I think altering her FB status may have had a secondary positive affect (changing her "R status" to married" (which I can't undo). MY FB updates have been quite sentimental. I have also posted her wall with regular communications (2 or 3, not over the top) about how things are back home and how daughter and I miss them, and all stuff about family, etc. ****Potential OM #2 has lately faded into the woodwork around the neighborhood.
And HIS FB status also indicates some interesting sentiments:
�...Leave last year behind and focus on what is important this year,remember your family and put past differences behind,clean the slate and your heart make room for better things,God Bless us all.�

Am I a crazy/stupid betrayed spouse, or is this a way of ackowleding to me about making a move on my wife? (stop laughing vets! ) See, I�ve always considered this guy to have an ounce of class and he has been a good friend to the family. I know the kind of person he is and it's important for him to be perceived as an upright guy. He also lost his wife to Adultery about 2 years ago. I truly believe he MAY have been snared by my very charming WW�s foggy come-ons (her need to secure her EN�s outside the M). Maybe with all the FB stuff, he�s recognizing that I am not happy with his flirting with her on-line, and that he was OUT of line. MAYBE he's thinking twice about developing a bond with my WW. Could I have caught it in time?????? (Like Linus?)

Here�s a question, if you go along with that premise: what if he decides to come to me with his new outlook �Hey, I realize I went a little too far with the trips to the grocery store and tanning bed, etc. Sorry, it won�t happen again.� Do I let him know if he�s truly sorry, he�ll stay the hell away from her for an extended period and allow me to work on our M? (that�s what I�m thinking)

If something like this comes to pass, I�m SO prepared for WW: �you took my FRIEND away just because of your unreasonable jealousy!! Now, I know I REALLY can�t be with you! You�ve ruined everything. I�m a prisoner, I can�t even have any friends!�

Me: �I�m doing whatever is necessary to save our marriage.�

(not sure if I mentioned it above: last time I brought up my discomfort with her relationship with POM#2 (in a very loving and matter-of-fact way), part of her flip-out was �we just went back! all of the progress we�ve made is ruined, we just went back!� --wayward speak, and BECAUSE I didn�t react to it, Christmas eve was overall pretty uneventful after that; she was foggy, but it wasn�t that tense. Of note: she was also VERY UPSET that I was talking about this with the kids around �Now everytime they see him they�re going to think something bad about him� , And of course I�m thinking �like what? Like he�s trying to destroy our family and steal mommy? Awww, what a shame for our kids to know that not everyone is who they say they are.� I was also proud of myself for showing the kids that Daddys can have feelings too and that they should be allowed to express them openly and lovingly; I never accused that man of anything - all I said (and repeated) was that I was NOT comfortable with her and his relationship, that it gave me concerns because I loved her and didn�t want to lose her.

This all happened a week ago. With input here from everyone and careful consideration, I�m just now piecing it all together. N2F, you�re right. She�s still VERY wayward. And there IS (and has been) something going on with this guy. At least in her mind. I�m glad I�ve been watching that situation closely. I�ll be watching it even closer when she gets back.

opt

ps: here's to a new year and new beginnings.

Linus, congrats on running the Boston Marathon. 9 miles is about 8 1/2 more miles than I would have made!
I wasn't sure if you were familiar with the Boston Marathon, but if you like the analogy, I was going to remind you that the last few miles is where Heartbreak Hill is at (you know it all too well, I guess!). So don't forget that, as with a lot of things, just when it all seems hopeless and you're about to give up- that's when perseverance pays off.

I hope you're right about me and W heading to R board eventually. I think we have a ways to go, but I'm working hard. I think you're right about the trip ultimately being a good thing. Tomorrow she reads a letter with well-stated promises (ML's suggestion); implementation of those promises has already begun and will continue in full force when she returns.

You couldn't be more right about that my friend!

Peace,
opt

If he approaches you, by all means talk honestly with him. Give him the benefit of the doubt, to preserve everyone's dignity...but snoop like a PI!

Okay, Cat. That sounds reasonable. I'll can do that. Thanks for your assistance once again.

Meanwhile, a little update; mostly for my own purposes. Last time I communicated with ww (or DS13) was on Wednesday night when she got on FB for a quick chat.
E-mail checks reveal nothing and her FB page is still open on her computer logged in, so I know she hasn't tried to communicate with OM#2. Probably it's restrictively expensive to use a computer on a ship from the antarctic region.

So four days the only thing she's heard from me are the letters that I sent with her Dad. That was a pain in the neck writing all those letters (discretely, no less), but boy am I glad I did that. They're good letters each with it's own point. Today she hears about my hopes to move on and some heartfelt promises about behavior I'm going to continue to avoid (LB's- but I didn't use those terms)- Cat, the promises suggestion was yours I think.

