I'm not sure. When we talked last 12/26/09, he said he's trying to figure out what's going on in his head. I told him it's hard to think clearly while OW is still in the picture. He said he knows...it's basically over...He hasn't spoken to her lately & hasn't taken her last few phone calls. I do really want to believe this but I know you can't believe what they say right now. When asked why H hasn't ended it already (H calls the A a huge mistake that he will regret the rest of his life) since he knows it was a wrong to do, He said he feels bad for dragging her into this situation. Hearing that, unfortunately, I lost my cool!! I agreed that he was partly to blame for that, but she willing entered this situation knowing full well, the night he met her, he was a married man w/3 kids!!! She was called some pretty colorful names & I told him he owes her nothing. Prob not one of my better moves, & hopefully that wasn't too detrimental to any future talks we might have.

Fogbabble. As long as he continues to have SOME contact with OW, he will NOT come out of the fog. Protecting her feelings should be the last item on his agenda.

The vets here are offering you good advice.

1. Exposue the affair.
2. Plan A him as best you can since he's not living at home. Others here have Plan A'd while living apart..it can be done. No relationship talk during Plan A! Simply fill his ENs. When he comes over, the house looks and smells awesome (choc chip cookies in the oven...), YOU look and smell awesome. No A talk or R talk.
3. At some point, you are going to get tired of Plan A. It's very difficult to be in a 100% giving position and not have your own ENs met in return. If your WH hasn't ended the A by this time, it's time to go to Plan B. Plan B completely stops direct contact between the two of you but also offers him a clear path home, should he want that. There are some great examples of Plan B letters out there. The last memories he should have of you should be of awesome Plan A.

TTG, did you read my post? I don't understand your response. The affair needs to be exposed. Did you read that part?

@tryingtogoon,

How do you Plan A when you're separated? You go on dates and find times to hang out with each other! Just like when you were courting. What's the worst that can happen: he refuses you or stands you up, right? Prepare yourself for that possibility, just like when you were dating.

If you meet with dating rejection repeatedly, hey, you tried. You'll learn it's time for Plan B or Plan D rather than Plan A. Those are the breaks, do what you need to do. At least you know you tried.

It may be a good time for a nice date with the wayward hubby. Set it up some place nice and have a wonderful experience together, focusing on enjoying the night together with little focus on the relationship. Be sure you have babysitters lined up and that the two of you have several hours to yourself in a superb environment.

On this date, be loving and engaging, your very best and the woman you were when he married you. But be firm. At some point during the date, emphasize and re-emphasize your minimum standards to consider recovery with him rather than divorce:

1. A no-contact letter that you approve and mail yourself, and no contact for life with the other women or any potential other women.
2. That he agree to establish Extraordinary Precautions together with you. This includes complete, absolute honesty, a change of phone numbers on his mobile, work, and home phones, removal of all paraphernalia related to the affair, and anything else you require to feel safe with him.
3. That the two of you will complete a course in marital recovery of your choice, regardless of the expense. I suggest you look at the options Dr. Harley recommends for undergoing marital recovery after an affair.

Right now, my wife and I are following Dr. Harley's home study course. It is working miracles in how we treat one another, and although we have substantial and painful setbacks from time to time, they are growing less frequent and our love is growing in amazing ways. Although I loved her, I was ready to live without her if she continued carrying on with the Other Man. Sometimes I think you have to know you can live without someone to realize you don't need them in your life; you WANT them in your life.

You are COMPLETELY wasting your time if you don't call all his important people and all HER important people, and expose the affair.

You not only have the RIGHT to expose, you owe it to your OLD husband, to fight to get him back. He will not do this on his own. You have to expose. He will thank you, once his fog is gone.

11/18 exposed to his P's, my Mother, & our fiends. H came home after work that day saying he wanted to work on M w/ counseling.
11/20 Both sat w/kids DS10 DD6--No sugarcoating--explained what Daddy had done & we were going to try to work to make things better. H reassured kids we weren't getting a D.
12/5 served D papers. (@ OW house BTW) Has never acknowledged them to

So, quite a bit of exposure has already been done. If you know ow address, you need to expose to people on her side.

In my humble opinion, you filed for divorce way too early on in this and have been over-reactive. No judgment here, just observation.

You have been doing a lot of love-busting to your WS.

Stop trashing ow, it doesn't look good on you, and you WS will just defend her now.

More exposure to ow side will help bust up the A.

Listen to Melodylane, she really knows her stuff and will lead you down the right path for recovery.

You need to slow down, you are only into this for a couple of months, and your WS has not had a long term affair, you have a good chance of recovery, listen to the advice you are getting and GET A PLAN!

