Pick up some flowers today. Not roses, but some nice, simple mixed bouquet.... Tell her, "I thought this might cheer US up"......

Not2fun

ps....t/j..... Mark, donchta have a class to go teach or something.....

Patriot,

Awesome post by my wife.

By the way...getting her to go out with you and do something...anything...is often a chore in and of itself.

YOU'LL have to arrange the sitters...
YOU'LL have to make the plans...
YOU'LL have to almost coerce her to get out...

Try to make plans without really consulting her too much as she is depressed and won't want to do anything but wallow in her misery. She is more likely to agree on Tuesday to do something on Friday than if you ask her Friday afternoon...so take advantage of that, make the plans, buy the tickets or whatever such that when Friday comes...she really can't back out.

Movies are good because, like my wife said, there is no talking required. Even scheduling family things to do that she is kinda obligated to go along with are good.

You just want to distract her and start building a new "functionality" for her. YOU are trying to LEAD her out of the funk.

Things are going to be "heavy" for quite some time. These plans you make and the excuse you use to get her out is just that...."we BOTH need a break from this seriousness and drama...let's just go catch a movie and have some fun, without any serious "talks"". Then follow through and don't force deep conversation...just be nice, avoid lovebusters and TRY to be the nice, funny, confident man that you were when you first courted her (ya know...they guy she fell in love with and married to begin with).

There really isn't a reason you shouldn't be holding your head high here. YOU didn't cheat...and YOU are being quite the stand up honorable husband standing by his wife despite what she just did TO YOU. Be proud of yourself for the strength you are exhibiting for her and your family...and allow that "confidence" to shine through. YOU will make it with or without her....whereas, her only real option to the "happiness" she pursues is through YOU. She has no right to divorce you...and will forever be miserable if she does. So you really needn't be desperate or needy. YOU are the strong one here in the much stronger bargaining position....but to save HER and your family you must be prudent, strategic and most of all...PATIENT.

Finally...we are NOT telling you to sweep this all under the rug. You've done well so far standing up for yourself and even removing yourself from conversations that upset you. As time goes by...she'll be more receptive to productive conversation and hopefully to getting on board with a recovery plan. However, right now...she's just mean and hurtful. Hurt people...hurt people. She has to get through this initial hurt before she can focus even a little on anything productive. The fog will continue for many months...even years. YOU even will have and suffer some "Betrayed Spouse Fog"...which, if you'll notice, is a part of "Plan A" ...working on yourself, identifying your emotional needs and the things YOU do/did that are/were lovebusters. Regardless if your marriage works out...take time to focus on and take care of yourself to be the best husband, father and person YOU can be.

Mr. Wondering

She is actually very intelligent....just not right now.

Good advise, but there is no way she going to go out right now. She is just soooo angry. She has moments of clarity, then the fog returns. For me the key right now is getting back in the work force and having something else to think about. I really think this will make a big difference for both of us. She wants me to go back and now that an offer has been made, she actually offered to be more flexible with her schedule, as before it was no way. Last night sucked though. She was mad about everything, vacilating back and forth about a divorce. Started out bad, good middle, bad end. Once the subject comes up about the exposure, all hell breaks lose. Then it's I've lived with years of emotional neglect. Your family has never liked me. I try and tell her that I understand and will be better, but it has no effect, even makes her angrier. She is traveling (with her boss) for a few days this week, so we'll see how it goes. Then she is taking the kids to a friends lake house this weekend. I like her friend, but she knows nothing about this and my wife will only tell her about me (no affair talk) and I'm sure her friend will give her the if your not happy move on speach, which may push her over the edge. Up till now she has had little support, but this is the girl she would be leaning on if she takes the position in Houston, so if she is all "you can do it, we can help" talk, it's going to carry a lot of weight. Guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

One thing I have noticed about people who are doing things they know to be wrong, they, invariably, find others who will support them in their misdeeds. Thye consistently reject hearing from anyone that disagrees with their course of action. And, they give out misinformation to garner support.
I'd keep exposing, despite the fact that it infuriates her. I think in time, the disapproval wil have an effect on her.

Why aren't you going with her and the kids?

If you are worried about what she'll tell her friend, you should talk to her friend first.

