Oh yeah!

My 12 step program is for my porn addiction. I am happy to say, so far, I have that well under control.

Thanks
DT

In my 27 years of sobriety in AA and helping many others through the 12 steps, I've never quite heard step three put that way, but I guess that's a start.

From chapter five of the book Alcoholics Anonymous The how and the why of step 3 begins with;
"First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn't work. Next we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principle; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.........
We were now at Step Three. Many of us said to our Maker, as we understood Him: "God I offer myself to Thee - to build with me and to do with me as Thou wilt. Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will. Take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear witness to those I would help of Thy power, Thy love, and Thy Way of life. May I do Thy will always!" We thought well before taking this step making sure we were ready; that we could at last abandon ourselves utterly to Him"

Is this what you did??

DTeas, This statement worries me greatly. Whenever anyone says, I have it under control, I get worried. Step one is admitting YOU are powerless! Step one is a "I Can't" statement. Step two is a "He Can" admission. Step three is a "I'll let Him" surrender.

Make sense?

DT:

I just wanted to comment on this paragraph:

Your WW didn't go to LV becasue she knew it wasn't the right thing to do.

And she is no longer dealing with the same old DT. She sees that YOU have started to focus more on the family, and becomeing MORE of what you used to be when you met and married.

If your going to recover this marriage, those are the things that you need to continue doing.

LG

TST

As for my steps, under control means my urges and temptation have been almost non-existent because I have been going to meetings, working my steps. You are correct, I don't have it under control. But my programs has helped me to have a new way of thinking, one which I need to choose each and everyday. I am at day 50 of sobriety, I am sure you know better than me how tenuous that can be.

As for the different version of step 3, not sure why it's taught differently. Working with my group, the "willingness" part was focused on because so often people backslide. Willingness allows room for doubt, while still offering a new way of thinking and reacting. I was never a very spiritual man before, so I don't claim to know how God works. But I am willing to accept that God has brought me to MB and that God will help me learn what he wants me to learn as I read the advise of other.

In SAA, there is a lot of focus on going back through the steps, with the assumption that each time through, the addict learns the true power of the step more fully.

For all the devastation my cheating has caused, I do feel blessed that I have come to learn that my compulsive use of porn opened the door for me to devastate my family. I am committed to slamming that door shut for good.

DT

Lousygolfer

Thanks. I know that the only thing I have even the slightest control over is to be the best me I can be. I do believe I have made good strides, and realize I still have a lot of work to do. Everyday I fight resentment and insecurity which will derail my growth process and create the risk of LBs. I am working on patience too. Yesterday I was able to stay patient (barely) and was rewarded for it.

I have gotten a lot of advice to expose my wife's affair, just as if it were a first affair, not a rebound. I worry that may backfire. But I do see the logic. The entire world knows that I cheated, including my kids, and I am dealing with those consequences as is right. Only a couple of "kick his [censored] out" friends know of my wife's affair. Not her family, not her therapist, certainly not the kids. So she is getting to lead a fantasy life without dealing with the consequences of her reaction to my affair. I really don't feel comfortable exposing her affair, but I also see the logic in it.

DT

This sounds AWFULLY FAMILIAR!! DUDE

DTeas, Step three is the same step in AA as it is in SAA. ALL the steps ARE the same! The reason it is being taught differently is because the people leading the group are expressing opinions. At most SAA meeting the length of sobriety is weak at best and many of the people that attend do not have sponsors that kick their A$$ to work the steps as they were intended.

What I often see at meetings is the attitude that, I work my program and you work yours. This is a common falacy that occurs. What these members fail to see is there is only ONE program. The same is true for MB, but many people still want to customize things to their own likeing. When it becomes personally customized, to suit the individual, it is no longer the program that has been proven to be successful, it's something entirely different. And did I mention the likely results are nil.

You mentioned that step three was explained as having a willingness. You must be "willing" to work any step, but step three is not about willingness, it is about "Making a Decision". Making a decision means a "committment" to do what you have decided to do..... I hope this makes sense to you. I get aggggrrrievated when I see that memebers are explaining the steps incorrectly to someone new whether it's an AA, SAA, or NA meeting. Step three is making a decision to surrender entirely. That is what you are doing, surrendering. You choose to surrender your will and your life to the care of God as you understand Him. Once you surrender, the action part of the program begins by working steps 4-9. Though the decision to surrender is a vital decision, it will have little permanent effect unless it is followed by a strenuous effort to clean up the wreckage of our past.

If you would like some one-on-one help with the 12 steps, you can notify the mods and ask them to exchage e-mails with me. I would be happy to help.

