Just wanted to update.

Off down day. Went to AA meeting last night and got lost in it while there. Helped charge the batteries a little bit.

Crashed hard when I got home b/c DD16 went to lock in. She also is hanging with friends all day and will be home around 9pm. Really want to see her with a good group of teens. Shes had a few flaky bf's in the past 6 mo's that were lost puppies. She is seeing a 17 yo now that really impresses me. He's a doer of good. The lock in was his invite. He got excited b/c we have many Disney movies left over from W's daycare days. He loves to watch them. Hes polite, motivated, and has future goals which he openly shares. Seems almost too normal when compared to boys in the past.
Want DD to take it slow and just have fun as a teen. Not get serious w/anyone. Shes seen so much over the past few years.

Im's are in place now although WW is trying to go through DD. DD talked to me after talking to WW this afternoon. She told DD to make sure and tell dad I will be home in a few days.
She has not used IM yet and I have nothing to tell her at this point except refer to the letter..

WoHoo according to DD WW's got 2 days sober again. Have seen this start at least 100X's.

Lets see-promises to quit drinking-goes to a few AA meetings-or-calls a new sponsor-or-detox-or-treatment-stays sober a short time-starts sneeking drinks again (wonder why shes gotten a taste for vodka lately?) full blown binge for several days-during that time Baldo appears somewhere in the picture-to play hide the sausage with her since shes gotta have a drinking partner-thinks she gonna die-DUMBA$$>> Nesre jumps in to rescue her.....
STARTS ALL OVER AGAIN.

I know clearly why I'm here at PLB.

This time shes at her parents-they detoxed her-she has the PLB letter in her hands with instructions to call IM's. No car-No job-Really no money to speak of-they offered to let her stay ther for at least a month-
??Jumping off point to OM?? Maybe he can rescue her.

Been up and down all day. Took the dog for a long walk since its finally 20 degrees out. His little paws cant take the cold.

Feel like I gotta knot in the side of my stomach. I feel full like I've just eaten but haven't since about 10 am. I have a headache come and go only on the right side that I'm terribly aware of. Neck muscles are so tight it feels like it could snap. Been stumbling around the house for most of the day not really being able to put my finger on anything I wanna do even though there are many things to do. Just kinda feel lost and off.

Listened to a little music-drove 25 miles to mail the mail-picked up a few groceries-just to get outta here-really don't want to be around ppl at the moment. Surfed the board here.
Not like me to be lost. Usually I have some kind of project to get involved in.

Parents just called and invited us to meet them at a brunch tommorow am. Not sure if DD will go-She will probably be crapped out by the time she gets home but I will go.

Nesre

Need help!!!!

WW called me twice today and I let it go to VM. Had IM listen to messages and the jist was that she wants to talk about DD16.

I went over with IM that I really had no issues to discuss about DD.

I asked him to remind her of the 30 days of sobriety until I would have contact w/her. She has 3 days now.

Need a N/C letter written and sent to me for approval and then I send. Not done yet

Not to call my cell # unless its an emergency.

He delivered the message. She responded w/WE do not need you in the middle of this. I will be going home Monday. Nesre needs to put on his big boy pants and talk w/me.

I've talked to a lawyer b-4 and there is nothing I can do unless I file to keep her out of the house. Even then she can live in the house until a D would be final.
She already broke in through the garage service door thursday. Talked to the police b-4 PLB and told me they can do nothing as far as charges as long as her name is on the house.

Is this a ploy to

A: Keep me as miserable as possible and flaunt her drinking and OM more so I will leave.
I think besides paying the mortgage I will be responsible for CS then if DD would stay here. WW doesn't have anything to stand on now being in limbo with no real place to live.
DD would rather not move.

B: Manipulate the nuclear option on me with DV charges. Set me up somehow.

C: Set me up to be the bad guy-I wont let her come home. Her family is totally aware of the alcohol and A. I exposed all over the place. Just doesn't get it???

D: Totally entitled WW in such a fog that she doesn't even realize or comprehend what the PLB letter is about?? No empathy for DD or myself.