Also, you need to be consulting a lawyer TODAY. If she takes that position and brings the kids with her it's already too late. You need to have papers drafted in the event that she decides to move to Houston (unless you are moving with her that is). I still would be hesistant about moving to Houston because you will be giving up your trump card of primary custody. But you would eventually need her to find a job where she doesn't travel as much if you are going to save your marriage. It's a catch 22.

If she goes to Houston, it wouldn't be for a couple months. I think she knows that it will not happen. I have already told her we either both stay here, or she leaves and I keep the kids...PERIOD. I have the resources, law and support on my side so I'm not worried. And yes, I have spoken to an attorney (3 times) but not retained one. As for her friend, she wouldn't talk to me. She's her freind, not mine and she wont take my calls. I'm sure she will omit the finance issue, the affair or anything else negative and say how I have been an emotionaly absent husband and how misrable she is. That I'm trying to take her kids....blah blah blah. So she will have the support of one or two people. Family and mutual friends she has lost. Time will tell.

She left this morning for Oklahoma and just called between flights. Very down, very sad sounding. Talked about nothing and I asked her if she was ok, and she said no. I asked if there was anything I could do and she said I can't talk to you about what's bothering me...i.e OM. Her boss has asked her to take some time off, but she has resisted till now. I told her to take time off and go see her parents. I could tell she was hedging but said no. I think that would be a good thing for her right now. Get away from here, and having her family with her might help. Let me ask you Mrs W. how long did it take for you to come back? as your marriage good before that? We have been on rocky ground for a while, so I don't know that the foundation is there. I know for a fact that once I'm working again that it will help. Since she does a lot of work from home, being in each others presence all the time is not good. Yesterday was a pretty good day for her. I was trying to keep active, so I cleaned her car, then I went to her favorite Indian rest. and picked her up some lunch (unanounced) and a few other things and although I was here, I was keeping busy to give some space. She seemed good, very thankful and appreciative for what I did. Now today, the doom is back. I KNOW if he calls, she will go running back. I'm about 90% sure there has been no contact, or perhaps she may have tried to contact him and there was no response. Not being a women and obviously not having the greatest understanding of them, I have been told by some women friends that besides the obvious attraction, women hate for things to end badly, which it did. Tey had a big blow up, hotel security was called to there room and they were seperated. I was told SURPRISE that this to was my fault. That I may not have been there, but I put the bullets in the gun and created the situation. TS!! Then I have to have her calling me at 4am to come get her. "I'm all messed up, I don't know what I'm doing". Then her text to him saying it's over, I'm going home to work on my marriage and I never want to speak with you again". That lasted a day. Then I have to listen to her rationalize the fight and say she started it, that she still loved him.... WTF! Now for the last week she hasen't moved from the couch. Once in a while she perks up, then gone. And I know myself, any more physical contact and it's over. I have no idea how someone could follow this program where you may wait 6 months, allowing your wife to sleep with another man and then taking her back. This is all just so gross.

Most people cannot do the 6 months with the spouse banging another, patriot. You are not alone in this. For many people, cheating is a dealbreaker, Harley among them, apparently.
What she is doing is cruel and abusive, have no doubt about that. But, some folks take back spouses that beat them or emottionally abuse them. I do not know how they do it.
It seems the key is for the cheater/abuser to wake up and take steps to fix him/herself before the victim snaps and the point of no return is reached.
I heard on analogy re recovering that made a certain amount of sense to me. The author said recovering from an affair is much like restoring a tire that has gone flat. If attended to relatively quickly, the tire can be patched and restored to some extent. If someone drives on the flat for too long, the tire is shredded and the rim damaged such that it is beyond repair.
The longer your wife abuses you like this, the lower the odds for recovery. But, really, what more can you do. You have exposed and enforced boundaries. Now, the ball is entirely in her court. It is out of your control, now.

First, should you recover your marriage, that friend of hers that won't take your calls will have to go - any person that is not a friend to the marriage has no business in your lives...

Secondly, while I agree that it would be great if she could take time off from work, I do NOT agree that that time should be used to go visit her parents - NO WAY! You guys must spend that time together! Think about it this way - if you found out that the foundation to your home was crumbling, would you leave and just hope that the problem resolved on it's own, or would you stay there and do all that you could to fix it? You can't work on your marriage if you are apart...

