Mrs. W, I saw myself four years ago in a lot of what you wrote about your A. I could have sworn my garbage with OM was luuuv. Blech.

I ponder a lot the philosophy abut the "kind of person who cheats." For 35 years or so of my life, I tried to be a good, caring, Christian woman. And anyon who has known me face to face would agree. But that changed. Not overnight. But I became more and more resentful, selfish, etc. And I believed my own lies.

I have to say I admire your strength. I don't always have that. Sometimes I still feel compelled to "prove" I have changed to others (not God or H, other people) or I get pulled down by the understandable for erroneous idea that every wayward was always defecient to begin with. I like it when you step up and say the things I don't yet have the guts to say.

And I don't know the whole story about all the above posts, but I DO have bipolar disorder, and part of my responsibility as somone with that illness is to stay on my treatment - as a wife, moter, and member of society in general.

Well said Lurioosi2. Not every wayward will continue their lives that way. Sometimes one has to make mistakes in order to learn. Harsh as it can be on both parties, it can turn out alright and infact strengthen what one had in the first place.
How curious that you show support for someone who tars people with the same brush in one hand, yet waves her magic formula with the other. Double standards is not what helps. Honesty does however !!

1. It is not immoral to repeat the fact that you are Bi-polar. You told us so. Not that I/we didn't know before you told us because it's obvious to those of us that have lived it. In fact, I asked you...to see if I could get you to admit it and you did.

2. It is not illegal. We are all anonymous here so there can't be any defamation and we aren't practicing medicine without a license. However, if you still think we are breaking the law, perhaps you should call the police. It's a long-shot but my hope is they will commit you and MAKE you take medication to treat your unmedicated bi-polar mania.

3. I AM a doctor. How dare you "judge" my qualifications.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - thank Lur. for the kind words to my wife. We were aware you are bi-polar (again because you told us so) but have no problem with treated bi-polars at all. We find them to be wonderful people that the world would be less vibrant without. We TRY to always be careful to indicate we are talking UNTREATED (by express choice) bi-polar when addressing bingo about his problem. Having lived it yourself...isn't it obvious to you (even if he hadn't told us)?

Not everyone's symptoms are the same, and there is no blood test to confirm the disorder. Researchers postulate that bipolar disorder may be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Bipolar disorder can appear to be unipolar depression. Diagnosing bipolar disorder is often difficult, even for mental health professionals. What distinguishes bipolar disorder from unipolar depression is that the affected person experiences states of mania and depression. Often bipolar is inconsistent among patients because some people feel depressed more often than not and experience little mania whereas others experience predominantly manic symptoms.

Should therefor an untrained thread contrubutor be daignosing such things ?

You are not a medical doctor. I am a doctor but would not diagnose anything medical. It is illegal !!!

Nuff said.


Luri -

Awww, thank you...You will get there in the not so distant future - Remember who you are TODAY - Today is what counts - focus on that...When you do that, you will stop identifying with the old wayward you - it will be like looking back on a total stranger...

I saw your post the other day saying that you were taking a break - I understand, but hope you will stick it out...Shout out to me or Mel when you feel like that - Mel has repeatedly reminded me over the years about what is true about me TODAY - she has been a Godsend for me...

I also wanted to tell you how healing your posts are for me - and to thank you for that...Watching someone with Bipolar Disorder take charge of their own health - accepting the diagnosis and taking personal responsibility is truly salve to my soul. Your family is very blessed to have you...

Luri, I'm so glad you are here!

Mrs. W

I only stated that a long long time ago I was diagnosed with mild bi-polar immediately after my Father had committed suicide. I have not been diagnosed with that since or before. I was depressed (obviously) and it has, in the main, been put down to greiving.
In fact, I went to see my quack only last week and was given the all clear on that front. You must, please not offer advice on medical conditions if you are not a medical practitioner. You have admitted that you are a Doctor of law. That does not qualify you to practice medicine !!

Good grief, if I had just a PENNY for every time I heard the same words from my father's mouth, Bill Gates would look like a pauper in comparison to me...

SIGH...

Mrs. W

You know the definition of pornography is another well disputed thing. There have been supreme court cases and it's been debated in one way or another for 100's of years.

Despite that...

I know it when I see it.

You can deny all you want. I spent HOURS on the phone with my father-in-law going in circles with the EXACT same discussion. Arguing with me about which doctors said what and what each doctors qualifications were and him tellimg me that "you are no doctor". I'd go through his history of manias with him and he just wouldn't couldn't understand. Eventually, I just talked with him for hours to keep him from harassing my mother in law.