Also I'm hitting her FB with PM's about each day's activities of me and Daughter8. Just factual type stuff, like a diary. When she gets back on the computer, she'll know we were thinking of her everyday; but also having a good time.

I'm feeding my Taker during this respite. Enjoying myself and the relative freedom from plan A. The bond between daughter and I grows stronger everyday and we're doing some really fun stuff - she'll never forget this time we have together. Tomorrow my sister arrives for a week long visit. She will try to give me all sorts of advice, some of which will be on the mark and some will be conventional wisdom from someone who doesn't understand adultery, or MB for that matter. But spending time with family is not a luxury I normally have, so it will be a good experience. We take the train to NY with D8 for the w/e and will be seeing a Broadway play, skating at Rock Center, and eating Hogies (or whatever they call them there).

The plan is to continue to enjoy this time. We'll see where ww is "at" when she returns, or next time I talk to her. I hope there will be progress and Plan A will simply continue, but I have no expectations. I'll plan to re-evaluate the situation after I see her behavior (overt and covert) for a week or so after the trip.

opt

Hey Opt,

How are you doing during your 'respite'? Hope you and your daughter are enjoying the bonding time.

Hey, thanks for asking Limbo. Overall pretty good, although I'm not getting the break I thought I would from plan A, quite honestly. I've been a little obsessed with updating my FB with things "potential OM#2" will see and hopefully make him think twice about flirting with her on her page, meeting her for cigarettes on the porch and generally being a f'ing nuisuance to my effort to reconnect with my wife. I scanned a bunch of old pictures & put them on my page. Complimented her openly and publicly (although I only have about 60 friends, not like some people with hundreds), and have made a few comments about 'family' and how important our family is to us. I've also continued to write her letters and put them in her FB inbox (since I know she can't get her e-mail...) so when she gets to a computer, she'll know we're continuing to think about her and pray for her- they're also giving her an account of what we're doing, something I read in another thread that can be meaningful to a travelling spouse/plan A type stuff.

Unfortunately, last night I had a dream that she was having an affair with someone on the trip. Of course I convinced myself in the middle of the night that she was developing a relationship that she would then continue to carry out via e-mail etc. when she gets back. I have about that much trust in her. I also have confidence in her ability to be devious and secretive enough to actually carry this all out without much notice of our son, her Father, and her future step mother. In some ways I'm now hoping that she's motion sick and sitting in the cabin a good part of the time. I guess that's what infidelity does to a person.

I've spent some time with daughter8 going through some old pictures and some letters from me that WW saved from way back when. We had fun and I think it's important for the kids to know our history. My daughter has been fairly quiet up until now about the turmoil of the M. She's opened up a couple of times about how she doesn't want us to divorce. She even has ideas about things I can do to "make mommy fall in love with you again." She helped me pick out a little gift for ww for when she gets back. I wish ww could hear some of the things she says. WW fog has had her convinced that Daughter8 was "just so resiliant, and she'll be fine" type of BS that ww's come up with. She's actually very concerned. But I've been a pillar of strength for her and will continue to be no matter what, so I know she'll be okay no matter what- she's my responsibility, even if that means solely mine.

Well, thanks again for asking as you compelled me to get a few thoughts out of my head. Maybe I'll get better sleep tonight.

opt

N2F, I wanted you to know I am continuing to "blaze" through this thread. It's been very helpful and I thank you for the recommendation. I'm over half way and (obviously) have also been going through my own thread with the small amount of extra time I've had during ww's absence. I hope you'll give TMTS my regards and let him know his work is continuing to help others even while he's in the next phase - I hope him and FWW are doing well.

Reading my thread has been eye-opening. I think I've come a long way. This whole experience has been a life changer. I've had a chance to talk to my sister a LOT for the last few days and been able through those conversations to solidify and prove to myself my conviction. This isn't temporary, plan A and MB has inspired a paradigm shift and I've adopted a new belief systed about the "way things work" (as Steve puts it -as he refers to R's).

Meanwhile a strange thing is happening. Having her not here is somehow a drain on her Love Bank. I'm having trouble not focusing on the negatives (like the A and continued development of "friendships" lately). Maybe I'm just feeling more confident and strong in myself. Or is it that she's not here to even make deposits with me?

I am being unfair to her by projecting pessimism about whether she will be less foggy when she gets back. Or am I just trying to protect myself against the possibility that she'll go back to her wayward behavior?

Any thoughts? ------and thanks-------

opt

Just stop worrying about it for now. Nothing you can do. Leave it, and enjoy yourself and work on yourself and do things you never do when she's around because it would have taken away from family time. Start some new traditions with your daughter (your daughter's there, right?).

