You will find this book here
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html

or from the Amazon. Or from the bookstore near you...

Do NOT tell your cheating wife anything about this site or marriagebuilders methods. You are in war now and you will reveal your battle plan if you do so. You cannot educate waywards.

Citation from Bob Huizenga ("How To Break Free From The Affair"):

"The actions and thoughts of your spouse primarily originate from her need to attach to another person. Any behavior or concept that serves the purpose of maintaining the attachment will be valued. Others are discarded."

If you start plan A or plan B, just DO it.

But first of all, you need to find out what is really happening in your life. I�m sorry to say, you will not succeed with it without snooping because your wife will do everything to keep you blind.

A place to start:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1572288

Thanks, I ordered the book. I hope it helps! As far as snooping, it is going to be harder to do now that she lives so far away. I can still check her e-mails, myspace, facebook, etc. We have separate cell phone accounts now so I don't think I can track the calls made. I'll just have to make do with what I have I guess.

HB77, listen to the ones who have been here a long time because they have good advice. You don't have to take their advice but listen to it because you might use it later on. A friend of mine gave me the SAA book and it led me here. The book was a life saver for me and so is this site. The book helped me to understand what was happening and it did make me feel better. It won't take away your depression but at least you will understand things better.

FBW-me 44yrs
FWH-him 47ys
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 4yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs
DD 19yrs
D-DAy#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
FWH left 7/25/2009
FWH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009

I'll be the contrarian in your situation, but do wish to offer you some food for thought.

You married a cheater. She violated your trust many times and if you think she only did it four times and only with this one guy, then I have a bridge to sell you.

You have to ask yourself some very tough questions:

Why do you want her back? Love isn't enough. What makes her so great that you can't find the same or better with another woman who won't cheat on you?

Why do you feel you're not better than this in terms of what you expect from a spouse? You have not children with this woman. She has already moved away. She really has absolutely no incentive or motivation to return to you other than you. There's no family to restore or stability to provide kids, so why would she possibly want to come back?

You can't Plan A someone who has moved away. You can Plan B, but with no incentive for her to return I would say your chances are very low of recovering your marriage.

You claim she is remorseful. If she is, then why won't she move back and work on her marriage?

Have you installed a keylogger on your computer and have you checked your phone records?

I'm not a save a marriage at all costs person. I feel that if you've been cheated on and have no kids that you should kick the other person to the curb, count your blessings to have them out of your life, and then go find someone who is worthy of you.

No person is worth the pain and agony of the recovery process when there is nothing to restore and no kids in the picture. There are TONS of great women out in the world. A cheating one isn't worth saving.

How long have you been married for?

I'm not exactly telling you what you want to hear, but the questions I ask are valid nonetheless. Why do you want someone that you have no real ties to and who has betrayed you several times back in your life? Every time she slept with that man (and possibly others) it was a betrayal. So why can't you do better than this?

You must be young. How old are you?

You have to start this journy by loving you first and taking care of you. That starts with accepting that you're better than this.

But I'm in the minority on these boards.

I can see where you are coming from and I do appreciate your opinion and advice. You're right, I probably do deserve better, but it still doesn't take the pain away or the fact that deep down I really do still love her. Though it does keep the anger alive. For the most part I am scared to start all over again and feel that all the good times and memories we shared were all for nothing. Unlike her, I take marriage very seriously and I planned to always keep those promises made on our wedding day. I feel maybe if I don't try my absolute best to make it work, that I would be letting my family and friends down and most importantly myself. I don't want to regret that maybe there was more I could do or could have done, even though I feel I've done the best I can. I am fairly young still I guess, 32 years old. We have been married for close to 6 years now and were good friends/dating for 3-4 years before that. We used to do everything together and I was even the first person she was intimate with. I understand that the odds are against us getting back together, but at least I want to know that I tried my best. Even if she doesn't. I don't know if all that makes any sense but I just hold on to hope when there is little.

Is there anyway I can track her phone, texts, etc? She has a Blackberry. What is flexispy?

I am able to check her phone bill online and I found at least 7 or 8 calls to and from the alleged OM in the month of December, including at least 3 calls after she had confessed and was packing to leave. She told me at the first of the year that she had no contact with the OM for a while. If this is really the guy (like I suspect it is), then she has been lying to me again. Should I tell her that I know about the calls? Do you think she will just keep on lying or come clean?

Also, should I contact the OM or would that just make things worse?

In her mind a week is awhile. She is lessening the damage. WW's do that.

Instead of confronting, if her packing was before January 1, then best to sit tight and continue to monitor calls to see if NC is broken.

Thank you. Good advice.

It sounds like this is all the woman you know. Part of the problem is that you don't know better since you haven't dated other women.

