Could you lend us the Beatles rock band please? I was looking at that the other day when I was looking for more mentally stimulating wii things.

it looked ace.

I found "up" disappointing and didn't make me cry as much as I expected it to - still soaked a few tissues though. Mind you i'm quite often disappointed when I see a film at the cinema - they seem better at home to me.

Hope you have a great evening.


I hope someone answers that LBing in the car Q? Mark, I can sit and take the LB in the car w/o LBing myself but I hate J so much afterwards that I can't go near him for a couple of days. If the children are there I point blank tell him to save it, while flapping about like mad trying not to get sucked in and let him know that the children do not need to be subjected to it usually with lots of head twitching and death stares - usually does the trick. I then explain to the children that mummy and daddy need to take a deep breath and think about how to say things nicely to each other, so that we can understand each other better.

I don't know how MB this is, but I have heard people use the ouch phrase before. Could a spouse say "Children in the car listening" as an ouch type phrase? Maybe a calm mantra/response every time they pause or ask a question?

What happens when it doesn't work. Despite the ouch phrase or any other the torrent continues - teh rest of you powerless to do anything but listen?

Even though both have previously agreed on the phrase and the action that should follow.

That would be very hard. My instinct would be to say, "Could you please let the children and me out at the next stop?" I am sure that would be LB'ing in some way. But if the answer really is to remove myself and my children, then I assume that means remove myself and my children. I'm not being obtuse, but it doesn't make sense to say, "In this situation, remove yourself, but in THIS situation, just take it and let your kids hear it." If it's damaging to the kids in a room without wheels, ten it's damaging to the kids in a room with wheels. KWIM? But like I said before, that might not b strict MB. But I admit I am a bit of a rebel sometimes. Like PeeWee Herman - I'm loner, a rebel.

L4:

I am glad that you are recognizing your LB about his job. Notice how you responded with his comment to yu about upgrading your JOBS?

THink about that dynamic for a moment.

I like your idea about the budget. Put it all down. If the economy is such that your H may get laid off, then a huge stress release is knowing that the family can survive for a period of time with certain worst case scenarios.

And contact your employers and ask about health insurance coverage and how much it might cost if your wanted to purcahse it even as a part-timer.

With some recent tax law changes, if your H is laid off, the Government is going to fund 65% of the laid off empoyees health insurance, so the COBRA Payment by the employee is only for 35%. Please review that.

How about reading FILSIL together? My W has handed me hundreds of books, that SHE thought I should read. (Remember, she is a librarian with access to ALL OF THEM....) It was a consistent LB to me. Ask him about that. Do a chapter a week.

UP was ok. Too many plot devices for me. We both bawled our eyes out at FIREPROOF.


LG

Might be a little late, but BK, I realize they didn't actually "deal" with the affair in the movie at all. I was trying to point out to Sis that the movie was in fact about, that is dealt with, an affair and not about an almost affair or any such thing.

I used the word because she used it and I used it in the same context and with the same meaning as she used in her post.


We don't know what they did as far as recovery steps because they don't show the recovery process.

Is that blameshifting ya think?

Mark

I stopped getting into a car with my H for a year. It was one of those things, "it takes what it takes," and it had gotten so drastically out of hand that it was obvious beyond a shadow of a doubt that I could not get into a car with him. It created a huge amount of its own conflict at first. My H refused for a while to go places in a separate car. So he would tell me not to go, and then, because he was not enthusiastic, I didn't go. This was a great way for me to practice POJA, giving myself permission to stop doing the things I was not enthusiastic about doing.

We didn't take a plane trip together that year, but if we had, I would have been O&H with my H ahead of time that I was going to press the flight attendant button and get myself reseated if he got hostile with me on the plane. I wish I'd had the willingness to be similarly O&H with him about the car thing, but I didn't get it until it was too late.

Awesome! Honestly, I feel like a kid at Christmas time who got what they actually asked for. Baby steps ........


Actually L4, I originally wrote mine and what you wrote, but then I thought .......

L4 won't ........

be doing .........

any lovebusting!

I is thinking postive!

I think it failed and erred badly by ignoring the elephant in the room. It was right up there with unicorns and moonbeams IMO.

I also think the whole premise was wrong and lopsided in that it only dealt with Caleb owning and addressing his issues but his wife did nothing except lap it up.

It's very common even around here - a wife or husband won't engage. It's more often than not a recipe for cake-eating.

</rant>

L4,

Just wanted to say hi. Sorry to digress from your thread but I just wanted to drop you a line. I get so much encouragement from your thread and so much knowledge from the vets that post here.