How do you proceed with this???? ANY IDEAS ARE WELCOME

Live up and down avoiding contact.
Physically Move
PlAN D to get the ball rolling

Nesre

Nesre, DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE! No matter what. If WW breaks down the walls, stand your ground. And DO NOT ENGAGE. Buy a voice recorder and keep it on you at all times. If she confronts you, this could save your a$$.

Plan B is really having an impact on her. It's quite obvious that OM isn't going to be able to handle her right now, and yet that's what needs to happen: She needs to see that OM isn't up to the task.

You are doing great! Her "visits" and attempts to gain access to the house are traumatic and unsettling, to say the least. But it doesn't sound like she's had the foresight of mind to engage the authorities to assist her. I'm betting she's too fogged to go that route. And unless and until you are ordered to grant her access to the house (or you can get your own version of a DV complaint filed) I'd say just keep on doing what you're doing.

Did I tell you you're doing great?

I vote for option "D" -- she's so fogged and you've caused her fantasy world to become a nightmare. Let's hope OM sees her this way and decides she's too much of a handful for him to want around...

Fred

B-4 i went PLB I talked to the police and they told me there was nothing I could do to keep her out of the house even if she broke in.

The authorities also will not assist her at getting into the house.

Would breaking the door down be DV??

Could I come from that angle??


Your 100% right about OM-I've witnessed him in the past not even acknowledge his ltr gf of 25 years. POS

Nesre

Do you have a voice-activated recorder? If she exhibits violent tendencies such as breaking down doors, she could be considered a threat to yourself and others. A VAR will go a long way in capturing her words, so even if the police won't help prevent her accessing the house, if she becomes irrationally enraged, you might be able to leverage that in a DV case...

Nerse,

If you have a video camera I would set it up too ....video would be huge if you do the d thing.....

just put it in the corner of the living room or hall on a shelf she'll never notice....

and don't tell her if you get her on tape I'd save that for later....

And you are doing great.....STAND YOUR GROUND

Thanks SC but all has changed.......

Monday night Feb 1 she plowed back into our home. She is sober again.

I knew she would not respect the PLB letter.

Now she is talking about me pushing abandonment charges on her.

She has finally acknowledged the exposure letters I sent almost a month ago.

They were mean-They were about as non judgemental as you could get and very short. I actually hand copied them from a post about exposure.

I am immature-Yes dear the lying and hiding and disapearing has been immature on your part. Also our family having to be aware and POSOM's family not having a clue-NOW THATs IMMAture.

I am only out to hurt people who don't know anything about the A. The A does not hurt anyone who does not know.

What would be a good response to this one???

Wants to see copies of all the letters and a list of who they were sent to.
You don't share any of this right??????

At this point she has promised no more alcohol and no contact with Baldo. She has shown me a NC letter-again-But has not given it to me to mail. I know there is some type of contact because she was lied to about what the exposure letters said.

I told her to track down the people and see the original ink written version if she wanted full proof. Knowing her she probably will track down every person.
She was told I called her a WH0@@e/Slvt/bad mother/alcoholic. My how it all gets twisted around.

I've seen it many times said on this board
"""DO NOT LEAVE YOUR MARITAL HOME""""

I don't know if I can stay. My mental health over the past 6mo's has had the crap kicked out of it. A 2 BR in a SECURITY BUILDING for myself and DD16 looks pretty good.


Life has not gone well as she is bouncing all over the place. Just going through the alcohol withdrawal and PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome-can last 0 to 24 mo's)kicking in has its own set of problems.

Exposure-now that shes not denying it has been great because I can ask or make comments that were totally denied b-4.

LOST LOST lost

Probably bail on everything. Financially I'm not in a position to pay for 2 places. Emotionally I don't know that PLA would even get through her. I don't trust either Addiction is done yet-or for very long.

Nesre

Finally I've come to the end with my alcoholic WW.

Talked twice today about plans for 2nite-last time at 4pm-and get home 6pm and she is no where to be found. Called when I saw the dogs out in the house=we don't leave them out when we are gone-Car is here so either she walked to the bar or duschebag-POS-MFer (IF he could gether drunk enough) picked WW up on the way throuygh

WILL SOMNEONE PLEASE COME AND KICK ME IN THE HEAD-PLEASE.........