Yes, it hurts. I don't deny that. Took me a few years to get over my pain. I won't minimize that. But once I got over that pain I realized that while I may have all those memories from the marriage, there were many new ones to be made and dwelling on the past and how "great" things were got me nowhere. Things couldn't have been all that great if she cheated or they were only great on your end.

She's moved out. You haven't had a chance to do a Plan A. Plan B is in order, but the odds are very low against you because she has zero incentive to return to you. Even if she does return to you you will find yourself with the sudden realization that you have had a cheating woman return. So now you're the one stuck with the leftovers after she's gone out, had her fun, tested the waters and realized things weren't all that great, then returned to you all used up.

You're 32. That's young and the women in their 30s are awesome. Your WW is nothing special. There's nothing that she has to offer that can't be found with someone else who hasn't betrayed you.

If she comes back you will always wonder about her.

And you shouldn't be surprised she's lied to you. It's but the tip of the iceberg my friend.

I've seen some men on this board get totally hung up on a woman that they have had no children with and who is out jumping from OM to OM and leaving the BH hanging and hoping. Don't be that guy. Today it's this OM, tomorrow it's another.

The best thing you can do is disappear and go to Plan B.

Trust me, I know you love her and it hurts, but you have no kids with this woman. No incentive for her to return. Call it a loss and don't waste any more of your time or tears on her. Think of Beyonce's song. You didn't betray your vows or turn your back on your marriage. She did.

She's likely not to come back until she's played the field enough to realize things with you were not that bad. Do you really want to put your life on hold that way?

You're probably right. I know this is pretty new to me and you are able to speak from experience and are wiser than me in this matter. When I was younger, I was cheated on by a girlfriend and it was very hurtful, but nothing like this of course. If nothing else, I really need to focus on me and making myself a better person at this time and surround myself with positive thinking, activities, friends, and family. I still feel very alone though and I'm sure that is a normal feeling. Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it.

Listen to helpthelostdads! You have no kids with this woman and will never have to speak to her again...for your ENTIRE LIFE!

All the advice in the world won't help you...you have to make this decision on your own. Many here will tell you to try Plan A, Plan B, etc. Very few will say Plan D as I did. helpthelostdads is right, there are a gazillion other great women out there. She left you and has been with probably many more men than she is willing to admit to.

Let her run away. File for D and be done with her. LG

Heartbroken,

This is the Marriage Builders site, not the "go directly to divorce, do not pass Go, do not collect $200" site. I respect the opinions of HTLD and LG, but please consider them only as part of the mental process you must go through.

I don't see evidence that your wife is a serial cheater, has a disordered personality, is an addict or alcoholic, or any of the factors that might preclude recovering your marriage. Therefore, I urge you to consider ALL points of view.

And most of those points of view are going to be about recovering your marriage -- because that's what this site is all about! Before you rush out and file divorce papers, you first need to decide what you want. Do you want to end your marriage and start life over again, or do you want to recover it, build it stronger, and make it what marriages are supposed to be?

If the former, you don't need to be here. Of course, you can still learn how to be a better man and a better husband by sticking around and learning MB principles. But if you want to save your marriage and build it into something wonderful, then here is where you need to be and here is what you need to do.

First, click the links to the right under "Most Popular Links." Learn about the Basic Concepts, Emotional Needs, Love Busters, How to Survive Infidelity and everything else you can absorb. Spend as much time as you can reading and learning the MB principles. You might also want to purchase the book, "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Willard Harley -- the owner of this site. If you can't find it in your local bookstore you can order it here. Many people report this book did wonders for saving their marriages!

Then learn how to stop thinking for yourself and let the wise hands here guide you. Not only is your wife not in her right mind now, neither are you. You are susceptible to making rash, irresponsible decisions and acting irresponsibly. Let those for whom the pain, humiliation, anger, bewilderment and anguish are emotions in the past help you along.

If your marriage can be saved, these people will help you do it. If not, then you will know you have done everything possible to that end, and you will have grown wiser and sturdier as a result. In the end, it's a win-win situation.

Please think about what you want, and then choose accordingly.

For some reason this quote seemed to belong here.

Heart Broken,
I think one of the worst type of betrayal is when a spouse is blindsided. I hated that my FWH didn't come to me and talk to me about what was going on in his head. He didn't give me the opportunity to help us.



I think only you can know if there is something here for you to stand on or if it's time for you to fly.

Gg

You know the problems now are caused by you picking women that are similar to your abusive mother.,

Had you been healed from all that you would have never picked a woman like your wife to marry. You could have gotten a much better far better woman.

