|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888 |
Ladylonglegs, I think I was very much like you when I arrived here. I was undecided on whether I wanted to try to save my marriage, or whether I was too devastated by my wayward wife's (WW) betrayal. I received a lot of help from the people here, first to work on trying to recover my marriage, and then, ultimately, to save myself. This is the abbreviated version of the MB program to rescue a marriage from infidelity: - Kill the affair
- Employ MB principles to recover
Killing the affair means first exposing it to everyone who can or might have influence over the participants: employers, relatives, peers, associates. This is done in a "nuclear" fashion -- all at once. Coupled with the "I am the loving person you wanted and married 29 years ago" behavior on your part, this is called Plan A. Plan A rarely suffices to kill the affair by itself. So when Plan A has run its course, Plan B takes affect. Plan B is complete separation (you stay, he goes) and complete isolation. You do not communicate in any way, shape or form with your wayward husband (WH). At the point of departure, you hand WH "the letter" which discussed the reason for separation, identifies an intermediary of your choosing (for necessary communication between the two of you: taxes, child care, etc.). It also describes the conditions necessary for the two of you to begin discussing rebuilding the marriage. These start with permanent and total NO CONTACT (NC) with the other woman (OW). A NC letter is drafted by the TWO OF YOU and YOU send it. Other conditions might be a polygraph test, a medical test for STD, marriage counseling, a job change, a move of residence, and what the Harleys call "just compensation." There are the MB rules that are described here and in the Harleys' books. Plan A and Plan B may be the next steps, if you want to save the marriage. I sense that you are on the fence as I was. I finally made my decision and I'm happy with it. Now the decision is yours...
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assissi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,688
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,688 |
Feel with your emotions, think/act/speak with your logic.
Do not confuse the two. This is most important at this time.
Last edited by barbiecat; 01/17/10 08:49 AM.
Me; W 46 Him; H 46
2 girls DD19 DD16 Dated/Married total 28 years. ..I am learning and working on myself.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
Fred...my anger speaking....but why the hell should I do anything? He's the one who threw the bomb into our life. I think if he wants me, he needs to make the overtures, do the work...in fact, he needs to beg on his knees. I don't need him badly enough to ingratiate myself to him and treat him nicely while he screws another woman and gives her the emotional support and attention I should have as his wife. He's infatuated, addicted, whatever you want to call it. When I initally talked to him and told him to drop her as a student, he gave me reasons why a prof can't drop a final semester disseratation student.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888 |
Fred...my anger speaking....but why the hell should I do anything? He's the one who threw the bomb into our life. I think if he wants me, he needs to make the overtures, do the work...in fact, he needs to beg on his knees. I don't need him badly enough to ingratiate myself to him and treat him nicely while he screws another woman and gives her the emotional support and attention I should have as his wife. He's infatuated, addicted, whatever you want to call it. When I initally talked to him and told him to drop her as a student, he gave me reasons why a prof can't drop a final semester disseratation student. I totally get your anger, LLL. When I was betrayed by my wife, I held all the cards. I owned the house, the cars, the health insurance, etc. There were no reasons from a practical standpoint that I wanted or needed my wife back in the relationship. I simply wanted her back for the love I thought we shared. What we betrayed spouses have to deal with are "aliens" who have taken over our loved ones' bodies. They are in the depths of an addiction every bit as powerful as drugs or alcohol. Maybe even more so. Everything they say is to be disbelieved and minimized. They can't be trusted. They have crossed a line from which some never return. My first focus here on Marriage Builders is personal recovery. I wish to help people like you recover sanity, self-esteem and hope -- whether or not you ever recover your marriage. This can be done. In my case, I read the books, the articles and the posts here. I had to understand my behavior to understand what conditions existed that made it possible for my wife to have an affair. No, I don't blame myself (although the wayward spouse ALWAYS blames the betrayed), but I know that I fell short in the Emotional Needs (EN) department. I hope I have learned my shortcomings so that I will not repeat my behaviors in the future. There is a definitive plan for recovery here. It focuses on marital recovery, but even a marriage cannot recover if the people involved in it cannot achieve their own peace and stability. But even without marital recovery, there is personal recovery here. I hope you continue to share your story, your thoughts, your frustrations, your triumphs and your pain with us. Together, we can do what alone we cannot.
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assissi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,688
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,688 |
What you are feeling is pretty normal. You just found out! WS rarely "de fog" quickly.
Keep reading the articles and give yourself time to sort out your feelings. The vets will come along soon.
Denial, finger pointing, reverse blame, excuses and gaslighting are all 100% predictable WS actions- at first anyway. To you it is outrageous and extreeme, but around here, this type of BS action/reaction is as common as rain.