Had a long talk with DD16 when she got home at 7pm.

Not gonna be MB's way-Just can't with absolutely no empathy for the sitch, on her part. No respect for personal boundries.

If the ALIEN IS'NT HERE THEN THE DRUNK IS......

TALKED to DD and she is still on board with getting an apartment only she wants to move back to where we previously lived. It is a bigger city with way more oppotunities not only for her but for me.

We will get ann apartment in a SECURITY building so WW or Baldo are not free to ENTER our space.

I will leave her with the house, sad to say I will keep paying the mortgage,(only to keep the equity we do have) the dogs-(they are so fun to get up with everyday at 5 am) and any bill that has her name to it.
Car payment,CC's,Cell phone bill, electricity-Her share of the car insurance-$900 in DETOX bills-Medical insurance does not cover it if a treatment program is not closely followed. Does that sound like a problem?????

I-WE (me and DD) have agreed to move to be closer also to gparents. Probably a very good thing. Ive drug her along to long back and forth with WW in and out-being WW-being a good Mother for a few weeks then being a drunk for some times 8-10 days straight-then detoxing again. One of these times the detox itself may kill her. They are not purrty at all. Not talking about a few drinks type of alky-20 + in a day is common and shes gotta have a cast iron liver.
She swears the doc says there is no liver damage. 5ft 10 in. and 120lbs. I don't know how her body takes it.

ENOUGH OF THAT CRAP

The way I figure it is the only way a sucsessful PLB can be run is to get in a secure building - she will not try anything if she knows other people will call the cops on her-more miles away than she cares to drive drunk- Insure DD is with me- Perform the PLB as best as possible.

Is it OK to talk to the DD16 about PLB purpose and ask or encourage her to participate but respect her decision either way? I don't want to encourage her not to have a relationship with WW but want her to know she can have a profound affect that will really make MOM think about their relationship. Also DD may also feel empowered by the whole PLB situation if she is sure WW will not appear uninvited.

WISH THEY HAD A CUTSEY LITTLE TOWEL THROWING GUY I COULD PASTE ON HERE.

I reallyt don't want to leave my home but I don't know how to get away from Baldo(he lives close by) and she cetainly wont respect any boundries. Talked to the police about service door she broke into and I can file a property damage "report". OOOH that will really pull some weight. Without threats or other acts of violence connected with it A spouse whos name is on the property may enter any way they wish to without any charges against them. As long as it is not directed at you personally they said there is little or nothing they can do.

Need to get outta here ASAP b-4 something happens. My IC suggested this over a month ago during last binge.

Will talk to lawyer about persuing CSupport.
With her having no income right now maybe she needs a lot to think about. I have supported all her treatments and bills associated with them=even loss of income-only to have this crap happen over abd over again. Maybe Baldo would like to carry her 4 a while. I'mn sick of it.

Now its time to make it happen.

Nesre

WW comes home at 12-30 banging on the door cause she doesn't have any keys. Has been drinking.
I say nothing -just go back to bed-she falls asleep in her spot next to the furnace vent on the floor.

This morning when I get up there is a No Contact letter written to Baldo on the table. I have brought it up several times over the past week and I get all show and no go. No real emotion when mentioning it. Kinda matter of fact that this needs to happen before I will continue on. I need to know Baldo is totally out of the picture. She has asked what she needs to do several times.

She gives it to me and all I can think is "GASLIGHTING" and I am struggling not to puke.

WOULD IT DO ANY GOOD TO MAIL IT-OTHER THAN ITS MAILED-IS IT WORTH THE POSTAGE?????

Guts say to continue on with the plan mentioned in my last post. Get an apartment and move with DD when WW is not around. DARK-DARK PLB.

WILL ANYONE take a stab at this???

Nesre

Besides NC, what other requirements do you have for her returning to the M? The letter isn't enough, is it?

If she commits to ALL of your requirements, recovery can begin.

Otherwise, Plan B is still a viable option.

Fred

(EDIT-Thanks for taking a crack at this. I really appreciate it. Ive been watching you on the boards and your an insperation.)

No the NC is not enough.

