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<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> he says the leaving him caused the affair well then, I guess he is just about the weakest man on the planet! JUST silly alcoholic wayward blame-shifting this is nothing more than a thinly veiled threat don't buy it for one second He is very remorseful and things would be great if I could let go. Have you been to marriage counseling together? If not, you need to go. "Let go" is NOT what happends during recovery ... "work through" and "solve" the underlying problems is what happends .... If the drinking persists .... you have bigger issues than the affair is he still drinking?
Last edited by Pepperband; 06/24/07 08:11 PM.
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When I found out about his cheating 2 mos after I moved, I confronted him and he ended it then with her, quit drinking and we reconciled and he really has been a good man to be with, he did not really tell me leaving him made him do it, just concluded that myself from reading some of this other posts and Dr. Harley when he said separating or being apart is an invitation to cheating, unless I misunderstood.
He does not drink anymore, has had nor wanted to have any contact with OW. I think he is embarrassed about the whole thing, it was not about just sex given the numerous opportunites and he had it twice with erection problems at that-I even called OW and she confirmed that. I think from reading the Harley info that it was the emotional need from the daily contact he needed plus his ego was hurt because I left him because he did not fill my emotional needs and drank. Yes, we had a lot of issues going on and I am not excusing his behavior, he was weak-he is just so different now that I have to believe he was in a really bad place and by chance (someone he already knew)that was in a bad place-they have each other for support and feel needed. He had never done this before in 22 yrs and don't think he would have if I had not moved. Again, I am just trying to understand what would drive someone to do this, not excuse it when I read this other posts and the OW is still in picture,etc. I had another thread that was How did we move to adultery? that explains history. I am so glad someone replied, it helps me.
Yes, we did go to counselor and I felt like she was not very helpful to me, more or less, one 2mo long "fling" no big deal, he is remorseful, quit drinking, obviously loves you so get over routine. I wish she would have asked him questions as to why he did it and help him work through it and then maybe I could have understood it better, he does not seem to know himself. As for a better piece of [censored], she was not all that good looking and slept around a lot so as I read Harley put it, sometimes it is not about looks, it is about someone else feeling that emotional need.
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In additon to above post, we are not going to counseling now but I think for the first time I am not trying to wallow in my pain and punish him with it, but really try to understand why we both hurt each other so much. Without his drinking , I have nothing to argue about or criticize and he is a nice person, alwasy was fun to be around except when drunk. I am just trying to accept my part in all this, too. Yes, he sure could have found a better way, but when think if the situation were reversed and he had left me, I lost my job, I drank, I think I might have looked for "love" in all the wrong places too.
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Peppercorn, I do appreciate your input, however, if I cannot understand his behavior with drinking, hitting rock bottom, being human, etc. What reason can I give that would make sense to me and I can live with, how do I work through this if I at least don't try to grasp where he was at that point in his life. Are you saying there is no acceptable explanation for adultery except to say it was weak. I agree with the weak part, it was selfish, it was terrible, well how do I work on my marriage with a man who has "seen the light" if I cannot accept his explanations, he knows he was weak and really did not care if he lived another day or night as he was drinking so heavily. Help-I am more confused.
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Jigsaw,
Your story sounds so much like mine. Had sex twice and felt guilty and sex as not all that great, no emotion involved so I asked same question-why go for it a second time. I am still asking and it has been 1 and half yrs ago so please feel normal. We are going to MC and making some baby steps for me but that will be my very question to see if she can prompt him to understand the why I am asking and figure it out for himself. He seems genuinely confused when he says, I don't know. Hang in there-Lindy
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Would Harley's book "Surviving an Affair" be appropriate for both the betrayed spouse and wayward spouse or just for the betrayed spouse?
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Narobi, that would depend on the mental state "Fog" of the WS. I would recommend you start a thread with your story on the General Questions II section of the forum.
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great information, its important to get inside the mind of your spouse.
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I am new to this message board and the betrayal thing too. What I am trying to figure out is "When should I have sex with my husband again"? I don't think I can until he has moved on a bit from his relationship with a coworker---one that he still has to see at work.
Anyone have comments for me?
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Just checking in...
Berniece, I presume you've figured out by now that this is not an active thread. It's more of a resource thread for lurkers and potential new members. You and others are much more likely to get responses by starting your own new threads.
Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Thanks to the poster "Lino", I re-discoverd a prayer that I had used back in 2005 when I was trying to bust up my wife's affair. Hope it can help others as well.
Here it is:
[color:"blue"] Hedge Prayer for Return of a Wayward Spouse
[The Prayer of Hosea is one of the most powerful prayers in the arsenal of spiritual warfare -- the Hedge Prayer. Hosea had a wife who was committing adultery and running around on him. Hosea was convinced that he not divorce her but to pray for her return. This prayer is particularly useful in praying for a wayward spouse, child, or friend who has gone astray from the Faith and from God, has left to lead an improper life, and/or is estranged from the proper relationship they should have with you.