\
Me; W 46 Him; H 46
2 girls DD19 DD16 Dated/Married total 28 years. ..I am learning and working on myself.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083 |
Regardless of whether you want to save your marriage, right now, you should do these things:
1. Create a plan and execute that plan to destroy the affair and expose the affair. There are other men out there in that dept who haven't "cheated" just yet. A big blow up may protect their marriages. But it will also inconvenience the woman who called you to destroy your marriage and may wake your husband up long enough to look at what he's really losing by behaving like a juvie.
2. Read up on Plan A and Plan B. You may only be able to do one week of Plan A. But the reason you should do Plan A is to dust off your skills that you set aside to take care of your mother, and increase your sense of worth as a woman. It also gives your husband one last look at what he's tossing away before you go to Plan B and possibly to Plan D. Remember exposure must be nuclear and complete.
3. Plan B will be a comfort and solace to you as you toss the marriage ball to him and let him know he's going to have to do the heavy lifting to stop the D train from arriving at the station in due time.
Most women who feel like you, recognizing that the work may not be worth the reward have the position of greatest strength in recovering their marriages. You recognize that as he is, he's no great prize. Guess what - he's going to see that too and come running to save the marriage and do the hard work if you do this right.
Cheating robs a person of their authentic self. The man in the guest room in no way resembles the man you married. He is no great prize. But once he finds his authentic self, you could enjoy most of the ten years you planned originally with him. Perhaps it's time for the old man to retire, suddenly and dramatically and leave Ms. Hot Pants in her last semester of dissertation without an advisor willing to take on the trash. Oh Boo Hoo for her! She should have thought of that before taking on a lady of quality such as yourself!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,888 |
Perhaps it's time for the old man to retire, suddenly and dramatically and leave Ms. Hot Pants in her last semester of dissertation without an advisor willing to take on the trash. Oh Boo Hoo for her! She should have thought of that before taking on a lady of quality such as yourself! Ladylonglegs, I would print this out, tape it to your wall in front of your computer, and read it aloud to yourself every time you start typing...
Preach the Gospel every day. When necessary, use words. St. Francis of Assissi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
According to my H, only the death of a prof would be reason to leave a doctoral candidate in the last semester of disseratation. I told him it could probably be arranged!
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
Hot Pants is probably pretty stupid. I am in the same field as H although I'm not in academia. However, H and I have same professional world.....and I could do Hot Pants a lot of professional damage were I so inclined. My thoughts are turning evil......
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
According to my H, only the death of a prof would be reason to leave a doctoral candidate in the last semester of disseratation. That's his problem to deal with. In other words, his reasons for avoiding exposure should not become your reasons for avoiding exposure.
ManInMotion =========== (see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
H is now up and around house pouting and giving me silent treatment. Poor him, mean old wife won't let him sleep in his own bed with wife while screwing grad student.
He's probably weighing his options....wants girlfriend/scared of what wife will do next.....he's knows I can play hard ball and usually win if it is important to me. If I were him, I'd be nervous as hell. He's in a tight spot and I'm holding his career and balls in my hands. I like that frankly. I feel for women and men here who can't walk away for financial or family reasons. On the other hand, doesn't make me feel like there's much reason to keep him around.
I'm frankly surprised at myself. I'm not this kind of person, as a matter of fact I'm usually a very empathic, supportive person. I volunteer with charitable organizations excessively, work the soup kitchens and children's programs at holidays, and try to give back. But I want vengance for being kicked in the stomach by the person I've been closest to for most of my life.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083 |
search your WH's university policies and procedures. Here's the results of a quick search on the internet for one university: SECTION II. GUIDING PRINCIPLES.
Subd. 1. Values. In carrying out the institution's research, teaching, and public service mission, members of the University community (community members) are dedicated to advancing the University's core values. These values embrace commitment to:
* excellence and innovation; * discovery and the search for the truth; * diversity of community and ideas; * integrity; * academic freedom; * stewardship and accountability for resources and relationships; * sharing knowledge in a learning environment; * application of knowledge and discovery to advance the quality of life and economy of the region and the world; and * service as a land grant institution to Minnesota, the nation, and the world.
Subd. 2. Commitment to Ethical Conduct. Community members must be committed to the highest ethical standards of conduct and integrity. The standards of conduct in this Code, supported through policies, procedures, and workplace rules, provide guidance for making decisions and memorialize the institution's commitment to responsible behavior.
Subd. 8. Avoid Conflicts of Interest and Commitment. Community members have an obligation to be objective and impartial in making decisions on behalf of the University. To ensure this objectivity, community members are expected to:
* avoid actual individual or institutional conflicts of interest; * disclose potential conflicts of interest and adhere to any management plans created to eliminate any conflicts of interest; and * ensure personal relationships do not interfere with objective judgment in decisions affecting University employment or the academic progress of a community member. Your husband's definitely in the weeds, and could easily tenure a resignation, effective immediately if he were governed under similar rules of conduct. He could then slip into the private sector work with you and work on recovering his marriage. Either way, as a parent of a future university student (5 months), I would not want my son working on projects were one of his classmates was sleeping with the professor and getting favored status academically for it. At Texas A&M, they have an honor code that is binding to both faculty and students: What is the Aggie Code of Honor?
