Forgiveness is better than revenge, for forgiveness is the sign of a gentle nature, but revenge is the sign of a savage nature.
--Epictetus


Just a thought I had while reading through.
As I stated earlier, Feel with your emotions, act with your logic. Do not confuse the two.
(((LLL))) You seem to know what you are doing.

Have no idea where H is tonight. Got home from work and housekeeper hadn't seen him all day. Guess he's just using this as a place to change clothes and sleep (maybe). Dogs are keeping me company and I tried to eat but not doing so well. I'm losing weight pretty fast and haven't had the energy to run for a couple of days.....just too tired and stressed. I'm hoping PI gets what attorney thinks we need so we can move this along. I might as well be divorced.....I'm alone at home most of the time anyway. My sister called and is worried about me but I'm really ok I think. I hate all this crap, the anger, the self-blame because I feel so dumb for not figuring all this out weeks ago. Then I tell myself I'm not dumb and this isn't my fault that I chose to honor my mother with the care she deserved in the last 6 months of her life. Then I wonder if Hot Pants and H have been an item longer than that, although when I trace back I think things were normal for us until 5 or so months ago. Oh geeze....can I spend months and years dealing with this stuff.....I'm not sure I'm cut out to spend years trying to win back H from the whore.

barbiecat....I pick savage tonight....who was that woman who accidently ran over her cheating H 3 times?

As is your right.

Clara Harris, I think.

They gave her 20 years as a "light" sentence because it was done in the heat of the moment. It was in the hotel parking lot where she had seen him come fresh from the act of betrayal.

Does THAT bring back memories! That lady was a dentist here where I live. Drove over him at the local hotel I attend meetings at. Her dentist partner lives on my street (they had to shut down the practice after she was sent away).

Ah, we call that the Infidelity Diet around here. We've all been on it. Two years ago I weighed barely 101 and looked like I something that had been dead for at least a month.


Exactly the way I felt. Maybe that's why being alone after all of this doesn't really bother me that much.

You aren't dumb. We trusted them and had no reason to suspect anything at all. There was no reason to be looking for something like that.


Much of the time, the BS has to do the heavy lifting to win the WS back. Looking back, I don't think I would have had it in me to do it.

Smartypants (who doesn't come around here much anymore) said something to me once that really made me think. After dday she did a little Plan A but in the end she cut her WH loose and chose to D. Like you, she had a great job, two dogs, and no kids. Her biggest reason was that "OP is going to be part of his emotional landscape from here on out, and I can't deal with that." Not sure I could have in the long run either.

Hi LLL
Been following. I'm so sorry you're here.

Just a thought, Perhaps you should check to see if YOUR computer has had any spy ware installed on it. Your H's hovering means he knows you're up to something online. could he have had access to it when you're sleeping or away from home?

I know some have brought up switching over to another thread. Could be a concern. Have you mentioned Marriage Builders to your H at all? or have you left any Dr. Harley books around? If so, maybe you can just edit/change the title of this thread to 'LadyLongLegs cont'd" or something like that. The title of this thread would be the first to catch his eye if he did get on here; it's that specific. Not a good idea to be be so careful holding in your plans and thoughts when he could have access to it all.

As to your posts, I'll chime in with a few observations. First of all, just a reminder that most of us are on here because it's called 'Marriage Builders' and we want to save our marriages, and many of us have a better marriage as a result of MB and our collective experience, strength, and hope. I never, ever imagined that was going to be the outcome of choosing to fight for recovery. I never dared to dream it. Our marriage had been in shambles for years, and the A should have been the last straw. But some how, like a man crazed, running from an exploding foxhole, I found that I had unimaginable strength in the midst of battle, and, even shell shocked, I could do more than I ever thought possible. I don't know how I hung in there. It was the hardest thing I ever did, and of all the things I've done in my life, it is the one thing I am the most proud of. I believe that, even if we hadn't made it, I would still be proud of having made that effort.

My H was what they call a dry drunk, sober for twenty years but still a liar and an ego driven *@^&*. I had no idea he would turn out to be the man of integrity who stands by me now. No, I'll never trust him again with other women, but he has become my best friend.

That being said, there are men (and women) who never get it. Your H may be one of them. I'm not saying you shouldn't prepare for plan D. I think you should, but I also think you should do Plan A (and I'm afraid B) as if your priority right now is to save your marriage. From reading your posts, I truly feel you're the type of person who is good at planning, setting deadlines, etc. and that will work to your advantage here. Some are too afraid to carry out A or B plans or to set boundaries and that hinders chances for recovery. Some (like me) dwell too much, too long on 'what's wrong with me?'. I don't think you're one of those either. And you don't have the fear of non support/children hanging over you. You have so much more going for you than many of us. Hey, if I was able to pull this off, the original poster child for Low Self Esteem Anonymous, then I think you've got a great chance.