TST

From the SAA big book: "But it is helpful to remember that all we are doing is making a decision to turn our will and lives over. At this point in the program, we are simply willing to move forward. We decide to make a commitment to recovery, and to our spiritual growth. For most of us, the actual turning over of our will and lives to the care of God will take place gradually, through working the remaining nine steps." This is where I am. I am comfortable with my group, pray each day for a better understanding of step 3 and I ask God to reveal his wishes for me for that day. For me I like the recognition of progress, day by day. The problem with forums or e-mail is that tone and emotion are lost in the words. Your version of step 3 seems to be more demanding and less patient. That may not be your intention. I hope as a fellow human in recovery you can appreciate the progress I have made so far, if the "perfection" of the 12 steps seems too daunting it gets tempting to just give up.God has lead me to the group I am working with. He has also brought you in to my life to give me food for thought. I am thankful for both.

DT

DT, please remember that committment and working the remaining steps are critical to sobriety. FWIW, I've attended SAA meetings too, so I'm very familiar with them.




It's not MY version. Everything I have written its straight from the book "Alcoholics Anonymous" and it is what all other 12 step programs attempt to emulate.

My intention is not to be harsh in any way. I am however, very direct. When I post, I like to get to the point.

I will take the time to remind you that you came to this forum for help. If you want to pussyfoot around with SAA, the 12 steps, and MB then you are likely to loose the battle for your marriage and may even loose yourself or your life in the process. It's that serious! For me, personally, I view it as life or death. And yes, the 12 steps ARE demanding. They require enormous energy. MB is demanding too and it will require enormous energy combined with a miracle from God if you are going to recover this marriage. We are all here to help you.

I can see you are grateful thus far and you will need to keep an attitude of gratitude to succeed. You may feel like you are investing some hard work currently, but I would like to caution you that if your wife does come around to agreeing to recovering the marriage, the amount of work required on your part will feel like 10x what you are currently putting forth.

My offer to exchange e-mails still stands. Some men took the time to help me one-on-one through e-mail and I offer that up when I feel it may help someone.

With the important difference that, if someone doesn't know, you need to tell them that you had an A too, but have ended it and committed to repairing your M.

To avoid telling someone who doesn't already know, will cause them to (rightly) feel as if you haven't been honest when they do find out, probably from WW.

By telling first, the wind is taken right out of her sails when she says, "Oh yeah??? Well, did he tell you what HE did?!?!?! Um, he did? Oh."

Neak is absolutely right. You cannot expose her A without discussing your own A in the process. If you withhold the info about your own A, you will be seen as a liar and a manipulator by those you expose to and also by your wife.

But expose you must if you want any chance of recovering this M. Her fantasy needs to end. all exposure needs to be done in a very short period of time. A day or two at most.

Do you know if OM is still married? If so, then you need to expose to his wife too.

TST

I appreciate your offer to help, and I remain committed to my personal recover and to trying my hardest to fight for my marriage. Having read SAA, I get confused about how to fight from my position. It seems so geared toward both being on board, I have driven her from the boat. So the application of the Basics as it pertains to EN, since we are separated, I have no opening for direct physical affection, very little opening for conversation and her current behavior challenges my ability to show my admiration. I am providing domestic support and family commitment and trying to help her feel more comfortable with the financial security even though things will be extremely challenging balancing two households.

I would like to hear from you and others a specific strategy for a Plan A when she's living at her mom's and we see each other only in passing as we exchange the kids.

Thanks for you offer. How do I ask for direct e-mail?

DT

Just click the "notify" button at the bottom of this post and ask the moderators to exchange emails with me and they will take care of that some time in the next day or so.

I will work on some suggestions when time permits...... I'm off to play with my kids for the night and tomorrow we are traveling to family for a holiday celebration.

Read Brightlions thread in the recovery forum when you have some time and then read Looking4's too. They are both Former Waywards trying to recover the marriage with a spouse that is hesitant. Some great posts on both of their threds.

Happy New Years DT! {{{{{{{{DT}}}}}}}}}

TST

Have a great time with your kids. I will get to finish my 2009 with my kids and start 2010. I just wish it was the four of us. I am also watching my brother-in-laws son and daughter. It bugs the hell out of my wife because she thinks it's "fake" and "trying to get to her". They have been my family for a long time too, and I haven't stopped loving them. I just remind my wife, "remember I am working hard trying to get in to heaven"

My resolution for 2010 is to live my life connected to my family and friends and nurturing those relationships. Everyday I will make a decision based on my love for one of my family members or close friends and I will make my self of service to someone with no expectation of anything in return.

I lost myself somewhere along the way, my resolution is based on me becoming again the person I always wanted to be.

Happy New Year