It should be noted, as it is with all prayer, the Hedge Prayer is not a magic bullet. There are no guarantees that the person prayed for will return. We must always remember that God has given his children the freedom to choose -- even the freedom to choose wrongly. No one, not even God, may force a person against their will to do anything. God, however, is a mighty persuader and although He will not intrude upon one's freedom to choose the course of one's own actions, He may provide the person with great incentive, motivation, and circumstances to help them decide to come back to the place they should be.
For she said, 'I will go after my lovers, who give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, my oil and my drink.' Therefore I will hedge up her way with thorns; and I will build a wall against her, so that she cannot find her paths. She shall pursue her lovers, but not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them. Then she shall say, 'I will go and return to my first husband, for it was better with me then than now.' --Hosea 2:5b-7]
Trusting in the promise that whatever we ask the Father in Jesus' name He will do, I now approach You Father with confidence in Our Lord's words and in Your infinite power and love for me and for my [husband/wife, person's name] and with the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, Blessed Archangel Michael, the guardian angels of myself and [person's name] , with all the saints and angels of heaven, and Holy in the power of His blessed Name, as ask you Father to send forth Your Spirit to convict [person's name] and to allow him/her to see any and all wrongs that he has done and how they offend Your infinite goodness.
Father I ask in sorrow, knowing that You do not intrude upon free will, but that You can give Divine Influence like you did with Hosea's wife, that You send a hedge of thorns and wall around [person's name] so that he/she cannot find the paths that lead him/her away from me and our marriage, and though he/she shall pursue his/her [i.e. lovers, lifestyle, sinful ways, etc.] , he/she will not [i.e. overtake them, practice improper lifestyles, engage in sin, etc.] ; though he/she shall seek [i.e. lovers, improper lifestyle, sin, etc.] , he/she shall not find [i.e. them, desired lifestyle, the sin that draws him, etc.] ; that no matter what path or what [i.e. lover, lifestyle, sin, etc.] he/she seeks he/she shall not find satisfaction or happiness until he/she returns to me, his/her wife/husband where he/she may then be taught by Your Holy Spirit the true meaning of marriage and sexuality and to be a good and loving wife/husband, and to know the ways of righteousness and true womanhood/manhood.
Father, I am powerless against these spiritual forces and recognize my utter dependence on You and Your power. Look with mercy upon me and upon my wife/husband. Do not look upon our sins, O Lord; rather, look at the sufferings of your Beloved Son and see the Victim who's bitter passion and death has reconciled us to You. By the victory of the cross, protect us from all evil and rebuke any evil spirits who are attacking or influencing us in any way. Send them back to h-ll and place a wall of protection around this marriage. Send your Holy Angels to watch over us and protect us.
Father, all of these things I ask in the most holy name of Jesus Christ, Your Son. Thank you, Father, for hearing my prayer. I love You, I worship You, I thank You and I trust in You. Amen. [/color]
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mr. W, I am one of those aforementioned lurkers! I popped in to see what was in here and I really liked this prayer. I'm going to print it out and keep it with the rest of them I have beside my bed to say nightly.
Thanks. Maybe you can repost it to eh GQ board. It's worth it.
"Love the life you live, live the life you love." Bob Marley
BS(me)37
WH(37)
DS1
Dau from prev M 16
Married 4/06
D-day 6/06, again 11/06, again 4/07
Plan A'd all over the place, then
Injunction 10/07, WH moved in with OW
WH has own place 12/07
1/08 Plan B
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Basically I added something to a paragraph in the original poster's thread.
"There may be something about having found their soul mate, the one they’ve been searching for all their life. Oh…by the way…they’ve never been happy with you. They’ll tell you that. Guess what? The marriage with you has been a sham for the last (insert number) years…or, sometimes, since the beginning. Or, the marriage has been unfulfilling for (insert number of years). Or, all of a sudden "we are not compatible" or "we have nothing in common". Here’s one that spews from their mouth quite often. “I never loved you…or haven’t loved you for (insert number of years) or I love you but not in love with you…. but I want to stay friends with you so the children won’t be hurt.” "
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Haven't added anything in quite awhile to this thread but I came across this excellent thread entitled, "Inside The Wayward Mind" authored by Resonance, one of our newest FORMER wayward wive's over on the General Questions II board. The thread speaks for itself. It summarizes (at great lenght)the mindset of a wayward spouse. Link to "INSIDE THE WAYWARD MIND" by Resonance Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Thanks for the great information. I am new to the forum. Just signed up a few days ago. Really glad I did. Found out about the affair 4 months ago. Husband moved in with OW last month. Feels hopeless but still trying to persevere.
