Amen, Brother.

Failure is not an option. The letter must be written or true recovery can not begin. I believe that I can persuade her, I just haven't figured out how, yet. It wont involve a selfish demand, but openness and honesty about my feelings; and further build up of the trust that she has started to have in my ability not to judge her (A LB I have in the rearview mirror for 3 months now, and that's where it's going to stay).

No. But come spring, if we haven't sold the house, something has to be in place b/c POSOM will be more out in the open once the weather gets better. The opportunities for chance meetings will be many.

Right now TTBB, no, perhaps because I have too much animosity for OM. If I could be ultra confident that WW is no longer wayward, maybe. I just don't see that happening. I don't see ever feeling comfortable with (f)WW even glimpsing posom on a regular basis.

Myself? Or Us?
I really believe that WW would be fooling herself if she thought she could move forward fully with the M and still have even the possibility of further contact. She had intense feelings for this poor sob. Exactly because he is a poor sob, she felt sympathy for him and allowed herself to be manipulated on those feelings. The constant, ever-present threat would be more than I could bear, honestly. I am hardly comfortable now and it's so cold nobody even leaves their house unless they have to.

Failure is not an option.

opt

Mark,
thanks for that post. your insights are always timely and poignant.
opt

On a positive note. From the "making progress" file.

WW announced that she will sleep in our bed on Christmas eve. (!!!)
Evidently daughter(8) made this request and WW could not refuse (love that little girl!)

Also, WW took me tanning. Closest thing to RC we've had in a while, then we came home and watched Madmen (netflix).
Madmen - set in the 60's. All but three main characters have cheated on their SO's.... isn't life bazaar?

Her mother called me all happy today "whatever you're doing keep it up! She sounds as happy as I've heard her in a long time"

Thanks MB.
Thanks Willard Harley. The 60's could have used your wisdom.


opt

Not sure if I have an opportunity here:

WW left for Florida yesterday. From there she will leave for Argentina tomorrow, Monday. From there they will be on a trip to Antarctica for 2 weeks. (see above posts for details of this situation). I would expect on Monday she will be largely unreachable either by phone or text although she plans to seek ways to check her e-mail.

Here's the thing. She left her computer here. Everything was open including e-mail program and web browser. No password protection. Stupid Wayward? Or invitation? (I'll explain below)

I've been checking her browsing history for weeks, but never had this type of an opportunity to go into any great depth. Last night I spent time going through browsing history back to June 30. What I found was nothing I didn't already know. I knew that on 11/23 she searched for about 10 minutes on symptoms of pregnancy (most likely this indicates her 'EA' was a 'PA.' Not long after that she looked for info on STD's, including Chlamydia.
Most of the other stuff of note seems pretty standard fair for a wayward: apartment searches, info on divorce/separation laws, MB (probably looking for my thread - no luck. Hey SickofLimbo - she looked at your thread for a few minutes, LOL; she also read SH's letter on "exposure" about 3 days after her exposure), and looking for jobs.

Other than that there isn't much there. She doesn't have a chat room and her other e-mail account she barely checks. She shops A LOT (addiction?) and really doesn't buy that much. I mean hours spent looking for a pair of gloves or a dress she never actually buys.

Total time with MB: 25 minutes in 5 months. Total time looking for info on how to destroy our M: 4-5 hours (info related to getting out of the marriage).

Now, there's a couple of things going on here. WW has spoken with SH and although she won't let on, I think some of the concepts (along with a heroic plan A I'm in) have been sinking in. The last deleted text on phone was 12/17 (probably OM) and I don't believe she answered it, but either way the A is definitely on the ropes, big time. WW slept in our bed on Christmas eve and Christmas night for the first time in 2 months. She even let me see her in the shower before she left - closest thing to SF in many, many long months.

I have written her a love letter per day to be handed her daily by her Father (also on the trip). DS (also on the trip) will be "reminding" grandpa as needed. They're excellent plan A letter and should have a positive affect as I believe WW's love language is communication (from the love language book).

Here's the question: She's going to have a LOT of time to think during this trip. Do you think it will occur to her that her browsing history was never deleted? If it was me and I was wayward (as I was once); this thought would most certainly have woke me up like a cold shower. Or should I drop a little hint??

Is it worth a potential negative reaction on her part knowing I'm going into her computer? Or is it better that she have 2 weeks to try to figure out how she's going to explain why she was looking up STD's and pregnancy? She thinks I trust her and has yet to come to the understanding that she has to earn back her trust.

I've been very good about not giving up my source. And I will be installing a key-logger once and for all now that I have full access to the machine. So the future is already covered.