�An Aggie does not lie, cheat or steal, or tolerate those who do.�
The Aggie Code of Honor affirms values that apply to students, faculty and staff alike. This simple statement exemplifies two of our core values�excellence and integrity�and underscores our commitment to ethical conduct and compliance with laws and official policies. These core values forge a strong base to embrace our other core values of leadership, loyalty, respect and selfless service. I'm guessing that your university has both forms of behavior policies for faculty and staff. Find both, write a letter to his boss and the staff member governing students and blow this thing up by quoting from the policies and procedures of the institution.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
I know all university's have similar written conduct codes. Believe me when I say there would be a huge deficit of university professors if these codes were anything but just words. I worked in academia, was a master's and doctoral student myself 20 some years ago, and have lots of current contact with academics now both socially and professionally. Like many fields, it is rife with affairs between especially grad students and profs. I'm not saying everyone does it, but you can't help but notice how many profs are married to or living with former students. Its an epidemic. Unless a student files a sexual harrassment suit, the university (men mainly) administrators turn a blind eye.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,312
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,312 |
LLL,
Welcome to MB but sorry for your reasons for being here. Glad KA and others are giving you advice.
Do you have contacts in the media? Including that aspect in your letter to the university admin might be an option.
Ace
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr. 4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416
Member
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,416 |
LLL, As a teacher (who is also a FWW), the daughter of two professors, and the W of a doctoral candidate, I say your H's claim that he can't leave his PhD student at this stage is bull. My H has had two committee members change due to moves and illness. He will graduate in May, and at this point it's all just editing and revisions while he waits to defend. He wouldn't die if his committee head had to hand him over, and neither will this OW. Also, I don't care if she is 46, the fact that she is his advisee in a PhD program makes it at least as unethical as if she were 18. Maybe not as sensational, but definitely as unethical. And the bottom line is, he shouldn't be concerned about his career or this...woman right now anyway. It's his marriage that he should be concerned about.
I think one reason education is a "breeding ground" is because it is such a specialized and - at times - vilified field (how many politicians regularly bash schools/universities). It's also usually a passion for those who do it, so we share a lot with each other. Then there's the "intellectual" part. And that breeds major ego. Ego+affair=a nauseatingly obnoxious wayward.
I believe with all my heart you should follow this MB advice, even exposure. With great idiocy comes great responsibility - in other words, you have an affair, you earn whatever consequences you get. I live in a very small town. I have taught here ten years, received a lot of money in arts grants, been named teacher of the year, traveled doing conferences. When H and I decided to mutually expose (we didn't know we were doing anything MB; I had confessed and we just followed our guts), I knew that in this kind of town, half the town would know before long. I do think it has probably impacted my career. But that was MY choice. If I had not had an affair, there would have been nothing to expose. So those "hardships" are on me. Period.
My H is just about the nicest, kindest, most sincere person you would know. He doesn't have AO's. But after D-day, sometimes he just couldn't take it - the pain was so great. Your anger, shock, pain, disgust....they are all normal. It is a grieving process. Journal those feelings. Close your door and scream into your pillow. Take up a kickboxing class. If you are a person of faith, pray and even ask why. I can't tell you how many "zombies" my H killed off on the computer of how hard he pounded the keys of our piano back then.