In the long run, he may turn out to be more into boody than bounty, but I say give him a chance to step up and listen to the angels of his higher nature. As someone else on here said, you can always divorce him.

About the multiple affairs flags that have gone up on previous posts, I think that's highly possible, though, this affair seems to have been more impactful. (a.He's older b.She's a practiced husband snatcher) (pun intended) For dealing with your situation right now, I think other A's need to be put on the back burner until this affair is ended. Later, they can be trotted out to make sure they are included in NC or for legal purposes. Knowledge of previous affairs can also come in handy for testing BS's commitment to truth telling.

Sorry I wrote so much. We're all pulling for you LLL.

LadyLongLegs, now that you know about the A he feels free to act it out even more. This is not a good sign and shows a man that has no intention of ending it. He fell for her and it is not easy to get over those love feelings. You might have noticed that by reading on this forum.
About exposure. It is not a sure kill for the A. My H's A is still going strong and I exposed to everyone including his boss. We are both educators and work in the same place.
The work place took no position about his A. Collegues who know about it act as friendly with him as they do with me...and they know the hurt.
So at the end what the exposure did for me was to make me look like a poor victim in the eyes of the big boss and my collegues and made him look like a man...and that is what men do when they are unhappy in their M.
Sure they might think poorly of him but they sure do not show it. Instead they show it to me by patting me in the back and asking me "how are youuuu doooing???" In a commiserative little voice. It drives me crazy. They feel sorry for me and that's about it. And secretly they might even be happy we split as we were the perfect couple with a perfect son who is now at an ivy league school in the states.
4 years ago H had another A, this time with a collegue. I did not expose then...maybe that would have been noted differently but I doubt it.
All in all I think R is worth if you H is material for R. Otherwise it is best to move on. I get this from personal experience and from being on this forum now for a while.
If H comes back to you begging to want to work on the M and asking for forgiveness, then you do have R material. And this should happen in a matter of weeks not years, because the more time they spend with OW the more OW becomes part of their lives and their history...so if they come back, then they are full of doubts and you have to do all the work to get them thru withdrawal from OW etc...while you yourself are a wreck, lost weigh, lost your dignity,patience, feel abandoned, unloved...that really would drive most people insane.. Consider feeling like this for months if not years before a full R is in place...and if it is in place!
Looking at H's actions you will have to decide whether or not he is R material. He might very well be. Otherwise you are wasting time. I am talking this way also because time is no longer on our side and at our age we need to make the most of our lives....but really isn't that true at any age?
blessing

H didn't come home last night. This may be all over but the paperwork. How do you do a plan A with someone who's not here? Plan B is something he's doing to me currently it would appear. Other than the "we can be friends" speech, he's not been around.

I keep my laptop that receives the eblaster reports with me 24/7. H isn't using his laptop right now as its on his desk in our study and he hasn't been around.

I'm hoping PI has gotten lots in the last 24 hours as H certainly hasn't been home and my guess is he's w/Hot Pants.
I will call attorney today and see if we should meet again given new developments....H has basically left it would appear. I'd like to change locks on house as I don't want him to just think he can walk in and out of here as he desires. I think I need to get a written separation agreement in place .... he can't just use our home as a drop off/pick up place.

P.S. I wrote moderators to help me change my thread name, but no answer and despite going through help things here haven't figured it out.....

Hi LLL, Try writing to the forum administrator at <JustUss2@aol.com> to request a change in your thread title. In the meantime you can edit your post title by putting your cursor in the 'subject' line at the top, deleting your present title and typing in your new generic title.

Be careful doing anything (like changing the locks) prematurely without legal advice. I think you're right that you need a LSA before so it doesn't backfire on you somehow.

Ace

Before anybody comes down too hard on LLL for her morals about her thoughts regarding division of assets, she should be informed that typically, waywards are often willing to give up virtually everything initially upon discovery - probably due to guilt. However, once a little time passes, their sense of entitlement kicks in and they will fight you tooth and nail for it. In my own case, WXH was practically bribing me with more to get me to hurry up and finish writing the separation agreement. NOTE: he did not make one attempt to write it himself. He was furious when I made him wait so I could show it to a lawyer. Three days AFTER it was signed, he noticed a few things that were rounded up in my favour - including the infamous tuition payment (which was just settled in small claims court this week). I'm certain that if I had taken longer, his entitlement would have kicked in and I wouldn't have walked away with what I did. At the time, I would have risked everything to keep him, but given the way things turned out (he started bringing OW over and stealing personal things and took advantage of the fact that my mom was undergoing angiograms and bypass surgery at the same time so he knew I'd be with her and not at home), I was very lucky that I did. I was nowhere near as composed as you are and had a very difficult time trying to think rationally.