Best wishes,
Love in Christ,
Miss M

Melody--Thanks again for responding, I have read other posts from you & you are very knowledgable. I'm also happy to see you have been in recovery fo so long. I have exposed to my fam, Hs family, friends, people who I know through his work, neighbors. OW has been exposed @ her work due to my neighbor (works w/ OW that's how my H & OW met) They already knew her track record though. Surprisingly enough I have exposed to her brother & sis-n-law. Once I found out her last name I realized we know them from yrs past when we met them on our honeymoon. Small world!! The only other people that she hasn't been exposed to are her kids. From what I've been told they are 6 & 9

Cat--Looking back I know I acted hastily in filing for the D. I just thought that was the only option. I know now we didn't give ourselves a chance to fight for our M.

Miss M--your reply was very coincidental tonight. My H brrought the kids home (he had them overnight last night) We started talking & he said this situation is very hard, it sucks, told me the A wasn't about the OW, but getting what he wanted from me, from her. He said things happened so fast(meaning the D). He said he is going to see a therapist this week & maybe they'll be able to help him sort things out in his head. What those things are i don't know. I calmly mentioned the OW & he said it was over. believe him? I don't know--I want proof. He never said he wanted to work on the M, but he also said he's afraid that if we do work on it, what's not to say we wouldn't fall right back into the same place we were in after some time had past. He doesn't want to say anything that might lead me to believe he wants to work on the M just in case it doesn't go that way & I would feel mislead & hurt again.

My Plan? I'm a slow learner right now. Plan A? Try as best I can to meet his EN even while he's living outside the house? Do I ask for the NC letter to be written? or is that only if/when he comes back wanting to work on the M. Bide my time right now & show H I can be the wife I used to be? Dates? (since he isn't living in the house. Do I take the 1st step? I'm not quite sure I understand the whole Plan A thing especially since he isn't living in the same house.

Please help!!

Plan A...
Smell good
Look good
Pay attention to him when you do see him
Ask him about how he's feeling, what his goals are, how he thinks life is turning out...talk about HIM
Have his favorite foods cooking when he's around
Stuff like that.

Dr. Harley says that an already-written No-Contact letter is not a prerequisite to ending separation following an affair, but de-facto No Contact and full transparency IS.

I still say go on a date with the plan to enjoy one another's company, and at some point during the night discuss your minimum standards for reconciliation... then arrange together to have him move back in, write the no-contact letter together, set your EPs, etc.

BB--Thanks for responding & It's nice to see you have recovered. I see him once a week when he comes to take the kids out to dinner. we have started the every other weekend visitation already. That being said I will try my damndest to show him that I'm still the person he married!! The whole date thing I think I'll give a little time to. He's going to see a therapist this week so I'll wait til next to see if he wants to go out.

I'm sorry--Minimum standards? this is only discussed if we decide to work @ rebuilding the M right? If none of that is mentioned just go on these dates enjoying each other but still trying to meet his EN?

Thanks again for your help.

From the tone of your notes, it sounds as if he's interested in reconciliation. You'll know if he's ready or not if he's willing to cut off all contact with the other person in order to reconcile with you, and willing to allow you full transparency into every part of his life to ensure his compliance with that requirement.

If I got that wrong, sorry for that. But doing Plan A from a distance is still possible (dates, letters, IMs, email, phone calls, etc.). Dr. Harley typically doesn't recommend very long Plan A attempts by women, though. Since he's already moved out, unless he's willing to commit to your terms for reconciliation soon, it may be time to Plan B.

The "minimum standards" for a return of a wayward are typically:
1. No contact for life with the Other Person. Dr. Harley suggests that you don't need to write the letter in your reconciliation talk, but get a promise that this letter will be written by the two of you, and sent by the betrayed spouse, before further reconciliation is possible.
2. Commitment to Extraordinary Precautions against further contact with the Other Person or potential other people, as specified by the Betrayed Spouse.
3. Full transparency into all aspects of the wayward's life. This means NO EXPECTATION OF PRIVACY at all going forward.
4. A commitment to a marital recovery plan of the Betrayed Spouse's choice.

Those four are usually the most basic part of Just Compensation for the betrayed spouse. Some opt for more conditions, but few recovered marriages settle for less.

The things he has said (ex. things happened so fast...filing for the D, He wished he would have talked about our problems w/me b4 it got to the point of an A, a huge mistake he will regret for the rest of his life, misses being home w/ us, still has feelings for me).

He did tell me he is seeing a therapist this week to help him figure out things in his head...what those things are I don't know--I didn't want to push him too much since we just started talking.

What he hasn't said is he wants to work on the M. He said he doesn't want to mislead me in thinking there might be a possibility of reconciliation in case that doesn't happen. He said he's also afraid to work on the M because of the chance we could slide right back into the bad place we were in.