Hey lady!! Any good news to report? **fingers crossed**

Hello Looking4,

Just wanted to let you know that Mrs.Flint and I have been following along with you...

I really didn't know what to say as you seemed to be trying soooooo hard to do everything right.

It finally dawned on me WHY your H seems to be so afraid of engaging in the marriage again....and it's not just YOUR part in the affair.

For a very long time I wondered how Mrs.Flint's affair could have gone on without me being aware of it....like Mr.L4.

He seems embarrassed that this could have happened and for him to be completely taken unaware of the affair.

The reason is that BOTH Mrs.Flint and I had withdrawn from the marriage and we were no longer BONDED WITH EACH OTHER.

When she withdrew it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to have known BECAUSE I WAS ALSO WITHDRAWN.

THE CLUES THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN APPARENT IN A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WERE NO LONGER PRESENT FOR ME TO SEE.

MR.L4 needs to realize that in a HEALTHY marriage he would have been able to see the BEGINNING OF YOUR WITHDRAWAL and take corrective measures before they ever got close to being an affair.

He was taken so by surprise that he may be afraid to commit to a marriage with you again because he may feel that there is no way to PREVENT or to FORETELL problems in the marriage before they reach the point of an affair.

I thought for a while that I must have something wrong with me that I couldn't see what was going on. Then I realized that there was nothing wrong with me or my ability to see problems in the marriage WHEN YOU ARE FULLY ENGAGED IN THE MARRIAGE!!!

Mr.L4 NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH HIS RADAR, HE JUST DIDN'T HAVE IT TURNED ON.....

God bless, L4.

Jim

I agree that he may have been able to have sense the withdrawal had the marriage been healthy.
However, I am not sure that sensing this would have led him to the conclusion that his wife inteneded to cheat.
Nor, do I feel there was neccessarily anything he could have done to prevent the cheating had he sensed withdrawal.
L4 had cheated in the past and yet still opted for this route. It seems like cheating was her coping mechanism of choice. She even allowed this man to marry her without disclosing her infidelity. So, I do not think one can say that had he sensed her withdrawal, he could have prevented the cheating.

Hi Zelmo,

I think that you are assuming that L4 WANTED to cheat for cheating sake. If that was truly the case I would believe that NOTHING would keep her from cheating.

I do not.

I believe that L4 cheated because she did not have the knowledge AT THAT TIME of knowing that there were ALTERNATIVE ways of coping other than cheating...

If Mr.L4 and L4 marriage had been healthy and they were connected with each other's EN's then he would have sensed that SOMETHING was wrong in the marriage, NOT, necessarily that she was going to cheat.

People in a healthy marriage CARE ABOUT EACH OTHER'S EN's and he would have been able to make inquiry as to WHAT was wrong in their marriage and take corrective actions for them...

Cheaters that cheat simply to cheat are going to cheat no matter what their spouse does.

I do not and have never believed that was the case with L4.

Blessings.

Jim

Zelmo -- Sometimes your posts make me ponder. Often they make me sad. Sometimes they confuse me while other times they make me smile. Occasionally they make me shake my head and I think I�ve even laughed at a few of your posts. Which is why I don't have you (or anyone) on ignore, so that I can read all sides and get a myriad of thoughts from all who choose to participate here.

But today your words on this thread and on SisterReed's thread have pissed me off. And I can�t sit on it this time. I try to keep with the kumbaya around here -- I'm not a hater -- but tonight I feel compelled to ask...

Are you ever going to back off?

I ask you to please either tell me what I need TO DO to HELP my H � as in what I should be doing differently � or support my efforts to improve myself and recover my M. Heck, just tell a funny joke if you can�t do either but still feel you must type something. Or start your own thread where you can wax on as you wish with your commentary about how we FWWs think, feel, and act due to our this, that, and the other. But don't bring me down just to bring me down.

Please.

It's getting old.

Jim -- Just seeing your name on here brought a big smile to my face. A big one! I've missed you and Mrs. Flint so it's nice to know you're still following. And thank you very much for sharing your dawning. Certainly something to consider in the mix.

(I have this vision of you or Mrs. Flint sitting at the computer when one of you says, "Should we see what crazy L4 is up to today?" The other says, "Let's flip a coin." If it lands on heads, you two gather 'round ye ol' screen and have a gander. If it's tails, you breathe a sigh of relief and do something else.)