In the end...it didn't matter that I was right and he was wrong. There is/was no satisfaction from being right. He's dead. At age 61, from heart failure. A deeply flawed and broken man THAT WE STILL LOVED. I told him 2-3 years before that the NEXT mania episode he had was going to kill him and it did. After 10+ heartattacks in prior manias (starting at about YOUR age) there was no other possible outcome.

Just like your untreated mania is going to EVENTUALLY kill you. (and you've got a baby on the way)

Mr. Wondering

I understand your concern and actually appreciate it. I do indeed have a baby on the way and have indeed sought medical advice just in case you were right.
I have been advised by a clinical psychologist that I am not bi-polar. I was an artist (musical)from a very early age and gave that up as a profession many years ago. I have been told that the creative streak that satisfied me so, that cannot any more, can create difficulties.
That said, I have never hit the lows described by you except in greif and whilst I can be a moody so and so, it is not what you think.
I am not wishing to offend, but not every person who has either mood swings or depression are bi-polar.
By the way, you have not seen this. You have had a snap shot of a much bigger picture. Even my wife would disagree, and she has supposedly been on the receiving end of all of this.
Cheers

Thanks so much for your response Mrs. W.

Obviously your post from the other thread struck a cord with me. What you wrote in response cleared it up.

I am a person that enjoys other people getting laughs at my expense. I am careful asking questions so that it doesn't bias the answer. It was as difficult asking the question here as it was with my W. She didn't understand it either.

I am very careful not to judge other peoples mistakes. Even though I may not make their mistakes, I make mistakes (and there are plenty) that would not be a problem for them. In this situation, I need a understanding. I think I understand how A's happen, why they happen, what generally happens, and even how they are most likely going to end. It is amazing the common thread that connects all A's.

What matters to me is how FWW feels now 11 years post A, 1 year post D-day. My W has great command of the English language both written and verbal until she is under stress. Couple this with poor communication over difficult subjects in the past along with her nonconfrontational personality, you have to piece together different conversations to get the information needed.

I could not cope with my W looking back at her A as a "Bridge Over Madison County" event.

Emotions are real at the time they happen. I could be walking through the house in the dark and the cat brush up against me scaring the living daylights out of me. After I turn on the lights and see the cat, it was nothing to fear. But at that moment I was scared. That emotion was real even though there was no need for it. Hopefully with hindsight, it is possible to see them for what they were.


My belief is there comes a point where there has to be a certain amount of faith. This beautiful, caring, compassionate Christian woman I fell head over heels for 35 years ago, made a huge mistake. She is working overtime not just to show me it was a mistake, but that she also intends for our love to flourish.

There will be hurdles ahead no doubt. My work is with the homeless is a thankless job. I tell you what I've been told many times. You will never know how much good you are doing.

Thank you.

rc

Isn't there a way to block posters from thread.

So well put RC. I too believe that one should not judge others mistakes.
It is good to hear that after a time you gained faith and are allowing your love to flourish. Exactly what i am trying to acheive.
As you quite rightly say. It is about perspective.
I found very similar with my wife, in that she was unable to express to me quite how bad things were as she too was unconfrontational.
Your post meant a great deal to me thanks.
If by blocking poster, you meant me, then I will not post again on this thread should you so wish.
Peace

It might be a bit unrealistic to believe that judgement can be eliminated when the choices effected us on such a personal level. I try though.

Sometimes the faith comes from knowing that there are times when logical questions sometimes exist without a logical answer.

Bingo, I don't mind if you post, I appreciate your comments. Just try to keep it on topic to the thread.

I think I'm glad my wife can't sing!

You're very welcome!


Good deal!


LOL! I was laughing WITH you!


I understood perfectly once you clarified...FWWs here get asked many variations of the "feelings" question, I just didn't want to make you read a novel!

Makes me think of joke actually - A little boy comes to his mother and asks, "What does sex mean?"...His mother goes into a long drawn out explanation of the birds and the bees...After which the little boy looking puzzled says, "Ummmmm, okay...Dad called and said he'd be home in a couple of secs"...


I'd be careful with this though - I think it IS important to judge bad behavior - I certainly look back as my affair as such...It is important that your wife judges her affair as bad behavior...very important actually...



Yes, affairs themselves do have very common aspects...Be careful not to compare recoveries though - Just because I see or feel a certain way NOW, doesn't mean that your wife does [yet] - her time line may very well be different - ESPECIALLY because she kept her affair a secret for such a long time - that would indicate a continued wayward mindset and I would be wary of such...


Withholding the truth is not due to difficulty with communication, rc2009...Again, be wary of this...

My recommendation is that the two of you go to a Marriage Builders Weekend - it is FANTASTIC - you would then both have access to Dr. Harley daily on the private forum here, as well as an accountability program to help you apply MB in your marriage - for life...

