WnC - I don't have a lot to offer for your relationship situation, since thank Goodness the closest I've dealt with addictions is an older brother who's never been much in my life, and then professionally (but remotely).

I have been reading your posts, however, and wanted to offer up one thought regarding your issue with the 12 step programs, religion and "higher power". I don't know where you're located, but you may want to see if there's a Unitarian Universalist church in your area. (uua.org will have a locator) Many times they have a 12 step program, and their "take" on higher power is a bit different - everything from "the divine within" to "that which connects us all" to "human potential" to the "spirit of Love" is referred to. If there's no UU church locally, do a google search for the Church of the Larger Fellowship, they're an internet-based UU Fellowship and I'm fairly certain they have 12-step groups as well as other support groups as well.

I wish you the best!

Thanks! I've already looked into those arenas. I'm in the midwest, and although there's a Unitarian Church here, they had nothing for support groups. This is a very churchy, conservative part of the country.

So, I met with the counselor today. David, the counselor, says that J hasn't been in to see him in over a month, and that when he was he wasn't interested in doing anything that would alter his path. He's having fun, and enjoying his "freedom" and not wanting to see or hear anything that would challenge his reality. David (the counselor) is experienced in addiction counseling, and says that there's not much he can do if the person isn't willing or able to do anything about it.

J and I were supposed to go in for a joint session in January sometime, and when I asked about that and told David I was apprehensive, he said there was really nothing to be gained from it at this point... J is just going to keep convincing himself out loud that he's doing the right thing.

So, I guess it's time to Plan B. He's living on the property we need to put on the market and sell. We've got 5 horses to make arrangements for, as well. The property is in my name, so I'll have to get the real estate agent, I suppose, though I'd rather make him do the grunt work.

If I put up a Plan B letter, would you guys check it out and give me your opinions?

For what it's worth, it sounds like your counselor is being up front and honest with you. As painful as I'm sure it was to hear, at least you got a frank answer.

That's why I like him. He tells it to me straight... at least I think he does. Today he said "I know it's hard to see now, but in the long run you'll be so much better off without him. You've always been the one with the strength." It's no consolation, though. I was always happy with J. We got very well... it was like a "buddy movie" with lots of sex.

Now, I'm looking at my life and not sure what to do next. My entire life, all I ever wanted was to be able to get to the country, have a place with some horses. Something that no one could take away from me. I just wanted to feel SAFE. I did that. It was good. Now I'm not just losing my best friend, but everything I worked for as well... and I have absolutely NO idea what I want next. I don't know how to feel safe anymore, or to have anything in my life that no one can take away from me. My health isn't great... I'm working on that for now. But the rest of my life? I have no idea, no plan, I've NEVER been without a plan. And that's what scares me the most. -Chel

WnC,
You feel like this because the foundation that built your beliefs has been shattered. I feel like I'm pushing this book a lot lately - Sarah Ban Breathnach wrote a book "Simple Abundance" after her D. The book is about rebuilding "Self". It should be available at your local library. Take a look at it - you might relate to it.

Yes, people here will help you with Plan B letter.

Gg

Dunno if you have read this or not;

Link to letter from Dr. Harley


Link to letter #2


Link to letter #3

Well, that's depressing.

I guess this whole issue is a "chicken and egg" kind of thing. Did he start drinking because he was unhappy in the relationship, or did the drinking accelerate it? I guess it really doesn't matter... he's had an ongoing addiction to masturbating with porn since before we were even dating (he started at about 14?)and that probably contributed to his ongoing fantasy of sex with other women. That's going to be a serious issue for him... not to be graphic, but he's so used to the "mighty righty" that he's periodically had trouble getting satisfaction any other way. I expect he thinks a new woman... a different woman... will solve this for him, but that's not terribly likely. Once the "new and exciting" wears off any relationship, he's going to find himself facing reality again.

So, I'm gonna plan B letter and get as far away as I can. I guess that's the best I can do. I am sadder than words can say, and I wonder who it was I've loved all these years... him, or his wasted potential?

Wolf, not Cougar

Wolf...I know right now it feels like you've wasted your time, but you haven't. You've learned more from this relationship than you realize. Wisdom doesn't come without processing all of it - the good, the bad, and the ugly.

You've gained empathy and compassion that you probably don't appreciate right now, but someone, someday in your life will learn from what has happened here. Our time with others isn't wasted - even when it feels like it - because we were put on this planet to teach each other things - even unfortunate things.

What do you feel you've learned from this relationship that you wouldn't repeat in the next? What do you feel you did right? Think on this and take heart.

Hang in there.

Hi Chel. Why is he living on the property that you've wanted your entire life? You already have your safe place. Move back in. If he wants to leave that's HIS choice.

He's on the property because of my health issues... I just don't have the physical strength or endurance to manage that place and the horses all winter by myself. Even in the summer it would be challenging. Also, it's isolated.

Counselor David actually insisted on this arrangement, because J running off to town to live with his bachelor friends in Happy Bachelorland while I bust my @ss to liquidate everything and live in isolation and near poverty just wouldn't be right. Left to my own devices, I'd be a hermit if I were out there, and I don't think that's the best thing for me... I need people now. It's good I'm close to my friends and family.

J is supposed to be using this time to do home improvements and clean the place up to get it ready to sell. There are things he's "been meaning to do" for years. Now he's got incentive... as soon as the house looks good and is ready to sell, we'll put it on the market. The circumstances will reward him for being responsible and working hard.