Another thing pertinent: She joined FB about 3 weeks ago and she left her FB page open. So I've done a nice job on her profile. She didn't have herself listed as married (that one hurt). Now she's happily married to me and there are pictures of us including the profile picture. So.... she'll already know I've been into her little dream machine if she checks her status at some point in the next few days, will that lead her to the next logical conclusion that I'm all over it? Or do I push the issue to make sure?

And how would I do it in a non-LBing, loving way?
"honey, your Firefox history goes back to June 30th. Have a great trip!"
"honey, your web-browser history was not deleted. I think it was slowing down your computer."

I think we're really making progress. I don't want to take us back a step by threatening her security - the concept of radical honesty is not one she's ready to adopt yet. Is it possible she left it open on purpose??? I mean, that's pretty dumb if she had something she really wanted to hide. Maybe this is her way of opening up. (Or is that my BS fog talking.....?) Maybe she thinks she cleaned it up and has nothing to worry about (even though I've been checking her e-mail for weeks also, unbeknownst to her).

I'm hoping my wife comes back from the trip. Not the alien she's been for the last 9 months.

Thanks everyone for your input! Just so you know, I'm leaning toward leaving it alone. But if I hear a compelling argument to the contrary, I'm open to suggestions. (Now I sound like Fred in VA, lol).

Opt

PS: by the way, she's not pregnant. I've been checking the feminine hygiene products and watching her behavior. She's not.

For once, lol, I don't have an answer. I honestly don't know what to tell you. My first instinct is to not talk about it. More time for her spent thinking about you. As for FB, if you've done those things to HER page, I think I would set one up of my own, to mirror hers. That way, if she asks, you just say "Yeah, I was working on my FB page, cos I was bored, so I saw yours and figured I'd spiff them both up."

To answer whether she left her PC open for you -I doubt it.

Do not for get to send little messages to her that keeps her in your memory. If you can't think of anything to say -send her a joke.

All the best during the dry spell. Take interest in the pictures when she gets back.

Thanks Cat. Because of the help you've given me in the past, you're 'not having an answer' is actually 'having an answer.'
Unless I hear something energetic to the contrary I'll go with your 'first instinct.'

I have a FB page and did modify it up to mirror hers. I guess I'm catching on.
I hardly think she'll have a problem with me changing her status to "married." And if she does she'll have 2 weeks to think about why.

Meanwhile there is a love letter per day full of little nothings, promises, and reminders that there is someone back home who REALLY loves her. period.

wish me luck.

opt

Thanks imagine.
Covered on all fronts above.

(Wishful BS fog thinking about her leaving the PC open for me - stupid BS I am, lol...)

No worries, when she gets back plan A continues. In high gear. (hopefully with a group session with SH a few days later...)

Now I'm off to a football party where her dad will be. My last chance to impress him as he leaves tomorrow to meet up with them in Florida and head to Argentina from there.

I hope he likes my Calzone. I bought the best ingredients!

opt

Good luck Opt. I think you are making all the right moves.

Hey Opt,

Glad to hear things are going so well. I love the idea Steve came up with on the letters. I wouldn't have thought of it, which is why it is good you have the PROFESSIONALS helping you....

My thoughts on all of this??.....I say change her FB BACK to how it was. While I do believe that marriage doesn't hold any secrets, it doesn't give you the right to mess with her page. My H was not fond of giving up his passwords, but nothing aggravated him more than when I would be checking up on him and I would mess up his stuff. He likes his things organized a certain way and hated when I read emails first because then he wasn't sure if he had read it or thought he did read something that was important and he didn't and whatever needed to be known in the email got missed by him.....

Now, some on here might say that that is too bad, but then again, my H didn't delete emails pre-A, during the A, and still doesn't. But to me, just because you have been given access doesn't give me the right to do as I please. Instead, we POJA on what goes on in there.

BUT, to me, she didn't give you access, so by doing this, you have been given a new avenue to snoop. And by changing that FB stuff, you have given up your intel. Not a smart, tactical move my friend.

So change it all back, put on the spyware or keylogger, and whatever you do....DO NOT BRING THIS UP TO WW....do not give away the game plan....I would not tell her you were in it, I would not tell her what you saw, I would not say anything......

You have been given a freebee on a tactical part of this A business....use it wisely...

not2fun

Sorry for the quick t/j, opt...

Hey, not2fun, what did you ever decide on that personal story on "intentions" you were thinking about sharing?

I have no problems doing it...I'm just not sure how helpful it would be to YOU.....

not2fun

Hey, thanks Limbo.

My calzone was a hit. Dad asked "where did you get this?"
An ultimate compliment from someone who graduated Cornell and ran his own catering business for 30 years.

Hopefully some of the plan A-type efforts will make their way on to the ship with him. Besides, I think he was still a little sore with me about the exposure. He's never been faithful to a wife yet, so the idea of a recalcitrant spouse I think hit him a little hard. Oh well, maybe he learned something....not!