No alcohol and work a recovery program
No contact w/Baldo
Radical honesty
Total transperancy
POJA-Although I did not call these by there names I explained it
MC-shortly down the road
Trip outta here once amonth-me and her overnight
Once a week-simple date night

Had a long talk sunday about how (did not go into real specifics) THE A and fallout could be turned around. Tried to assure her all this could be changed.

Nesre

PEP

I wish I was.

No video camera. Ive taken photos, had some voice recordings but no video.

Time to start?

Nesre

Thank you for the kind words. There are undeserved, as there are some truly insprirational people here.
My honest opinion: Something has happened between Baldo and her. Not her choice!

So now she's really lost. She's drinking and has no fallback position, except to come to her "security blanket" -- YOU.

If possible, I'd snoop a little more to see if this might be the case. Something is not right in Affairville.

Her drinking is a major problem. I'm sure you've read here that marital recovery can't begin until addiction recovery has been established.

Are you going to Al-Anon? It may not help your marriage, but you might find it helpful. I've found some men's Al-Anon meetings very supportive.

Put together your Plan B, but make sure you have all of your ducks in a row before implementing. This could be a crucial time...

Nesre, I feel so bad for you. I may be wrong, but I thought Dr. Harley has said that you can't work the plans with an active alcoholic. It sounds like she is drinking herself to death.

I had a friend who was an attorney. He couldn't hold a job because of his drinking and then his wife divorced him. She couldn't take it anymore. He went home to live with his parents and then he died a few months later. He was only 40 something years old.

Nothing could get through to him. He would be remorseful the morning after but by time his head cleared enough he was pouring a drink for happy hour (sometimes at 10:00 in the morning!)

It's really sad to see situations like this but at this point your daughter needs you more than your WW does. Your daughter will recall these years and carry them over into her own relationships.

You need to get healthy starting with moving you and your daughter far away as possible-- even if it means giving up everything NOW for a better future LATER.

Your daughter may have a chance if she sees and knows that your relationship with WW is not normal, much less healthy.

(((Nesre)))

Fred

Fred

Om-from talking to his XW and LTGF is extremely selfish and controlling with money. Honesty ranks very low on his list too.

There is trouble in Aville. WW has described it as hate-party-do whatever kind of relationship. What is that ? I don't even understand it

I do go to AA and Al-Anon-See a IC-she worked 7 years under WHarley. The ALCOHOL does screw everything up.
During WW's last binge her suggestion was just get an apt. and move when she is in the binge. Let her come out of it with you and DD gone.

WW screwed that up staying in a motel? 2 days and then going to an apt-within eyesight of our home for a week-then to parents to sober up when she crashed. During that binge I gave her the PLB letter and was able to enforce NC wher for about 6 days. She came back to the home knowing full well what the PLB letter said. She agreed to these conditions but since has disapeared twice-JUST like old times and drank again.

Nesre

Pep

I am already looking into priices. That quote was for my protection against DV charges being fabricated on me. Wasn't sure if she would persue that route.

Will get a VCamera today.

Out for a while --Be back later

Thanks

Nesre

Let me give you a tip about plan B with an alcoholic.

Plan B has to be specific about AA or other alcohol treatment.
DAILY meetings for at least 3 months.

DAILY (it needs to be verified by the AA leader)

I've read this same thing on the forums here many times. Nesre is dealing with an out of control alcoholic. He can't Plan B her because she just breaks into the house and the law is on her side. I know that BS's are normally told to never leave the home but this is a different situation IMO. I think Nesre needs to remove himself and his DD from this extremely abusive situation even if that means moving out. His WW is never going to listen to him. The only reason she wrote the NC letter was to 'offset' her bad behavior last night when she disappeared once again to get loaded. She is handing crumbs to Nesre to keep him where he is at. She is cake eating and being extremely abusive in the process.

Personally, I don't believe that the MB plans will work on this particualar WS. She needs to hit rock bottom and get off the sauce before he can work the MB plans. The only chance of her hitting rock bottom is if Nesre removes the safety net and disappears. In essence, it will be a Plan B for him as well which can only do him some good right now.

Just my .02 cents...

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