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If I sit H down and try to give him this info, he'll likely blame the messenger and deny she could have a history like she does.
That way, you are not the messenger.
Just a thought ....
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Again, I want some time to think....I'd have to tell H I've hired PI, this would put him into high defense mode I'm sure. I'm just about fried thinking about all of this.....this is NOT how I envisioned spending my days at age 53.....too much drama.
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WH's do not want to be educated. He will refuse to hear, read, listen to anything about the OW that you or the PI can provide.
If by chance you can get him to listen to the dirt on the OW he will refuse to believe it.
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@ladylonglegs, What's keeping you from booking an appointment with Steven Harley or Jennifer Harley Chalmers? Both are experts at recovery from infidelity, and one session for $195 has made a WORLD of difference in my marriage... enough so that even though I have to save up for a while, I'm really looking forward to our next session. The thing that keeps people away is the expense. But hang the expense. Talk with coaches who have experience at saving THOUSANDS of marriages apiece. They also have ample experience at helping those in divorce, too. We've given you a sort of rough road-map here. But you are experiencing the kinds of things that are best helped with by a counselor: Emotional minefields represent the predictable, yet overwhelmingly painful experiences that many couples go through as they try to adjust to each other's emotional reactions. Hurt feelings are the most common, but depression, anger, panic, paranoia and many others seem to pop up without warning. These emotions distract couples from their goal...
Motivational swamps represent the feeling of discouragement that most couples experience. They often feel that any effort to improve their marriage is a waste of time. Over the years, I believe that one of my greatest contribution to couples has been my encouragement when things looked bleak...its easy to be discouraged, and difficult to be encouraged...
The creative wilderness represents the typical inability of couples in marital crisis to create solutions to their problems. In the books I've written, many solutions are suggested but they're only the tip of the iceberg. Many marital problems require solutions that are unique to certain circumstances. In this site, I put more emphasis on the process you should follow to solve marital problems than I do on the specific strategy you should use. That's because there are too many situations that require unique strategies.
A good marriage counselor is a good strategy resource. While you can, and should, also think of ways to solve your marital problems, a marriage counselor should know how to solve problems like yours. That's what you pay him/her to do! And his strategy should make sense to you. In fact, his strategy should encourage you in the belief that your problems will be over soon. Counselors often obtain special training for many common marital problems, such as sexual incompatibility and financial conflicts. These counselors can document a high rate of success in finding solutions to those problems.
To summarize, the three most important reasons to find a marriage counselor are (1) to help you avoid or overcome painful emotional reactions to the process of solving marital problems, (2) to motivate you to complete your plan to restore romantic love to your marriage, and (3) to help you think of strategies that will achieve your goal. LadyLongLegs, from where I sit, it looks like you're hitting all three good reasons to see a pro-marriage, experienced counselor.
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I think I do need to talk to H about what I know. I think he's still a smart enough guy to investigate her on his own if I can at least put a question in his head. I know he's addicted. I know he won't believe me. But maybe it will shake his befuddled brain enough to question on his own.
If nothing else, maybe some day he will appreciate that I at least tried to save him from himself. I have no illusions it will change anything at this moment, and I'm sure he'll claim I'm slandering her from jealousy or malice.
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LLL, where does your WH believe you stand ......
1) she's divorcing me
2) she wants to stay M'd even if I still keep OW as my student
3) she wants to stay M'd only if I dump OW as my student
You are between 1) or 3)
WH wants 2), or has he given you the impression that he is fine with 1)
Do you think that you can discuss with WH what he sees in his future with you?
I only recall the one conversation you mentioned where he said that he was sorry that you were unhappy, blah blah blah. All typical babble but no real idea of what his plans were ..... R or D.
Would this help guide your future?
What if your WH is still with OW cuz he knows you are wanting D, and just simply getting your ducks in a row.
His mentality may be ..... 'well poor me, LLL is leaving me so I might as well hold tight with Hot Pants'
I know this is not how it should be, he should be at your feet begging for mercy to take him back, under whatever conditions you ask for.
You both have lived very independently, you've stated this, so this is why I wonder, might he be assuming you are just heading for D without telling him and now has the mentality of 'poor me'?
Never underestimate the wacky mind of a wayward!
p.s. giving WH the goods on HP, I think even if it came from the PI, he would say that you both made it up, that's it's a conspiracy, lol.
Plus, he needs to give HP up cuz he wants to R, not cuz she is a skank.
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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If the information is readily available on the internet, you could protect your source by insinuating that you came across it on your own. He can then believe or not believe and/or research it on his own.
Just an option.
BTW I think you're handling this amazingly, whether you choose to D or R!
Me BS
H FWS
DDay 10/2007
Actively recovering, learning, loving, earning a better marriage!
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I second, on the call to the Harley's. They will be able to help you sort out some of that tangled yarn mess in your head.
You should be warned too about the extreme lows, and panic attacks that follow infidelity.
These happen for obvious and the not so obvious reasons, and you will continue to experience these for quite some time.
They are crippling and overwhelming, but know that these feelings do fade with time.