I agree with Cat. You are worrying about future events that may or may not even happen. Try to live in TODAY. You have done some awesome things to save your marriage. Use this short break to be good to yourself. Faith replaces fear. Have faith that the steps you are taking will work and stop living in fear that they won't. I know, easy to say but hard to do.

Yup, you're right. I'm thinking too much. We're going to enjoy the w/e before they return and that will help.

Hey, I might have made a mistake today. I was talking with MIL and mentioned my concerns about the "long-time friend in the family -she doesn't think of him in that way" potential OM#2. I explained that there is more going on than she knows including all sorts of flattery on the FB, trips to the tanning salon and grocery store, hugs and "i'll miss you's." -I didn't even mention how defensive ww gets when challenged a little on the nature of their relationship.

I have been developing a very good rapport with MIL and she considers herself an ally to me and the M. Did I overstep any plan A boundaries by expressing my feelings that there's more going on than ww is letting on?

opt

got it. thanks

opt

FWIW I don't think so. I have shared almost everything with my MIL to this point. If WW decides to work on recovering the M, then I will completely back off with the MIL. I heard it said that WS family should be told, but not become a part of recovery. I also heard it said that they can and should be included in efforts to end the A.

I would just watch the boundaries. JMHO (Just my humble opinion??)

My father-in-law and mother-in-law were part of my support system during my wife's affair. The only family member that supported her affair was my sister-in-law... though really, it wasn't support, it was the common "she needs to do what makes her happy and I want to stay out of it" speech I got over and over again during exposure.

The in-laws were a huge help, talking me through some of my difficulties, sharing their own difficulties (her dad had an affair in his thirties, and an EA a few years ago, now in his late fifties) and consoling me through mine. As well as whacking FWW with the clue-bat periodically.

WW and DS13 are in the US and I will pick them up at the airport at 2pm.

Not much time, but a quick update is that I'm a little nervous but not as much as I could be.

The last 2 weeks has been like a mini plan B (no contact with ww possible for most of it) for me and gave me a lot of confidence that I can live without my w (although I would much prefer NOT to, lol). I feel like its' the confidence I need to continue with a fabulous Plan A with NO EXPECTATIONS.

opt

Good luck, opt. Keep us posted. It will be interesting to see how she greets you!

Greet her with her favorite flowers.

ww: Still wayward. Still foggy.

Me: No expectations.

Anyway � here�s the update:
Greeted at the airport. Obligatory hug and short conversation, then she went off and talked with the (female) cruise director for a while and looked for her luggage. I wasn�t getting the vibe I had hoped for. Oh, well.

I dropped them off at home, but had to go back to work for a little while. She noticed a change I had made in the decorating scheme in the hallway: I changed some old pictures of DS13 with some pictures from our wedding (later that night she would tell me that she felt I was trying to manipulate her with that). We had time to open a couple of the little gifts that D8 and I picked up for her while in NY. Incredible how unappreciative a wayward can be- hardly a �thank-you.� Totally self-absorbed & entitled, traits she NEVER used to have.

Another change I had made was that I converted her �bed� in the �guest room� back to a couch. She had slept in our bed the night before she left, and it was entirely inconvenient to have the bed in there with nobody even sleeping in it, so I felt it was appropriate; I figured I could change it back IF she wanted. Well, of course, she wanted, and it turned out to be enough of an infraction that it came up right away. �Why did you fold the bed up?� I pointed out the inconvenience and said I�d put it back but then the subject dropped until bed time when she said she�d sleep in our bed which she did for about 20 minutes then went to the couch. This change was another part of the �I feel you�re trying to manipulate me� sentiment mentioned above. I did a good job verifying this statement and not trying to justify it. I said I�d change everything back and I said it in a nice loving way. I told her I had had some time to think about us and just wanted to have some memories of better times around. Not sure how this was all received but it didn�t turn into an argument, so that�s good.

The FB thing came up in the same conversation. �You know that was a little bit rude to go in and alter someone�s page, right?� Of course I affirmed this as much as I could (�it was risky�) but resisted the temptation to point out that it is also rude to portray oneself as �not married� by leaving their R status blank. All-in-all I really think this obvious LB was worth the risk because Potential OM #2 definitely got the message that at least one party in this marriage still considers themselves married and he (the victim of xw�s affair) is tampering with more than he bargains for with cultivating his R with my W.

Today, her FB status was changed back to �not married.� That one hurts a lot more than I thought it would.

She figured out her email PW�s were screwed up. Hopefully that will blow over without incident.

So, that�s the bad news. My next post will outline the few glimmers of hope, some of my impressions and the things I've learned from the last few weeks; and my resolve to continue with Plan A for the time being.

opt

(...followup)

Here�s what I did right:
I listened intently to all the stories about the trip. She had met a lot of interesting people and was quite excited. I listened well and asked good questions to keep it going the best I could. [never once did she ask about our experience while she was gone�and I didn�t spend much time interjecting with it].