I wanted to say if we commit to working on the M & w/ MC it will help us to not go back into that bad time in our M. I didn't, as I though it would make me look like I was begging him to come back. I would love it if he did, but I want him to want to come back because it's important to him. Not out of guilt or pity.

^

TT,

""I would love it if he did, but I want him to want to come back because it's important to him.""

This reminds me of those movies where the woman tells her girlfriends how much she loves her guy, and the guy tells his buds the same thing, but each one is waiting for the other to say it. And when that happens it is never said, and they drift apart...only to meet up 20 years later.

While your H is still seeing the sleazy tramp it is a distraction for him and a large slap in the face for you. He must commit to not ever seeing her again.

But why would he want to send a No Contact letter. He sees the big D on the horizon. You are the one that filed. Maybe you are the one to open that "move back in" door a crack. If he jumps on it and pursues it then good for you both. If he does not respond, then you know where you stand.

On another note to play the devil's advocate, just because he says OW is on the way out and he is not returning her calls DOES NOT MEAN IT'S TRUE!

Waywards lie, but you know that already.

""He said he's also afraid to work on the M because of the chance we could slide right back into the bad place we were in.""

This sounds very lame, weak, and densely foggy. Fog is what the WW are in while under the influence of the A and the Other Person.

This presence of fogbabble makes me think he is seeing her more than he is letting on.

IMHO

kirk

My FWH said the exact same thing and here we are six years later. I suggest you call the counseling center and get an appointment. They can coach you (both) back to marital recovery, if that is what you want.

As far as the divorce case, depending on what state you're in, you can always file a "Non-Suit" and then if either of you still want to D later on, you can refile.

Hi TTG,

Sorry you find yourself here. It is a sad place to be in the beginning but the advice and support are priceless.

Next time your WH comes to pick the kids up to take them out to eat during the week, have his favorite dinner ready. Wear something you know he likes, perfect your make-up and say, "Why don't you and the kids stay here and eat. There's plenty."

That may be all the opening he needs. Your situation actually looks way more hopeful than most.

God's Blessings,

Say

SNM--Thank for the great advice. It's funny you posted that, since this has all happened & I found out about the A, My H has never seen me less that that. I am always @ my best when I know I am going to see him. Also, last week a family friend passed away & I had to go to the wake. My H ended up staying @ our house w/ the kids while I went. (he moved out shortly after I found out about the A.) Where we live it's really cold right now. So I figured since he was coming to stay w/ the kids I'd have one of his favorite meals eady when he came. He was very appreciative. Had great talk that night...still won't commit to working on the M.

Last night he came to make sure we were ready for the big snow that was headed our way (make sure the snow-blower was gassed up & working properly). Again I had dinner ready when he came & It was something he usually made for us. I never made it as this was his specialty...He was very impressed!! Had another good talk. Asked if in the near future we could go out & talk w/o any interruptions (kids, dog, phone. Just us)...seems to be headed in the right direction...still won't commit to working on M.

Spoke w/ him tonight (usually calls a few X's a day to talk w/ the kids) He said things w/ the OW are now over. He spoke w/ her last night & explained we are finally communicating & w/ her in the pic that will soon come to an end. Also explained to her about our 10yr old that knows way more than a 10 yr old should & this is really affecting him & lastly his relationship w/ his parents is non-exsistent as long as she is still around. He did tell me no matter which path we go down, he had to get her out of the picture. Still didn't say he wanted to work on the M.

Not quite sure what all this means. I feel he is trying to take those baby steps towards recovery but he's not actually saying that's what he's doing. I do not want this M to recover on his terms. I think we should work towards recovery together but somewhat on my terms since he's the one who had the A. He needs to do what will make me comfortable. Am I off base on this?

Very good news. But you're spot on. You should NOT take him back unless he's willing to meet your boundaries - complete transparency, writing a NC letter that YOU send to OW (even though he said he told her goodbye - you still have to have that letter for psychological reasons), know where he is at all times, all his passwords...like that.

If you let him back without these things, it will just be easier for him to cheat the next time.

TTG,

I think you should come right out and let him know that he can come home but that the condition is that the affair is over for good, as proven by writing a NC letter.

Maybe also suggest counseling with the Harleys or attending a MB weekend...

From what I have seen in this thread, your marriage sounds very salvageable, way more so than many and at least a bit more than most.

I'd say to take a shot.

But that's just my opinion...

Bet you were expecting a lot longer post than that, huh?

You and everybody else...

Mark

Glad that you two have at least opened a dialogue. I would say right now, pay more attention to his actions than his words. Plan A yourself senseless. Be the W he thought he was looking for at that Halloween party, the woman he fell in love with and married but... Go slow for the sake of your children. A false recovery is hard enough on the BS. Set the bar high for his return home but let him know that what you really want is a completely recovered M and happily evder after with him.

You are in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say