For all his whining about how isolated he feels living in the country, he can get to work in under half an hour. J doesn't realize how the real world works, and acts like things are truly intolerable when they are situations that most people would give their eyeteeth for! Imagine how many people would KILL for a half an hour commute... and to have beautiful scenery most of the way.

I'm sad to lose the place, especially since we qualified for an interest rate reduction. The house payments are only around $750 a month now. I can't rent an apartment and board ONE horse for that. But I can't stay there, either. It's tough.

Wolf, not Cougar
Chel

Can you find someone who is willing to be a roommate who is also willing to do some horse-work for a reduction in rent?

A friend of ours is coming back from Iraq in February, and has expressed an interest... but it's scary to have to rely on someone else. He's a good guy, but doesn't have the best history of being reliable. He'd also like to BUY our place, but can't get the money or the financing together. :P

I'm trying to be creative, but it's frustrating.

Has he ever bought a home before? Could be he is eligible for the one-time veteran's loan thing? Not sure what it's called.

No, he hasn't. He's eligible for the veteran's loan thing, but he doesn't have much for a down payment. Our place is pricy compared to what the others he's looked at cost.

I should email him and see if he'd have an interest in the "roomies" thing until house sells. Although, really? I like the idea of WH staying there and doing ALL the grunt work. He was never involved in any of our other home purchases or sales... it was all me, all the time. Now he's probably using his dissatisfaction with being out there as a metaphor for the whole relationship... making the farm, itself, his scapegoat.

eh - I would try to resist the urge, to be honest. Move on with your life as much as you can and forget about recompense. It all comes around in the end. Your best move is to live a happier life.

I would have your friend look into the VA home loan opportunity. He may not need much down (if any) to qualify.

The sooner you can peel that monkey off your back, the sooner you can move on and start over...

Hmmm... I get the impression that most of the folks on this board I've talked to are NOT in favor of us reconciling at any point. I am completely firm on my boundaries regarding alcohol, porn/mb addiction, and general fidelity. I've already planned to move on like he's never coming back... but I do still think there's a chance he's redeemable. Slim chance, to be sure. Burden of proof is totally on him.

And yeah, I HAVE been thinking of recompense/justice. This is all so horribly unfair. Counselor David said the other day that the only thing I'm guilty of is "always being the adult" and slipping into some co-dependent behavior during this last year together.

I want to find my own peace, again. I want to feel safe. I'd like to be in a HEALTHY relationship. I'm not willing to "settle" for someone who has less than 100% commitment to making our relationship work.

So, just scrape him off as fast as possible? I can probably make the house sell faster, get it ready to sell faster, get a divorce faster if I'm actively involved in making it happen. Should I even bother with a Plan B letter?

I've accused him of chasing after fantasies... I guess I could be guilty of that, too. It's probably a fantasy to think he'll pull his head out of his [censored] and get help, and return to me as someone who's emotionally available.

MB isn't going to work in his case, the way I understand it. He's going to have to get that figured out before he's going to have a proactive mindset about the marriage.

I think if you want to wait a while, that's up to you, you know? If you want to tell him that you'll wait until such and such a date - but that after that you'll be moving on...up to you.

But...I certainly wouldn't wait forever - you get one shot at this life. Days turn into weeks, and weeks turn into years. Trust me, I'm 46, near 47 - looking back a whole lot lately about things I might have done differently - and taking better care of myself (in all arenas) and paying closer attention to how I was treated and what I meant to people would have been somewhere near the top of my list. Just saying...

Wolf...think of it this way...some people just are NOT cut out for marriage or parenthood. You can still be on his side, still root for him, support his efforts, and still be a friend without getting sucked in and investing all that you are, but if you're not in a place yet where you can separate yourself in that way, it is probably best that you 'lovingly' detach and let him process what all he has lost. It may take him a while, but like I said before, things have a way of coming full circle.

October 13 of 2010. That's my deadline.

Apparently he asked a friend of ours about filing and what it entails... but she noticed he never said "the D word." Trust me when I say there is a part of him that is appalled by what he's doing and the choices he's making. It remains to be seen as to how far he's buried that part. :P

The past 3 months have probably been the most important in my life... not the BEST, oh heck no, but the most important. I'm working on getting healthy... not just from my fibromyalgia issues, but also the damage the last year has wreaked on my system. Turns out I've always had big abandonment issues, based on lovely childhood baggage. After his bomb-drop, confession of the long term porn addiction and the whole "I love you but I've never been IN LOVE with you" I slipped into full-on co-dependent behavior. I'm attending CoDA, CoSA and Al-anon meetings now. My self esteem has taken such a huge hit... but my eyes are wide open now, and I don't think I'm likely to get "suckered in" anymore.

I will take a year after the divorce is final to keep working on my issues before I seek any other romantic relationship. I want to be healthy and make good choices. I also have major fears about finding anyone worthwhile to date. Porn/mb addictions are becoming a lot more common, I'm afraid.

J, my WH, has a lot of good qualities... all of which are completely camouflaged by his drinking and unrealistic attitudes about sex, marriage, and life in general. I hope he gets to experience the full consequences of his behavior so he can turn "drunken jerk" into a passage, not his final destination.

I wish I knew how it was all going to turn out.