Patriot,

I am surely not one of the pros but I've been hanging around here for a few years and DH and I are currently more than 2 1/2 years into R and we have a good M and have renewed love and respect in spite of occasional ups and downs.

I don't see anything wrong if you decide to deliver a Plan B letter at your dinner date. Your WW seems to have no respect for you and you had the best result with her when you let loose on her. Preserve what little love you have left for her and let her know what you require from her in order to continue to work on the M beginning with a NC letter.

I believe that this is a wonderful program but I have seen how Dr H's advice sometimes varies according to personality. There are parts of this plan that would have destroyed my M and I am glad that I did not have to employ them, other parts were our salvation.

You are in my prayers.

God's Blessings,

Say

What is also coming out is her resentment that I'm home. That's the kicker. I was the bread winner before we moved and I moved for her because she had such a good offer.




wow...

Hi Patriot,

If you're interested in saving your M I would recommend that you work a stellar Plan A for a period of time of 3 to 6 months prior to going in to plan B.

If you don't have the fortitude to do this then just file for divorce and save yourself the trouble.


You have only been on MB a few weeks and are already deviating from the MB program of how to survive an affair.

Rule number one; Never listen to anything that comes out of an active waywards mouth. It's ALL fog babble! You cannot have a logical discussion with deluded wayward, so stop trying

Rule number two; Control all your Love Busters! You are the only one who can control what comes out of your mouth. You are 100% responsible for your own LB's

The goal of Plan A is to demonstrate that you have the ability to provide EXCEPTIONAL CARE. Can you do this?

Pat,

Ok I have been reading along and keeping my mouth shut, but it is time to get serious here. While it is natural for folks especially people who KNOW LITTLE about relationships and how to modify them to yell "BURN the W(B)itch at the stake." It is foolhardy to do this now.

It is time for YOU to calm down. It is time for YOU to get a grip. There is no way in God's Green Earth that you can make a decision in the emotional state you are in. If you expect your entitled WW to turn on a dime with exposure you are NUTS!!!

Do you hear me???? YOU ARE NUTS!!! It won't happen. She knew you knew and she did it anyway, you cannot possible be silly enough to think her mind will change in a day or so. You just cannot be that silly.

What you have most likely done is end the affair. That is the purpose of exposure. Ending the affair is NOT recovery, it is just something that MUST happen before recovery can even be considered.

And that brings me to the MB part of this. Harley and most of the vet here KNOW that not all marriages must be saved or should be saved. What Harley proposed was that more could be saved if people took their time and did things in a calm, planned fashion. That included evaluation, discussion, and searching of ones soul.

That is what you should be doing now. Calm down, relax. and let the dust settle. You can afford to do this because:

1. You are right.

2. You have a strong case for keeping the children.

3. You now have a job.

4. She is flat wrong in everything she has said and done.

This is NOW YOUR BALL GAME and she MUST PLAY BY YOUR RULES OR LOSE.

When you have dinner you WILL talk about the affair, what else is there. When you have your dinner, you will calmly state YOUR plans and your decision points and your boundaries. No threats, no if you don't I will..., just state them. It puts the ball in her court.

If she just had the greatest sex since the beginning of mankind, then invite her to continue after the divorce. If she feels she is being mistreated point out that others including you don't see it that way, perhaps she should reevaluate her behavior. If she wants to think about saving this marriage she is going to have to come up with a plan that YOU are comfortable with.

In short, you CALMLY, QUIETLY, and CLEARLY state your thoughts. If she even starts to raise her voice, leave her and go home.

You have seen a lawyer, see him again and consider a RO so if she cannot control herself around you or the kids she is out.

You may decide to leave her and it sounds from what you said, you should take the kids with you. BUT, you should do this with a calm, clear, and focussed mind.

The BURN THE WITCH AT THE STAKE chants are not to your benefit. They are not part of MB, and they will leave you with a lot of baggage you will need to set down no matter which decision you make.

I will tell you in honesty, the sex comment would hurt but I could get over it. The way she has treated the kids (I mean her own parents have signed notarized letters to the effect that she is a bad mother) that is HARD to forgive.

You have a lot of thinking to do, but calm down. And as for OM, are you really worried about that loser??? Come on now, the low life lives under beds for Gosh sakes.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

JL

Good post and timely. Got home late - too many 12 hr days with many firedrills. Alot sure has happened today.

Pat - step away a bit from the drama. Never make a life changing decision with so much leftover emotion.

As for the Plan FU - shld only be used once. You did get some zingers in and cleared the fog a bit but continue to LB will make the marriage and the family too difficult.

Here is my reasoning where your single Plan FU had good shock value.

Even though I think you are man's man for making the sacrifice for your wife's career and stay at home to take care of kiddos, woman generally will lose respect for their husband not working over time.

Add comments she may have received from co-workers and perhaps her OM about this scenario. Over time - she may think you must have masculinity issues.