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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Vittoria:
I have been thinking about just what you described above. I'm not sure H knows what I want because I've never specified anything other than he can't be with me if he's involved with her. I haven't discussed divorce, separation, nothing. In fact, after our "we can be friends" discussion the other night, we've literally said nothing to each other and he hasn't been around. I don't know if he'll come home tonight or not. Been since Tuesday night when I saw him last.
I am pretty decided to ask for he and I to meet and talk to see where we both are in this mess. Surely we can sit down for 30 minutes and try to discuss what he intends to do and I can talk about my feelings (as all over the place as they are). We have a 29 year history. I need to give it a try. Frankly, what do I have to lose by trying to figure out where this is headed? I know it will probably yield nothing, but ....
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I am probably going to call the Harleys.
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Frankly, what do I have to lose by trying to figure out where this is headed? I know it will probably yield nothing, but .... Well, you don't know unless you ask. Keep your composure, whatever comes out of his mouth that is pathetic and stupid, just look at him like he has 2 heads. (right now he does, and the old straight one, is on strike!) I don't believe you can talk to the Harley's stat, so I would call or email ASAP for an appt. Good decision LLL, I don't believe that you will regret it, regardless of how this plays out. FYI, if R is even a remote possibility, there is an MB seminar at the end of this month. <------ seedling
M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA
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Has the PI tailed you WH the last 24 hours? I betcha he ran right out of the house, and over to hotpants place. If so, this could be the shortest investigation of all time.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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PI told me H spent the night at hotpants apt last night. Surprise, surprise. Probably don't need PI much longer. He's good. 3 days and he's got the goods on H and even more on hotpants.
Called H. Got him on his cell. Gee, wonder where he is???? I told him we need to talk. He said OK. We're meeting tomorrow.
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*edit*
Last edited by Breezemb; 01/21/10 08:24 PM. Reason: TOS personal attack
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Make sure you focus on yourself and your goals tomorrow. I would not talk at all about hotpants..(well maybe insinuate that you have some into about her...but let him wonder)
You need to have a script and stick to it. Meet at a neutral place, I would make it a quiet but public place. Do not plan on being there a long time, have an excuse or a place to go-- mention this early-- so you have a polite "out"-- he is in FOG and all you are going to hear is FOGSPEAK (translation: garbage and lies).
The goal of this meeting is to get your info to him, get a reading from him, but cause as much disruption you can between HP and WH.
If you are the "common enemy" they will be driven closer-- if you do not put yourself in that position, that will be helpful for you. Try not to lovebust, leave the conversation before you do.
NOTE: I did not say you have to be a doormat, either. You can do this.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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dsd: No, but what does that have to do with anything?
Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Last edited by Breezemb; 01/21/10 08:25 PM. Reason: removing quote
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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I am probably going to call the Harleys. This sounds like a good idea. Ace
Last edited by _Ace_; 01/22/10 08:52 AM. Reason: ...different thought.
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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.I am sorry for asking.
*edit*
Last edited by Breezemb; 01/21/10 08:29 PM. Reason: tos/harassment
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Vittoria:
I have been thinking about just what you described above. Vittoria has a ton of valuable insight.
I am pretty decided to ask for he and I to meet and talk to see where we both are in this mess. Surely we can sit down for 30 minutes and try to discuss what he intends to do and I can talk about my feelings (as all over the place as they are). Keep in mind that the person in this discussion will most likely not be the H you know. You might not be able to discuss things logically because it may seem like he is an alien, thinking, feeling, acting and being illogical. It took me 3 D-Days to figure that out. I did not have MB info until after D-Day #3 and had no idea about these forums until after D-Day #4.
We have a 29 year history. I need to give it a try. Frankly, what do I have to lose by trying to figure out where this is headed? I know it will probably yield nothing, but .... LLL, it's so early in the process that I think it might be good for you to let him do most of the talking and, if you can, bite your lip and listen. We all have our tolerance levels. I was ready for Plan D the night WH confessed to me because, unlike most, I had withdrawn from our M after 30 years and was looking for a justifiable reason to get out when WH had his A 2 years later. But I changed my mind and you could, too. My H was amazed that I just listened. It seems that you can use this session as a gathering session....gather info that will help you decide what you want to do.
ETA = On the other hand, if he defogs quickly, you may be able to discuss things civilly. Like others have said, make every effort NOT to love bust (get angry, cut him off, become sarcastic) and bite your tongue or leave if you have to. One thing that helped me was to write down my list of goals pro/con for R or D. Then I jumped into my virtual time machine (I was the same age as you with no financial security) and tried to picture my life after Plan D. Details in my story linked to my sig line. We've been in recovery now for 3 years and our M is a trillion times better than it was for the first 30 years. Ours is the exception, I know but I share it so you realize that you have many things going for you that you may be taking forgranted. Writing things down will help with this process. Speaking with the Harleys will help you formulate your plan. Best wishes to you, Ace
Last edited by _Ace_; 01/22/10 09:08 AM. Reason: ....to unsplit my infinitive....(to NOT love bust)
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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