Look at it this way. Your XH is a wayward. They think of themselves ahead of their kids' well-beings, almost always. If he gets flack from ds for bringing OW around, he will simply (most likely) stop seeing ds as much.

In a perfect world, sure, your XH would smack his forehead and say 'what was I thinking?' He won't. If your son were to dig his feet in the sand and say 'she is evil; I won't be around her,' your XH will just say 'ok, fine; see ya.'

THAT is the grey of the world I'm talking about, SW.

And you've already seen from your son's response that (1) he's changing what he says and does according to upsetting you or not; and (2) he is NOT seeing the black and white you are, but rather the grey of wanting to be with his dad AND OW.

So to continue to show him only the path of black and white - and of course she did wrong but so did your XH and you're not telling ds to not see HIM, your son will grow up confused, afraid to explore his own feelings, and determined that he has to mold into what everyone else wants.

And this is what happens in millions of blended families all over the world. Does it hurt? Of course. Can you stop it? Not really. Can you teach him to value his own morals while still acknowledging the grey of his dad's situation? Absolutely.

FWIW, I don't think the values change, on MB or in real life. Adultery is always wrong, and this woman did have a part in breaking up your marriage. That part of black/white doesn't change, in my book. So the "shades of gray" thing is tricky--I don't think that after divorce, the adulterous relationship is suddenly legitimized and perfectly okay.

So if it's not shades of gray, what is it? It's MESSY MESSY MESSY! Legally and practically, most of all. You are divorced, your power over his choices when it comes to what your son is exposed to is limited. And people (OW) that you would NEVER want around your son will be in his life. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Be the lighthouse, as they say at MB. Be his moral compass, but be very careful about demonizing his father or the OW (if she remains in your XH's life). Your son will figure things out as he grows and matures.

I know you posted in MB 101 b/c this is the forum you started on, but I would suggest posting this in Surviving An Affair, or on one of the divorce forums. Not that the advice offered here isn't good (it is), but you haven't heard from too many that have been in your shoes, and that might really help you at this difficult time.

Martes

Well, I can't afford to pay for his swim and piano right now either. I told Wxh this. I said, "I know this is not your problem, but thot I'd let you know in case you want to pay for it until I can again.' He asked me how much the activities are, I told him a week ago and that is the last I heard of it. So I assume he isn't going to pay for it. I am not going to beg him. Ds is VERY upset about no swim for now. He just now said he hates his dad for causing this. That is the most emotional he has been about this in a long time. I told him not to be hating his dad...just to realize it is a temp thing and we will get back to our routine in a few months.

Ask him to write a letter telling Dad how much the activities are. And where to send the money. Dad will come thru for him. I know he will. What Dad could refuse a son. If the Dad does not honor his sons request then the son will see how the Dad really is.

Why not bring it yo to EXH again. It's not like your asking everyday. If you ask one more time and he beats around the bush then drop it, but he may just be a butt or something else, or he forgot. Doesn't matter, just ask one more time.I say this b/c my DH had an ex-wife(no affair involved with us)and she would ask for things and he would be a moran man and forget. I told her to ask him again. She did and he would usualy go for it if he could.

I thought ds would bring it up to his dad...I feel a little manipulative though, outright telling ds to ask his dad for the money for those activities....does everyone think that is ok to tell ds to ask his dad for the money for swim and piano?

Seriously?

You want a 9 year old to say that to a grown woman?

NO!

That is parentifying your child.

If you can't talk civilly (sp?) to your ex about such things and you can't afford them, then they shouldn't happen. Your son should never even KNOW that such things cost money (well, barely, vaguely know). It should NOT be his issue. If you two adults can't deal with it, it becomes a part of ds's former life and you move forward with what you can afford now.

Well, I figured he could translate it into 9-year-old-speak, but if it helps:
"Hi, Ms. Skank. I've heard a lot about you. (frown)"

I agree that you shouldn't have your son ask for the money.

But, I do think it's reasonable for your son to understand that stuff-whether it be food, clothing, housing, or toilet paper-costs money. My child in kindy knows that our family needs to have income to have food, clothing, shelter. Now, I'd never ask my children to make decisions about the budget. But, they are allowed to make decisions on how to spend their own money, within reason.

SW, I see it this way with regards to funds for extra-curriculars: kids have to ask their parents for this.

"mom, I want to take piano."

"I'm sorry son, mom can't do that right now. How about you ask your dad?"

Dad's not going to be the big meanie, because mom already said she couldn't swing it. I don't see any problem with telling kids, "That costs a lot of money and we're not able to do that right now."

I tell my kids that all the time! I don't feel bad about it, either.