Though the emotional and spiritual matters are very important and you have been dealt a serious blow, you shouldn't neglect the financial and materialistic matters as one day you will feel emotionally and spiritually better but you won't be able to go back and recoup your losses. You are lucky to have your own income and can support yourself, as was I. But I'm glad I didn't have to start over again from scratch, either.

I know it's hard, but try to be patient. Waywards flipflop all over the place. When people stop getting the support they're used to (you letting him cheat), they exhibit 'take back!' behavior where they try to punish you to back into submission.

Remain calm, remain smart, know you're doing the right thing...it'll drive him nuts! This sometimes takes weeks or months, so don't worry about what he does on a day to day basis, ok? He probably stayed out to either (1) be with OW so he could feel good (not guilty) or (2) try to get on your last nerve by 'defying' you. Either way, you are smarter than him. Just keep taking the high road. You'll look like the better option. And he'll grow to respect you.

ladylonglegs,

Please let us know what you would like your thread title changed to be. You may let us know by either alerting on any post in this thread or by emailing any of us.

Thank you.

"H didn't come home last night. This may be all over but the paperwork. How do you do a plan A with someone who's not here?"

LLL you are as fogged up as your WH is.

How do I know?

Simple you are only her to justify that you will divorce your WH and leave him. Your just laying down the track work.

I'll let you in a big suprise. You don't have to justify plan D when your the BS. When a WH has an affair it is known as the "get out of jail free card".

How dare you complain that WH did not come home last night because he was banging the OW.

That's right, HOW DARE YOU, when you steadfast refuse to Expose.

If you truely where confused as to whether or not that you want to save this marriage is one thing.

Though you refuse to lift a finger to expose.

The most effective thing any BS can do is to expose.

Are you that uncaring to not read other poster's threads on MB.
If you did how can you not learn from their lessons?

Where the BS once afraid to then accepts exposure and does it see's the initial WS rage then the WS is pushed off the fence and wants to come back.

Why do you think it worked for them?

WS's are addicted to the OP.

WH's/Addicts have to get their OW/fix.

Once an WH/addict detox's and gets their system clean the are no longer the alien.

This is why plan A is done to show WH that life would be better without his addiction to the OW. Exposure is the high cost his addiction is costing.

So stop yanking our collective chains here. Be honest tell us you want to drop the D bomb on your WH.

SHe has been honest. She is looking at the d-bomb and trying to maximize her recovery. Not a bad idea, IMO. Exposure at this point causes her to lose leverage in the divorce.
Until such a time as a BS decides that recovery is the route he or she wants to go, this is a good stategy. He's been banging this OW for a while now and a few more bangs makes no difference.

The Road:

I find your vehement posts unhelpful and unnecessarily antagonistic. You have a one track mind on exposure without regard to many considerations necessary before I take such a step.

I have read many posts here. Some work out ok after exposure, many also do not. Exposure for simply the sake of ending the affair may or may not work. There is no guarantee. I am approaching this mess my H has created in my life with as much thought and rationality as I can and am not ready to use that at this time.

I commented about my H not coming home to simply point out to my self as well as others that H is pretty far gone. He apparently does not care what I think and is probably not hiding his relationship now. I realize he's probably addicted to OW, but he's still an adult with choices and so am I.

If you are bothered by my posts, don't read them.

YOU GO GIRL! You are doing the right thing...DUDE

I am not sure how exposure can affect any leverage LLL has in a divorce. Once again - WH will NOT lose his job or his research funding. Worst case scenario for him is some embarrassment. Likely the OW will suffer worse embarrassment and I still maintain her career is more at risk than the WH. University policies only exist to hide the true nature of the old boys clubs within them.

Failure to expose just drags things out. He's clearly not ending his A just because LLL knows. I honestly can't see how Plan A can work without the "stick" portion of it. The stick (exposure) is what destabilizes the affair. Without that destabilization, there is nothing under the sun that LLL can do to show her WH that the marriage is the better place to be. Regardless of how many EN's he allows her to fulfill, OW is going to be fulfilling more. Only by destabilizing this dynamic can the BS make even the slightest impression on the WS. The worst thing is, the longer it goes on with nothing being done about it, it will be far easier for the WH to turn things back against LLL. We've seen this before on this board countless times.