I have a post under infidelity/General Questions II under: Advice-Newby-Husband moved in with OW.
Any advice welcome. Thanks again.
Last edited by Trying2live; 09/05/08 01:03 AM.
Me-39 H-38/Married 19years/DD18 & DS10 Dday EA/PA 4/23/08 Left home 5/08/08 Moved in w/Sea Hag 08/01/08 Read SAA Sept 08 Plan A 10/03/08 thru 11/15/08 Plan B 11/15/08-currently 01/18/09 Plan B crack w/phone call restating PBL 01/31/09 Planned brief contact 02/15/09 Delivery of Planned 2nd PBL Filed for D Dec 2009 Recovering well!
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Recently joined (this week) and interested in your Plan A Do's/Dont's. Have a couple of questions if you could comment on 1. #1 Do - Hard to "Act Happy" thses are the saddest days of my life.( Actally dI don't need a comment on this one it's a rhetorical response that I had to get out of the way. Question is, how do YOU act happy? 2. #1 Dont -I say it over and over because I had a hard time saying it before. Now it is very much easier and makes me feel better. # 6 Don't - I don't comprehend why I should tell the OP's Spouse. In my case I believe she is a fragile person (Alcoholic) and I am fearful of the consequences.
Keep up the good work, it is helpful.
Me 62, WW age 58, married 5/73 Two son's, 8/75 and 6/80 d-day 9/08; OM was W's school mate 40 years ago Both living at home - WW want to move out
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Thought this belonged here... This is my take on the stages one goes through following the discovery of marital infidelity. I hope it can help provide comfort in knowing that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
You've found the evidence, have confronted your spouse, and are now trying to figure out if the marriage can be repaired. You are wondering if you will ever love, trust or be able to get over the hurt, rage and jealousy which results from discovering your mate had an affair. You feel all alone in your grief and are wondering what comes next in this process. Well, let me walk you through what I believe are the phases, and what you can expect to find down this long, dark road toward recovery.
#1 The initial shock. This is the phase where you are simply in disbelief. You cannot comprehend that your spouse was physically or emotionally intimate with someone other than yourself. You start piecing the puzzle together and realize that so much of your reality was actually a lie. During this phase you are simply in a fog while you try to make sense of what is going on and figure out if this is all some sort of bad dream.
#2 Rage. You begin to realize that this is actually happening and not some cruel joke. During this phase you may become physically ill and find you are simply unable to get out of bed, go to work, or interact with others in your world. It is not uncommon for you to have episodes of crying, throwing things, breaking objects, screaming, fighting, and generally behaving way out of control. You cannot see past the anger and may choose to express your rage in ways that are dangerous, unhealthy, or illegal.
#3 The desire for revenge. This is the point where you are the most dangerous. You are not thinking clearly and simply want to enact revenge upon those who you feel have wronged you. You may begin plotting and planning ways to get back at either the other man/woman, or your spouse. Thoughts of a revenge affair move to the fore-front of your mind and you may begin thinking of who you can sleep with in order to even the score with your spouse. You start looking for ways to bring down your spouse's lover by hurting him/her personally, professionally, or financially. Please remember, this phase will pass, and pure emotional decisions rooted in pain often lead to actions which one later regrets.
#4 Letting go of the anger. At this point the initial, violent, active rage subsides and you are left with a dull ache and the feeling of being emotionally wiped out. This is typically the time when you can begin to entertain the notion of reconciliation, or begin taking steps to end the marriage. Although deeply hurt, you begin thinking more logically and are not as consumed with revenge but rather are more interested in taking an assessment of your life, goals and where you would like your marriage to go from here. You begin focusing a little less on the other man/woman and more on your spouse and the mess they have made in your marriage. During this phase, you are often simply too tired to fight, cry or re-live the horror 24 hours a day, and are beginning to desire closure, one way or another.
#5 Picking up the pieces. If you are planning and able to put your marriage back together, this is the point where you need complete, unwavering, total cooperation from the cheater. He/she needs to know that this is going to be a looooong, drawn out process, which will only be longer if they set up roadblocks to your recovery. Things the cheater does which hinder progress include, refusing to answer questions regarding things that you have a right to know, continued contact with the other man/woman, minimizing the situation or putting the blame back on the victim, or setting a time limit for when the victim should be "over it". All these things are detrimental to the recovery of the relationship and make it nearly impossible for there to ever be true healing. If you are not planning to put your marriage back together then this is the time you need to begin seeking space and time fillers. I don't mean people that you run to on the rebound and then screw up their lives for the sake of your recovery. I mean activities and interests that you move to the front of your life in order to fill up the empty space left by the loss of companionship. This will be a lonely time but if you choose to sit around sulking and feeling sorry for yourself, you will remain in this space indefinitely.