Unfortunately even in our PC society, a SAHM is held in higher regard then that of a SAHD - I mean he must have a genetic defect, or no self-respect or no drive or he is lazy. Make sense?

So your Plan FU was timely after that shot she gave you (she was testing you)- you regained your masculinity in her eyes.

I dont recall in this stitch that you have any history of anger issue for disrespectful judgements so I dont think this instance of Plan FU was harmful. I do wonder if being a doormat after that comment would have been wise.

Today yoi took the reigns of power. It is up to you how you wield it. Also - now you need to think before talking. Much work to be done if you are up to R. There is no sure outcome because as you know - you cannot control her and she will need to make her own decision.

Just to add:

Perhaps a call into the Harleys for some coaching. Forget MC or IC - coaching through these rapids and understanding the dynamics of her affair is your best bet. At best we use our experience and assumptions on your marriage when offering our opinions.

Dont take the SAHD comments wrong way - every father and mother should prioritize spouse and family before their job and career.

Make the affair not a good place.
Make the marriage a better place to return to
Make the marriage difficult and costly to leave.

Pat,
I gotta tell you, I agree with JL 100% here.



This is not a sprint but rather, a marathon. It's going to take long and hard work to recover this M if you are so inclined to do so. The "kick um to the curb crowd" will always be around this forum but, JL is correct. This is not MB or Dr Harley's philosophy.

Actually, not having been through this himself, he finds himself astonihed that any M can survive infidelity and readily admits, that he does not believe he could do it himself. Pretty astonishing from the author of this site, don't you think.

Dr. H admits that the best prediction is that about 15% of all M's will be able to survive this, in spite of his program. He also has the best record anywhere with achieving just that. If I were in busines and the best sucess rate I had was 15%, I would throw in the towel. But he hasn't and refuses to do so. I think that alone, speaks volumes about his dedication.

He also emphasizes that the path to R is a VERY NARROW PATH, with no room for deviation.

Your upcoming choice(and it is essentiallly your choice at this point) is to consider if you could find it in yourself and your M to become part of the 15% winners or the 85% rest.

For the sake of your family, your children, and your faithfulness to your God, I do truly hope you do not let your anger destroy something that may be quite possible for you to salvage.

It will most certainly take your wife's repentance and your extended ability to find love in your heart where you had no idea in the past how to find it!! It's pretty extrodinary actually.

I pray for your marriage.

All Blessings,
Jerry

There is a saying from a famous horse trainer (Ray Hunt) that I think applies here.

"Make the right thing easy and the wrong thing hard"

bingo

the whole point of the carrot and stick of Plan A.

Yeah! What JL said. Finally the voice of freakin reason!

He needs to BLAST her to garner her RESPECT. I'd walk up to than table w/ a Plan D in hand and plan FU w/ the other hand. Follow through w/ it. Then, after he has protected himself and his children from this wreckless B, let her hit ROCK BOTTOM, maybe they can talk reconciliation. NOT BEFORE, she has gone WAY TOO FAR! He needs to protect his SANITY now! DUDE

It depends on the spouse's history. If she has a long history of wacky unstable behavior, then yea...It may be a pointless to even try.

If the wacky unstable behavior started with the affair, well thats normal for a wayward.

I have never seen an "Ordered/Stable Wayward"

In fact I think almost all waywards show the symptoms of someone with BP-II in a manic phase.

My FWW did not say that.
But she did say she hated me.
Had wasted her life with me.
That I was the worst husband ever.
Never wanted to see me again.
Was glad I was in pain because I deserved it.
Bla, Bla, Bla
Etc, Etc, Etc

I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted.

"I payed no more attention to any of this than I would to a child who was having a temper tantrum thrashing on the floor because they did not get something they wanted."

Worth repeating.

What you would do is irrelevant.
What Pat wants to do (A,B or D) is what is at hand.

Plan-DUDE is not a part of MB

.
I meant "Ordered/Stable Wayward"
And I fixed it in the above post.

Game stopper. F her.

That's one you'll spend a lifetime hearing over and over in your head.

I would think that one of the hardest parts about recovering with someone capable of saying things like this, would be ever having respect again for the person. She has demonstrated that she will say and do things that normal, moral people would never do or say. It would be like trusting Ted Bundy around your kids, IMO.

I'm concerned that so many BHs on here are actually saying this B deserves a MB plan A. I've met many WW on here who deserve a plan A. A chance to save their A$$. This cruel and thoughtless B has lost her GD mind. BREAK HER!!

DUDE

Unlike you, I have said a lot of things to a lot of people out of anger and frustration that I did not mean and later regretted. If I cant look past such obvious wayward outbursts from her, how can I expect those who I have done the same too, to overlook my own indiscretions?


Just like every, single, other wayward, in history, does. All waywards say hurtful things they do not mean and later regret. Thats just how waywards roll

Sorry to hear that, Gack. Have you addressed this proclivity?

No, not all WS say things like this. the sexaul adequacy allusion. I would bet very few of the WWs here went down that road.