I made a nice T-bone dinner for them both when I got home from work (DS loves steak, ww loves mashed potatoes).

After dinner I sat through the viewing of literally 500+ pictures. It really was interesting � unbelievable terrain/views etc. After about 400 of them she started reaching over and touching me on the arm while telling the stories of a picture. I thought that was a good sign, it was like she was trying to connect with me, at least for that particular time. Either way, it didn�t go un-noticed.

Again, as mentioned above, no arguments came from her �addressing� the changes I had made while she was gone. Typically, those conversations don�t end well around here and I was pretty happy to have come away from it without negativity.

After I affirmed and re-affirmed and didn�t react negatively to her comments, she flipped around from being upset at me to the old �maybe we can live together as friends� theme about the future. I let that one drop per Plan A. Frankly, I�ll take that over other things she has said which were much more severe (trial separations, D, etc.).

**The letter campaign APPEARS to have had no effect whatsoever. However, I look at those (and all the other efforts) as rocks placed under the water as foundation for what�s to come, with any luck. As far as that goes though, I also feel I�ve learned the importance of not just COMMUNICATION to my ww, but that what�s most important to her is HER COMMUICATING her feelings to ME. Clearly, me communicating with her while she was gone did very little in the way of meeting EN�s. Therefore it would stand to reason that her talking and being listened to is extremely important to her. This is also an EN that most likely she is having met by (previously) OM and possibly now by POM#2. Unfortunately, I have given her little reason over the past 15 years to trust that she can come to me with her thoughts/feelings (DJ�s and tendency to be �hurt�/reactionary). So, Plan A has to focus on meeting this EN when possible and consistently not reacting negatively to anything she states (Limbo was advised by a vet of something similar recently).
opt

Wow opt - you sure do earn your nickname. You have a great attitude. I'm not sure I could have stayed as cool as you did considering her reaction. Changing the FB status back would have done me in. Good for you in how you handled it.

Well done. You're throwing a lot of 'rocks' into the stream to build that footbridge, and I hope that you will soon see some significant progress. You deserve it.

Hey thanks Linus, I was needing some encouragment as inside I was feeling pretty low about that a good part of the day. For the Record, I know I have some of this coming, since it was Independent Behavior that I used to change her status in the first place. So, although it was difficult not to "react" to this shenanigan, I tried to recognize the LB aspect of the situation.
I forgot the funny part of all this FB stuff: last night when she confronted me I looked up with a big smile and said "did you like my improvements?" Went over like a fartinchurch, but in retrospect it was kinda comical.

Development:
Finally tonight we had a few minutes alone (DS basketball and D8 to friend neigbor). I took the opportunity to ask if she "had anything to talk to me about regarding your facebook status showing you as not married."
Well, she went to 3 different levels of explanation in about 15 seconds (fog-babbly type stuff). The more I listened without reacting, the more she elaborated. It was quite brilliant in a way. Remembering past mistakes, I even navigated well by not apologizing, or even recognizing outloud my role in the whole thing (I kinda already did that last night). I just listened and affirmed "I can see how you would feel that way." After her head stopped spinning on it's axis for a minute, the bottom line finally came out: she changed it back b/c she was hopping pi$$ed that I changed it in the first place.
So, once she got that out guess what happened next? She actually came upstairs and initiated a bit of a conversation. (!) Of course I again implemented all my new techniques (Friends/Enemies of Good Conversation from this site). We proceded to have a very meaningful conversation. A couple of drifts into R talk, but I was able to quickly redirect. Lots of fog phrases "...maybe that means we just weren't meant to be together...We're drifting apart..." Oh, and a killer: " I want to be someone my kids look up to as a role model." I almost burst out laughing.
Any insight into this one would be appreciated: She was talking about how we both seem to be going through "paradigm shifts" (me with being more "conservative and dependent" lol/fogbab and her "more open minded and liberal and more independent" fogbab) but something that stuck out was: "Your reading all these books and going to those chat rooms is freaking me out"
[color:#FF0000]What is that, and how do I respond without LBing?![/color]
Anyway, I digress.
It was a good 15-20 minutes of Undivided Attention and she seemed to respond well. Later I actually got a couple of nice sincere hugs before she retired to the couch, lol (wacky waywards, I still have no idea why she won't sleep in her bed. It's not like I bite. I just don't understand the "statement" she is making and for crying out loud this bed is comfortable). I plan to ask her more about this now that I have started to develop some trust - although I know one battle is not the war. I have a lot of proving to do to get her to trust that I can really be someone to talk to and meet that EN.

Well, thanks folks for your interest and thoughts.

opt