I have only had a boyfriend cheat on me and therefore I did not marry him and dumped him. So it would be much harder if you trusted her and actually married her, it would ruin your life...unless you wake up, heal yourself, and get away from the cheater. /then if you are mentally healthy and over your childhood abuse, you could meet a great loving woman who would never ever abuse you or cheat on you,

I am talking to my husband here who has been cheated on not by me...and we say dump this total loser. Get yourself healed and then move on. To a better life.

HB,

Look, I support your effort to want to save your marriage. I fall into the school of thought that if there are no kids, then there really is nothing to save.

Others feel different and I respect that.

I am behind you 100% if you wish to do so. That being said:

You can't Plan A because she's out of the house.

What exactly is your situation? Does she contact you? Do you guys still talk? Are you in the same town? Does she want nothing to do with you?

Has she mentioned divorce?

If there is contact, then you have a chance to Plan A. If not, then I think it might be tough to proceed much further. Perhaps you have already done a Plan A. Plan B would involve writing a Plan B letter where you lay out the conditions she must meet in order to return.

Yes, this is a marriage building site, but I honestly don't believe a cheater is worth forgiving when kids aren't involved. The pain and anguish is so bad that I frankly don't think anyone is worth that kind of pain. Infidelity is one of those "get out of jail free" cards permitted in the Bible. It's one of the only clearly justifiable reasons.

Could you recover and have a stronger and better marriage? Yes, but only if you have a repentant and willing spouse.

After the he77 I went through, I've come to the conclusion that no one is worth the pain and literal heart damage I had over the grief I had to overcome. With a child, I'd consider forgiveness. Otherwise, I've learned that there are tons of women out there who are good and wouldn't cheat and that I'm too good for a cheater.

It's a conclusion one has to come to on their own.

HB, what exactly is happening?

Well helpthelostdads, we are still in contact (mainly just through texting on the phone). No we aren't in the same town (I'm in Utah and she is in Arkansas now with family). Some of the time we are very civil to one another and at other times we end up arguing. I demand to know more about the affair, especially what caused it. This usually leads to the friction. She believes that I (or possibly my friends) are going to get revenge on the OM. I can't really speak for my friends, but I am trying my best to take the high road here when it comes to the OM. I know where he lives, I know where he works, I know his phone number, etc. But I would really prefer to avoid a conflict there because of what I have learned from past experiences. I know what can happen and it just isn't a good thing in the long run.

At the same time, I have a lot of pride and don't like to be taken advantage of when I did not deserve this. I am much more concerned with the relationship between her and I now and if we can possible make this marriage work. Even if the marriage cannot be repaired, I want to know that at least I kept an open heart and mind about reconciliation and forgiveness. That I gave it my best try and then learn to move on.

On the phone she still tells me that she loves me and ruined everything (not sure how much truth there is to this or not) and that she wants to be back together with me someday. She just believes that we need the time apart to reevaluate everything and to improve on ourselves to make for a more loving, productive marriage in the future. She claims that she is open to the possibility of coming back to me if I move to a different city to continue my schooling and she could do the same ( I live in a small town with limited economic and educational opportunity). This has always been a source of friction in the marriage. It would be at least August before I would move to go to school because I have to graduate from the 2-year school I'm at now.

I wish I could tell you more. This is all so confusing and I'm not usually a guy who expresses his emotions very well (probably another LB). I sure do appreciate all the help and advice I have received so far. You guys are like my second family!

Thanks a lot fred, I'm trying to consider all my options and sure have been learning a lot from the folks like you on this site. Yes I did order the book and am anxiously awaiting it's arrival.

HB,

If you're in a lot of contact, then you might be able to Plan A from a long distance. It will be tough.

If you need to move to save your marriage, then do it. It really all boils down to what you value more, your education or your marriage. There's no right answer to that. Your education might serve you better if you were to divorce and move on with your life.

There may be an opportunity to do a Plan B and go dark which might shake her awake. The fact that she still contacts you is a sign she still values your affection at some level.

But she's in a fog where she thinks separation will help. It won't, especially for you. Separation from her affair will allow you to move on and you, not her, are likely to get to a point where you come to understand that you do deserve better and don't want her back in your life.

Call the Harley's for advice. It is not unusual for even Dr. Harley to acknowledge that a short marriage with no kids where infidelity is involved has very little chance. But he will also support you if you wish to try to save things.

My two cents is to write a Plan B letter and lay out your conditions for her to return.

Things you require: no contact with OM for life and a NC letter to him approved by you. She needs to move back and commit to your marriage. She need to quit protecting OM.

Lay those out as clear requirements.

Others here can help you write a letter.

But the fact that she still contacts you shows she values your attention at some level. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

From what I've discovered, it's also liberating.