#6 Learning to trust again. This is a difficult phase regardless of whether you are trying to repair your current relationship or begin a new one. I don't advise beginning a new one anytime soon, however, because you need time to heal and be comfortable being with yourself before bringing another person into your world. If you are trying to rebuild your marriage, learning to trust comes only from seeing a cheater lay all of his/her cards on the table and them making their life an open book. This is an extremely long, slow process which plain and simply can only improve with the passage of time. Once enough of your mate's stories check out as true, and when you can feel with complete certainty that he/she is no longer communicating with the other man/woman, then you are on your way to learning to trust again. But, as previously mentioned, if the cheater is not helping you along in the process then it simply will not work. Additionally, if you are dealing with a serial cheater, or one who continues to cheat even though they have vowed fidelity, this process will never end. Therefore, you likely can not, nor will not, ever rebuild the trust necessary for a healthy marriage.
#7 Dealing with triggers. Triggers are certain names, places and events which painfully remind you of the time your spouse was having an affair. Perhaps it is a certain song that was popular during the time of the affair, or a restaurant or motel he/she told you they visited. Triggers also come in the form of seeing someone who reminds you of the other man/woman or hearing their name. Often looking back at old photos will become a trigger if in the photo you are standing there smiling at the camera, unaware that your spouse was sleeping with someone else at the time. There is really no remedy for triggers or way to avoid them. The only thing to do is to keep from obsessing over them and driving yourself crazy about things which you cannot control.
#8 Setting realistic goals. This is the point when you need to figure out whether or not you will be able to continue in your present relationship. Of course, it will never be the same, and following traumatic events you must settle into your "new reality". But, can you continue to live in this manner? Do you feel comfortable that you will be able to trust your spouse again and not keep beating them over the head everyday with questions and comments about the affair? Have they taken responsibility for their actions, tried to repair the relationship, and vowed never to repeat the behavior? If so, and if you feel that with time the relationship can be fixed, then moving on in your marriage is a realistic goal. If on the other hand, your spouse refuses to acknowledge the affair, will not answer questions, behaves suspiciously and continues contact with the other man/woman, you need to ascertain if you can indeed continue to live with this. If not, then reconciliation is not a realistic relationship goal. Only you can do the assessment here, and although input from others might be nice, in the long run you need to take this time to access what is in your best interest yourself.
#9 Finding a healthy new self. With or without him/her, you will recover and you will be okay. Yes, it does take time, but you will emerge from this a healthier, stronger more aware person. Hopefully you will recognize that you cannot entrust another individual with total responsibility for your happiness. During this process, you should do quite a bit of soul searching in order to discover if there was anything you could have done differently to strengthen the bond in your relationship. Becoming too needy, and overly dependent upon your spouse is never a good thing. Therefore, you need to develop hobbies, friends and interests of your own. That way if your relationship does not work out, you have a cushion to fall on, and if it does work out, you have used this experience for personal growth. There is a lot to be learned about yourself, your spouse and your relationship following an affair. Be sure not to look past the lesson, in order to stay focused on the pain. Remember, that which does not kill us makes us stronger.
I hope this list was helpful, Danine-
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This is very typical. They turn their anger at what they have done towards you. Disregard it. They will say and do ANYTHING during this time. May start to hear "I don't love you any more" I don't think I ever was, Our marriage has been a sham, so forth and so on. I have heard it all. (spouse is in at least 10 month affair) moved out.
By saying these things, it allows them to not feel the guilt and shame. They can put their head on the pillow when the go to sleep.
The best way to get through what they say is remember they are not in the place to be a moral authority. Nothing they say means anything until the come clean, and seek help. Then, and only then can you start to hear what they have to say.
Good luck.
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"Nietzsche was the one who did the job for me. At a certain moment in his life, the idea came to him of what he called "the love of your fate." Whatever your fate is, whatever the hell happens, you say, "This is what I need." It may look like a wreck, but go at it as though it were an opportunity, a challenge. If you bring love to that moment—not discouragement—you will find the strength is there. Any disaster that you can survive is an improvement in your character, your stature, and your life. What a privilege! This is when the spontaneity of your own nature will have a chance to flow. Then, when looking back at your life, you will see that the moments which seemed to be great failures followed by wreckage were the incidents that shaped the life you have now. You'll see that this is really true. Nothing can happen to you that is not positive. Even though it looks and feels at the moment like a negative crisis, it is not. The crisis throws you back, and when you are required to exhibit strength, it comes."
~ Joseph Campbell
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering) DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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