ST -- The Rock Band games stay here. We're all having much fun with them. I'm finding myself wondering if/how I should be reacting to some of the songs that H and I like that take on a different light when a 6-year-old girl is singing the lyrics, KWIM? For example, "The Joker" by The Steve Miller Band doesn't sound right coming from the lips of a child. "I'm a joker, I'm a smoker, I'm a midnight toker�"

LG -- My hairs go up when H talks about me getting a full-time job because I think there may be an ulterior motive. After I confessed (when I was unemployed) he used to tell me I better hurry to get a job so I could support myself once we were divorced. Or he didn't want to have to pay for my insurance since he knew I didn't want to be with him. So when he pushes me to find full-time work or a job with benes, it makes me nervous. But then, it is what it is. I can't live in fear or project, right?

NED -- I can't believe you didn't ride with your H for a whole year. That's amazing.

V -- I was trying to keep the Q's non-specific to my situation so as to not influence the answers. But so we're clear, I am not/will not be LBing.

Hi, Lindz. Glad to see you poking your nose in now and then. You too, B_R.

Something has happened that I am highly embarrassed to admit, but it is affecting our Affection and UA tremendously so it's probably an appropriate piece of info here.
Yep. I do. Bet you didn't see that coming. And it S-U-C-K-S.

Not only because the thought of these little things on me gives me the heebies, but because H doesn�t want �em and is keeping his distance. We haven't hugged since the discovery on Wednesday. I've tried but he doesn't really hug back and he's certainly not seeking me out. He won't let me sleep in our bed or crawl into his arms on the couch so I don't get his warmth or morning snuggles let alone SF. And I am bummed.

Did I tell you I have wavy hair that goes down to the middle of my back? And my hair color is about the same color of the little buggers? Good times� NOT.

My daughter brought it home from her best friend about three weeks ago. We thought we got rid of it so we got lazy. It came back and DS8 got it. So for a week we cleaned and combed and paid attention. They both got a clean bill from the school�s nurse so we once again thought we were done. Not the case, we learned three days later. And now I�ve joined the fray. So, yes, H and I are getting UA time as he goes through my hair every night for 45 - 60 minutes. But I wouldn't call it quality UA. And because my kids have it too, I spend about three hours every day changing sheets, vacuuming mattresses, vacuuming upholstery, making beds, doing laundry, tumbling comforters, picking at and combing kids' heads... We look like a tribe of grooming baboons for goodness sake!

Most resources say we must be diligent for at least one solid week (so 5 more days/nights of this) then thorough checks and washings every two days for a week, then every few days for a week, then once a week. That is if we find fewer and fewer as the time goes. Once/if the number goes up again, we start all over. Ack!

I hope H doesn't keep me out of our bed the entire time.

BTW... I didn't read any ideas for Valentine's Day. Are we all idea-ed out here? I pulled out a lot of stops last year, people, so I'm open to suggestions.

Oh� I have a solo appointment with Steve Harley Monday morning. I'm looking forward to it.

Have a great weekend.

Eww, nits, or as we say over here - cooties.

I remember the girls getting them almost constantly for 2 years. I had a friend who I loved, but would not treat all her kids whenever one got them, so someone was always passing them to the others, and she has four kids! She also wouldnt treat herself unless she got itchy So my 2 had them constantly until we moved away.

I wish I could send you the stuff I used. I used to wash their hair with the lice shampoo, then spray this stuff the chemist made up and comb thru with the fine tooth comb. I dipped the comb in a pot of boiling water between strokes and I did that every second day for 2 whole years for the four of us. Even Flick with his super short hair caught them twice.

Good luck!

Yikes, L4.
I had an awful year when DD22 was in 2d or 3d grade.
She, her then-best friend, and her now-best friend were all in the same class. Then BF's mother was dying of breast cancer.
They kept passing headlice to each other. Over and over and over again. Our little private elementary school would call me up when BF had them so I could take her home and clean her up. I washed pillows. I washed stuffed animals. We did chemicals. We combed.

We finally got rid of them with a combination of a really short haircut and plastering her favorite stuffed animal with chemicals, then washing and drying.

Hey L4

I've made a great discovery over here. DD is avoiding the twins who constantly have them but there have also been several casesin her class this year and she hasn't had them I put it down to this
Keep away

It is excellent - I have always had to use seperate conditioner for DD but with this I don't anymore.

They do a spray too.

Valentine's day seems to get missed in this household - too close to my birthday. We're away for a few nights alone the next day - so that will be the most we've ever done for valentine's day (even thought he trip is really for J's b'day which was december)

You excelled yourself so much last year that any suggestions I think of see paltry in comaparison

Hi L4.

