to a counselor, and the marriage dissolves. But if one is willing and one is reluctant, those are the ones who end up in counseling.

That's an interesting observation 'Bb'....maybe over simplified, but accurate.

Hi atena! I realize not many folks know me here anymore, but back when my d-day hit (January 2004) I was posting my brains out here.

I was an extremely hurt, angry, devastated BS. I could not wrap my brain around the fact that my H, who I had been with for 26 yrs., could have been such a jerk. Plus there were a lot of what I call double whammies. An A going on while my dad was dying and died, and worse stuff than that. Oh, we stayed together BTW.

I'm going to answer your question from the POV of a BS, someone who has had IC and plenty of MC, and as a therapist myself. First, I don't think any therapist should be saying "should ofs" to their client. Unless you've walked in a BS's shoes it's easy to say "Why didn't you know what was going on?" The idea that someone we love is destroying us can't always be grasped right away while it's occurring.

I fully believe that for many BSs the A is a trauma that results in PTSD, and if the BS has earlier trauma it triggers it all. One treatment for trauma recovery is to talk about what occurred until it loses it's emotional punch. I am in no way saying all BSs need to do this, but I am saying I did. And, in order to heal with my FWS he had to be willing to go to those dark places with me.

I agree that you don't want to get stuck in your anger. I also firmly believe if you don't deal with it that's when you're going to have problems. Affairs are anger inducing. What I loved about MB is that I could get all my anger out here. I also had a great therapist that never tried to push me to a place that I wasn't at. We had an outstanding MC that never told me to move on or get over it. He understood the trauma and respected my pain, yet also was fair and balanced.

I was with a client today who acknowledged that she buried her feelings for years, and now, because she has been getting them out she is aware of her choices to have a different life. If I would have shut her up the first month, and she has a lot of anger, telling her it's time to move past the anger, she'd still be where she was 6 months ago. I do believe in a behavioral approach also, and I definitely don't believe in pushing the past work onto a client. However, when the past is influencing a person's present it is worth taking a look at.

Anyhoo, just another perspective that I hope helps. Remember, you can't get to the other side of grief without going through it.

QFT. It's been extremely useful for me to be able to create a "short story" version of my life during the affair by rehearsing it. At first, I couldn't say it without breaking down in tears or becoming extremely angry. Now, I can recite it with only a little bit of disappointment and unhappiness... I suspect eventually I'll be able to talk about my experience during my wife's affair in much the same way I talk about high school clubs I was a part of but didn't like much.

I found a similar thing happening after I left the LDS church. At first, it was very raw, very emotional, and very difficult to talk about. As I continued to tell the same story over and over, in time the story just became part of my history, like where I went to college. Now it's almost eight years after the fact, and what I considered the most significant event of my life has paled in significance to what's going on right now in recovering from my wife's affair.

What's in the present, right now, is what matters, but learning to distance myself from the past so that it doesn't impair my ability to function in the present is a huge win.