My time line? OM first contacted me in Feb 2005 through classmates.com - [he lived 750 miles away] - March I went to visit my hometown and that is when the affair went physical - D day was in April - In May I went to visit for 2 weeks - stayed in a hotel - yes, I know - GAG - and it is unbelievable that I would do that in the face of Mr. W knowing - just giving you the facts - the affair ended in June - he ended it, because Mr. W and my mother conspired, and plotted together - it was decided that my mom would call him since she had known him for so many years - we had dated off and on for 9 years in high school and college - she threatened him to within in an inch of his life - told him to end it NOW and not tell me why - He ended it the next day without giving me the reason - Mr. W and my mom ROCK!] - All this was unbeknownst to me for more than a year after the affair ended...There was one additional email contact in July of that year - that was the final curtain...I began posting here July 2005...By August I was settled back into our marriage and actively working on recovery...that is not to say that I was completely without fog - that takes much longer...

As for our marriage prior to the affair? It was bad - we were both so detached from each other that it was ridiculous - Mr. W was considering divorce - I was considering suicide [ugh] - Mr. W looked at the possibility of recovery as being a chance to get the marriage he'd always wanted - me too, for that matter...Both of us working the MB program has given us more than we'd ever dreamed our marriage could be...

It can be done, Patriot...

Mrs. W

Her traveling must stop

DITTO!

Mrs. W

Just out of curiosity , Mrs w, how is it that within less than a month of hearing from this guy, you had sex with him? don't you need some level of emotional attachment for that?

Ya just don't get it do ya Z

Most waywards, especialy WW's, actually belive they HAVE that emotional connection.

It happened so fast, it's so strong, it MUST be real. He must be the one, or she would not feel this way!! Finally, the WW has found there soulmate.

They belive this Z

Would you agree with that Mrs. W?

Sorta Gack...The facts are that I had known OM since Jr. High School...I dated him off and on for 9 YEARS [in high school and college] - I had a past sexual history with him...Emotional connection? Yes...

Proves Dr. Harley's theory too...There remains a low burning flame between people that have had such a relationship - one that can be reignited at any time...It is why no contact is critical...

Mrs. W

Harley has said that anyone can have an A, if the situation is right. I believe it but I think that some people are more predisposed to it than others, one reason being this "instant attraction" attribute. I'm also wired like this (in fact, WW always thought I would be the one to have an A...haha) but it's balanced by a strong sense of morality and integrity. I will admit that there was one time in my life, when I was engaged to WW, that I was very tempted. It took some major self control to avoid a huge mistake. I guess some people only have so much self control and when things get "hot and heavy" then can't pull out (pun intended).

Please don't think I was picking you out as an example, I was talking WW's in general, and wanted your opinion on it as a Fww since I was kinda answering for you in a general way about all WW's


Did that even make a lick of sense?

But you must have a PLAN [extraordinary precautions], indarkness...Will power, morality and integrity will NOT alone protect you...The plan must be to never put yourself in temptation's way [boundaries]...If you continue to place yourself in tempting situations, eventually all of those things will fail you...It is playing Russian Roulette...Just because you've gotten lucky and haven't eaten a bullet YET doesn't mean that you won't eventually if you keep playing...So you follow a plan that includes NEVER playing Russian Roulette...

Mrs. W

LOL...Sorta...

Here's the thing, if you understand the concept of the lovebank it all falls into place...When a person allows someone besides their spouse to meet their emotional needs, feelings of romantic love will manifest - the feelings are real...The wayward DOES feel them...That doesn't change that the feelings exist in a fantasy world though - the affair partners are NOT living real day to day life with each other...But the connection typically does exist because of the wayward's choice to allow someone other than their spouse to fill their emotional needs...

Make sense?

Mrs. W

The thing i always found contradictory about what my firWW said was how quickly and easily she would engage in such a sacred and intimate act while claiming that she needed an emotional connection to get physical. This is why the rapidity of some of these affairs surprises me. You have a pesron claiming neglect of their emotional or spiritual needs , yet they jump inot bed with virtual strangers, Seems, well, hypocritical or very self deluded, IMO.
Thanks for the clarification on your sitch, Mrs W. Different than my XWW's. She was doing strangers she would meet in bars.