That reminds me of a SuperNanny episode of a Chinese-American family. Five kids, each kid had so many extracurriculars that they never stopped moving until at least 8pm every night. And THEN they all had to do their homework!

Nanny put visible pieces of each activity in a big pile on the patio. She had the parents pick up the things (including part of a drum set!) and put them in the arms of the kids to whom the activities belonged. At the end, you couldn't even see the kids, the piles in their arms were so tall! Things like a 6 year old was taking a course to improve his handwriting! It was funny watching that mom and dad grit their teeth to give up any of the activities. And the next day I read an article in Time about Helicopter Parents, and how we have to learn to back off and how much play time actually improves their brain function; Jet Propulsion Lab said that when they hire someone, they ask how much play time they had as a kid as opposed to structured activities.

I agree with too much activities being harmful...don't think ds has too much. He does 3-4 days a week of swim and 30 min a week of piano. Since he is homeschooled our schedule is very flexible and we are NEVER doing homework after swim or anything like that. I think the swim is really good for him all the way around (45 minutes per day) and he loves it.

Wow, getting conflicting advice on what to tell ds about the swim stuff. I told ds I mentioned it to his dad....and that is where I'm going to leave it. It won't kill him to go without swim and piano for 2 months....and if he wants to ask his dad that will be his call without me coaching him to do so.

Wxh did take ds shopping this weekend...bought him 2 pair of jeans, a pair of shoes and a hoodie..ds really needed that. I texted Wxh and told him I appreciated him buying ds stuff.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your having bad feelings for this other woman. There's nothing wrong with harboring a lot of guilt and resentment (though someone made a good point about your ExH being wayward before OW so it's not like this was the first time...)

But your son...well remember, you and ExH did not divorce your son. He still has a mother and he still has a father. OW or not, he still has a father.

If you were still legally married, then I think you'd have every right to tell your WH that he wasn't seeing his son around his OW...that's just plain and immorally wrong.

The rules do change when you get divorced SW . Doesn't mean everyone has to sing kum-buh-ya all of a sudden, but it does mean that you both get to date whomever you want.

I agree with no overnight guests of the opposite sex while there is a child in the houses.

SW - I can't remember, but does your son know about your husband's other affair with your cousin and the porn addiction?

No. I thot that was more than he needs to know.

I'm really glad to hear you had another talk with your son. IMHO this latest conversation was much better.

Do you realize the significance of this?


See, that's EXACTLY (I think) what all (some?) of us have been saying... he is basing what he does/says/thinks/wants on whether or not it will make you mad. His life is revolving around pleasing you. IMHO this is enmeshment; inappropriate boundaries; unhealthy. And giving a kid the task of "passing judgment" on his dad, and the responsibility of reporting back to you, was not healthy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It is very harmful to speak ill of (trash? demonize?) your child's other parent to the child. Harmful to the child. It's using them as a pawn, it only makes yourself feel better but doesn't do them any good at all.


This second conversation IMHO was a gazillion times better. You are now taking the load OFF his shoulders. See how relieved he was?

I'm sorry you feel sadder now than before. I'm not sure what to make of that statement. Your son feels relieved. I can imagine that it will be painful for you to lessen the enmeshment, but it is healthier for your child. I would feel sad about his comments indicating how much he was worried about making you mad, but I'd be glad now that he is feeling better.

I feel sad to think that ds will be around OW. I feel sad that he might LIKE her and her son..he probably will....she is young and her son is young and I'm sure they will do whatever they can to make him like her and her son. Maybe this is my denial coming around to face reality....I don't know. Honestly, I think they deserve each other and I sure don't want him back. He didn't 'choose her', I kicked him to the curb. I knew he would never touch me again and I thot long and hard about what could he do to ever get me back. There is nothing. I want nothing he has to offer.

Btw, I don't demonize him to ds. Not at all. I told him at the beginning of all this that his dad had made some really bad choices but that didn't make him 'bad'.

The man who is interested in me. He wants me to meet his son this weekend. But I'm no where near letting ds meet him. No way. I wish Wxh would do as much for ds. But I know I can't control that. I'm not even going to discuss it with XH right now. Too much anger going on about property settlement right now. He will see anything I say as trying to control him and being jealous of the OW. I am not.

Oh and also, I told OW back last summer that I didn't want her in my son's life. That if she tried that at any time before or after the divorce I would give her parents copies of WxH's porn usage and his nasty conversations/chats with my young cousin which was going on last summer while he was supposedly getting divorced from me to be with OW.

I'm guessing now that I will get advice from all of you to let that go? She clearly thinks he is worth that risk. She really really didn't want me to show her parents anything more than I already had.