It baffles me that more BSs don't require this actually - the marriage wouldn't be worth recovering with someone unwilling to put these concepts into practice...It is simple "just compensation" and the resulting marriage is fabulous...


Well I don't blame you! If I hadn't learned all that MB has to offer I may well have looked upon my affair that way! [Eeeewwww...I shudder to think! ]


Good analogy! I wouldn't rely on "hope" though, RC...In your position I would most assuredly make learning and applying MB a requirement to remain married to me...


I am very glad to hear that she is willing to put in the work, RC! Does that include learning and applying MB concepts?


Those hurdles are far easier to manage with the right tools and training...I pray that you and your wife will avail yourselves of all that MB has to offer...It is so very worth it!

And again, you are very welcome! ANYTIME!

Mrs. W

I am learning a great deal from this thread. Something that Mrs W . Said to me struck a chord .
I followed this one because I wanted to try to understand how someone would risk all for an affair, however brief . The " no logic " aspect ofwhat Mrs W said made some sense .
My wife came clean,proved herself to be telling the truth and by goodness has she worked hard to right a wrong, but it was difficult to understand how someone could fall for fantasy over reality, bit maybe that is too bigger question to have a simple answer to .
I know that my marriage is considered unworthy here and I appreciate why, but without covering old ground, papers had been served, I was living alone or with my kids and some 6 months had passed before I met my now wife . Bad timing yes, bad decision, well I don't think so .
The reality of an affair, if that is what I had, is that reality hits pretty quick . Step kids, houses, no money, laundry and then babies certainly would knock a fantasy right on the head . None of what I did would I consider a fantasy as it was never ever a secret . No sneaking , no lying, no deceipt . My exw was fully aware at all times and a year after we separated we all sat down to discuss how to introduce the kids to my new partner . Anyway, that's the past and having lived it, I know that my wife now was not under any illusion when we met and would never have involved herself with me had she known anything other that what was reality .
Anyway . It is interesting to hear from another perspective how foggy things can become without anyone realising quite how bad things are getting . My wife hates herself for what she did and I accept that, even though she cheated, it would never have happened had we had the right things in place at the time . I have to accept that I played a part in that and as such, I am at fault not for the ONS, but putting our relationship in a place where fantasy looked a better option.
Getting over it is difficult because I wish to understand, but as you say Mrs W ,sometimes these things defy logic and we have to have faith that what we are doing to build a strong marriage is enough to avoid any possibilty of anything like this happening again .
Thank you

Mrs. W.

I am aware and share the many concerns you mentioned in your post. Actually, those concerns keep my anxiety level a little higher than it should be.

There is quite a bit of similarity between your answer and my W's. She did not mention fantasy, but she did mention that the relationship was protected from the normal grinds of life. Mortgages, kids, etc. She also told me it never would have lasted. Differences in philosophy in religion, politics, his bad temper would have brought it to an end.

I mentioned to W that I felt like she still had a "wayward mentality" about 6 months back. Did not make her happy. She thought it meant she would step out on me again. She never did grasp that it was in relation to her comments, justification of A. One conversation was we had been happy with normal small problems and the next I never knew what I was missing in my marriage until I met OM.

W and I are doing as much MB as possible without the MB weekend. We wasted 8 months on the first counselor. Since then we have counseled with Steve. 10 sessions. We also attended 8 week course from Family Dynamics that uses Harley's materials. Steve knows the people there and said they do great things with the material. The hard part is keeping the commitment long term.

I have not wanted FWW to post in the past. She has read a few things I have printed off. It might be time to let her come and share the story from her perspective.

Are there suggestions for the right time for the FWW to come on board?

rc,

It worked for Mrs. W and I.

All I did was send her a link...she linked in and started reading. Sure enough SHE starting posting (I had just been a lurker at the time...SHE posted before I ever did).

It's made a HUGE difference...for us.

I think it's difficult for a BH to clear the fog from a FWW. We aren't supposed to be all "emotional" and stuff and we often don't have the tools nor vocabulary to address these things properly.

IF she's foggy or makes foggy statements HERE on the boards. She'll get called on it...by US and not you. YOU will be there with her to discuss the issues presented here as a "problem-solving team".

There will be times you'll just sit back and let the board handle issues and other times, even though you MAY agree with us...you take her side and either defend her here or defend here there and talk about how "crazy" or "cult-like" we all are here. lol

A BH trying to "teach" his FWW is just too parental seeming and feeling and IMO isn't productive...thus, the result is...the issues get swept under the rug which is BAD for BOTH of you.

Mr. Wondering