I know I have rambled, but I hope something I said has been helpful. And I am also so sorry about your mother. I know you are grieving for that too.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I'm so confused in my thinking that I'm not doing anything for the moment. I'm a very logical thinker usually, but this has thrown me into emotional and mental confusion and I think I need some time to just calm down and think rationally about my options, what kind of future I want, and where he may or may not fit in to that. My mind is racing all the time and I'm vascillating betweeen tears and cursing him. LLL, welcome to Marriage Builders, I am sorry you are here. I understand your feelings completely because I am also a very logical thinker, but all that went out the window when I discovered my H's affair. So I understand where you are. We can help you think through this and act in a sane, strategic way. First off, your marriage is very recoverable if you handle this correctly. You may decide to leave the marriage, but I would suggest putting off such a decision for at least a year. You are under intense emotional duress right now, which makes for bad decision making. Divorce is permanent, whereas, your shock and fury is not. Long term decisions about your life should be made with a cooler head. So, please put that aside for now and act as if you wanted to save the marriage. You have nothing to lose by doing so. What you need is a strategic plan to kill this affair and protect your interests, and that is what we are here for. The first step will be to calm down and stop attacking him. While you have every right to pistol whip him, it hurts your mission. The OW is not attacking him so this makes her look good. You are literally throwing him into her arms by doing this. Please do not help her cause. Do everything in your power to ruin her affair even if you decide you don't want him. Treating him kindly will throw him off and confuse him about his affair. So please stop the lovebusting NOW. The next step will be to implement a flawless Plan A. It will only last 3-4 weeks and if his affair does not end in that time, it is highly recommended you go into Plan B, which is complete and total darkness; a separation. This protects you from the emotional trauma of his affair. So, lets focus on Plan A, the purpose of which is to negotiate an end to the affair. Plan A is a plan designed to attract your H back by meeting his needs and avoiding lovebusters while taking steps to ruin the affair. The way to ruin the affair is exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure ruins the fantasy. Exposure should be done in a strategic, methodical way by making up a list of key targets and calling, emailing, writing them all on the same day. This effects a tsunami to the affairees and often results in the end of the affair. At the very least it hastens its death. It is like bringing a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crack heads, no one likes getting high in front of others! The most effective exposure targets are: 1. children 2. OP's spouse, if any 3. Parents of ALL parties, WS, BS, OP 4. close friends 5. pastor 6. employer [use the letter and method recommended by corporate attorney, BritsBrat] 7. facebook friends: a very impactful exposure is FACEBOOK. We have had several affairs killed recently by face book exposures to the WS and the OP's facebook friends. This is a very effective exposure because fb is a collection of the most key ppl in the OP and WS' lives. We have a form letter that is sent out by email to all the facebook contacts. I will leave you some links to read, but I would strongly suggest you go to the bookstore today and get Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley. That is a must read. Learn as much as you can today, stop lovebusting your husband, and then come back here and we can help you STRATEGIZE. And you may well decide to divorce your H in the end, but I promise you that your marriage is not hopeless at this point. Far from it. Go read these links now: Carrot and Stick of Plan A Dr Harley on exposure How to Survive Infidelity
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 270 |
Thanks lurioosi2....I know my H's claims he can't "abandon" his Ph.D. candidate in her last semester are bogus. However, it would require some explanation to his Dean and Department Chair and also would require finding another faculty member willing to accept Hot Pants under such circumstances. This would probably lead to exposure and he wants to avoid that at all costs, as he's still deluding himself that no one knows. And let's be frank, HE DOESN'T WANT TO GIVE UP HOT PANTS YET. He hasn't faced that fact that a choice is at hand....his marriage or Hot Pants. However, he may also not be facing that at this point, I may not give him that chance.
To answer ace....yes, I do have media contacts. I am a person less well known than my H, but with some professional following in the media. Its one of the reasons I am somewhat loath to go public with this whole thing and more inclined by the hour to just clean him out financially to get my pound of flesh.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,708 |
Get that man back in your bed.
Here is the often touted quick study of Plan A (which it is imperative that you do now that you have been smacked by the discovery and had a little while to vent the horror. Your instinct to be angry and overwhelmed and trying to gain control of your wayward must be put aside for now (this in known as the Taker in marriage builders concepts and the Taker will just cause trouble for you right now. You must tell your Taker to lay back and observe the Giver in order to have the true potential of victory....whatever the outcome)
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
H is now up and around house pouting and giving me silent treatment. Poor him, mean old wife won't let him sleep in his own bed with wife while screwing grad student STOP punishing him right now, LLL. The OW is hoping for this reaction because she knows you will be throwing him into her arms. DON'T help that skankho. Lets give her a run for her money, ok? You have something she doesn't have, which is long term history. She has no strategy, so you have an opportunity to bring this skankho to disgrace and ruin if you stick with us.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
To answer ace....yes, I do have media contacts. I am a person less well known than my H, but with some professional following in the media. Its one of the reasons I am somewhat loath to go public with this whole thing and more inclined by the hour to just clean him out financially to get my pound of flesh. Something to consider, public exposure in the media is one of the best things that can happen to someone. People learn lessons this way. It is therapeutic and helps them learn to change their behavior. It also helps keep them accountable if they know others are watching. Public exposure of wrongdoing is a good thing, not a bad thing. Just look at Tiger Woods, hiding his true behavior from the public has just about destroyed his marriage by allowing to continue his affairs. If this behavior had been exposed a long time ago, he wouldn't be in the fix he is in today. However, now that it is exposed, he is getting help for his problem. If everyone knows about your H's adultery, then he is less likely to do it again. Even if he is fired from his job, his next employer will be aware of his limitations and will watch him. Obviously, his employer needs to know what he has done because they are at legal risk when he sexually exploits the subordinate pool.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
0 members (),
202
guests, and
64
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Children
by BrainHurts - 10/19/24 03:02 PM
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,615
Posts2,323,460
Members71,895
|
Most Online3,185 Jan 27th, 2020
|
|
|
|