This may be presumptious of me, but sometimes it almost sounds as if never putting anyone on ignore is a "point of pride" for you. I base this on several comments you've made over the last year.

In one sense, I think that shows great openness to hearing hard truths.

In another sense I think it is kind of foolish, particularly if you feel the need to engage with unhelpful (mostly because it's been done to death) commentary. Such a waste of energy for you.

Perhaps you should reconsider?

ETA - made this post before reading the rest of yours....Yikes! Hope you get it dealt with soon. I can't blame Mr L4 for wanting to take every precaution. ((L4))

I'll reconsider, kerala. Thanks. I usually try not to address the unhelpful posts but yes, sometimes I get sucked in.

The head thing is really dragging me down. I'm so tired of cleaning and picking and being ever vigilant. My workload has increased a lot and I'm not motivated to keep with its pace. I hate sleeping by myself and not having the snuggles, affection, and physical contact with H that I need, especially when I'm feeling as out of sorts as I am.

I was up throughout the night coughing and tossing. I really hope I'm not getting sick on top of everything else.

I met with Steve this morning. And as with the two times before, it was time and money very well spent. I'll try to paraphrase the highlights.

I have to find a way to get H to understand that we need help. Steve gave additional ideas. One is to help H understand that doing MB is not counseling but coaching -- like personal trainers. Training to make our M better. He suggested I approach H like the logical man H is and tell H how I need his help. That I like H's ability to be analytical and I'd like him to help me investigate MB to see if it might work in helping with his and our happiness. Let him know that based on what I've learned, I think it's worth investigating further.

H may see disagreeing with him as being disrespectful. He may have a belief that disagreements are disrespect. Which could explain why when I don't agree with H or I impose a boundary that he doesn't understand, why H responds defensively.

He said to not focus on the plan (like whether or not to use MB, MC, books, etc.) but on the goal and to work with H to find a solution. Our goal needs to be to have a great M not that we must see an MC. I told Steve that I've asked H many times directly and indirectly if he wants to have a happy M with me and H says he doesn't know. Or that he doesn't believe in M period. I asked what if none of this works as I'm getting tired of being told by my H that he doesn't love me. Steve said not to get ahead of myself and that if H doesn't change his mind or I'm nearing the point where I can't go much longer, that I should call Steve.

There is romantic love which is a deep, happy, I-am-attracted-to-you-and-want-to-be-with-you-and-do-things-for-you kind. And there is caring love which is a willingness-to-bond-in-a-platonic-way kind. Romantic love is what you have with someone who can meet your emotional needs.

Love is conditional. (This has been covered in other threads and in MB newsletters so I won't elaborate here.) The feeling of being in love is a product of someone meeting one's emotional needs.

He explained how my H is responsible for me to be in love with H, just as I am responsible for H being in love with me. I can't make myself fall in love with H. He has to make me. As I have to make him.

There is one exception to this, however. Even if one is perfect and doing everything right such as meeting every EN perfectly and not LBing and perfectly applying POJA, etc., choice is still involved. And that is the choice of the recipient. The recipient has to choose to let one's actions in -- they can choose to shut out someone who is doing things perfectly, to shut out that person's love. Or they can choose to accept them.

Regarding AOs and LBs and disrespectful conversations, Steve said that I must enforce boundaries. He said if H crosses a boundary, I should tell H that what I did does not justify disrespecting me in that way. He said how anyone chooses to react to someone else is a choice. Yes, you may make me angry, but I can respond by taking out the garbage, leaving the room, taking a jog, screaming into a pillow, writing in my journal... Yelling at someone isn't the only way to express one's anger. Saying, "You made me angry which is why I am yelling at you," is an incorrect justification for an LB. I am the only one who makes me yell at anyone.

Steve emphasized that it's not just the changing of behaviors that are needed to repair a broken M. (Which is what many MCs focus on.) It's the changing of beliefs.

If you don't think DJs are a bad thing, if someone makes you aware of them you can change your behavior temporarily to stop the DJs. But if you don't change your belief that DJs are bad, your behavior will eventually reflect that belief and the DJs will return.

So, if I want H to stop an LB then I need to not only tell him what the LB is but why and how it hurts me in hopes that he'll see and believe that doing such an LB is a bad thing. He can choose to change a belief and thus change his behavior. Or he can choose not to and keep his behavior. Same as it is for anyone else.

Until one's belief system is corrected (and thus the behavior is legitimate and going to stick), you "need to be a bit guarded, according to Steve.