Thanks for the encouragement. I've been waiting for your update and see that you have a depressed wayward on your hands. I hope she finds comfort in your plan A my friend.

Opt

Okay, Not2Fun.
you haven't steered me wrong yet.
I totally see your point.
Unfortunately I didn't get this in time.....

My suspiciousness got the best of me about an hour ago when she got an email from someone who I consider a threat. He's another neighbor and has been a friend of the family for years. Our kids play together. He's also been divorced for some time. He spends a good amount of time with WW in RC. Two weeks ago she called me from the supermarket and I happened to be in the neighborhood and stopped by - guess who she was with? She got defensive about that that night in counseling accusing me of "following her around" (which I wasn't - I wanted to surprise her)

On Christmas eve she wanted to go tanning with him. I lovingly expressed my concern and let her know I wasn't comfortable with her friendship with him. She flipped out and again got quite defensive. Too defensive in my opinion.

Back to the e-mail. It was mostly benign, but due to my trust level being so low, I hacked into her other email account. It required that I change passwords on two of the accounts I know about.

------I know you're going to have something to say about this------------

I can't change the PW's back b/c I don't know what they were.....

I figured I would just play Mickey the Dunce and hope she chalked it all up to a computer glitch.

She wont' really have much access to email on the trip, so hopefully she won't have time to deal with it; then when she gets home she can get things re-set.


How bad did I screw up?

Lack of Trust and Jealousy can be a terrible thing.
(I'm still going to check the other e-mail account while I can....

Opt

That was actually my first thought, but I figured if you're anything like me, that would be impossible...to remember what went where, lol. Or even how to do it. I can barely even open FB.

Opt,

For the first year or so after the A ended, I worried endlessly (obsessed if you will) about H's interactions with EVERY breathing female on the earth. It was EXHAUSTING......it wasn't until I accepted that this was all on H and his behavior that I found some peace. Oh, I still worry (can't tell you how paranoid I can get about his assistant...and there's even another man working in his office now....), after all, in learning just how devious women can be, who wouldn't, but I still take it all to where the true responsibility lies...with H. Mark taught me this....

The fact of the matter is you are still dealing with a wayward wife. She may not be in an active affair, but when a spouse believes it is ok to have relationships with opposite sex, then they are still wayward. Plain and simple. And until she learns otherwise (and not from you....leave Steve to do this PLEASE!!!!), she will remain wayward.

Now, as far as the new development...BTDT. Yep, you are gonna be in hot water. You just go back to the same lines you repeat when dealing with the fog.

As far as the facebook thing, I would STILL change it back. You may get away with the "Mickey-the-dunce-computer-glitch" thing with the passwords, but not with FB. Fix this like yesterday....

not2fun

N2F, thanks as always for your input.

I'm not sure what you mean by the above quoted text. Are you saying she's developing another EA in front of my eyes? (Not sure why that would equate to me being in "hot water") Or me messing with her passwords, which could clearly land me in hot water...

What do you mean "been there done that?" Is this common for a foggy wayward to end one EA/PA (through exposure etc) and then simply jump to another? I know she was trying to go out a lot for a while there (I can only imagine to search other prospects) that seems to have stopped recently.

Little slow on the up-take today - I'm exhausted because I was up a lot last night obsessing about the 2nd email account. 3am I'm pouring through thousands of emails since 2006. Nothing there. But I don't regret looking.

WW leaves the country tonight and will have presumably even more limited access to technology at that point. Hopefully I'll feel like I can relax. I was hoping for a mini-vacation from the hard work of Plan A, but so far it's been exhausting and full of anxiety.

Thanks for any further help.

Opt

I meant that you would be in hot water for changing those passwords, and BTDT because I have done this very thing......and I've BTDT on the staying up till 3 am looking at emails.....VERY EXHAUSTING....go take a nap....

not2fun

10-4, not2fun. Daughter is going to a friend's for the night, I promise to turn in early and stop obsessing for at least 12 hours.

WW just called from the airport, she still sounds pretty up-beat. Earlier today she actually said ILY on the phone it's been months since I heard that. I "Plan A'd" her Mom quite a bit so hopefully some of that rubbed off, too. I sent ahead some notes for Mom to give her for the last couple of days, plus one for DS. Evidently that was a pretty good idea (thanks SH) because she commented to Mom that "it shows he's thinking of me."

Dad has the letters and I checked again to make sure he'll give them each day. All I can do now is hope I stay "in her mind." (and hope I can control my own, lol)

Oh, I'm planning to expand on the theme and write down all of our activities each day, a little diary if you will, for when DS and WW return. So it will be like she didn't miss anything...

opt

I know. I have a prepared response in case i need it. It's pretty much a beg-for-mercy, forgiveness and understanding type of thing. You know, man's favorite dance step: the Back-Peddle.