I liked that what Fred quoted was love was "chemically" more of a drive.
I agree that most Affairs die within a couple years and I don't think the drive does whithin us, but the caring and bonding function becomes so messed up. The betrayers have all the chickens come home to roost when they realize that their is more to love than feeling "In LOve".
Like the statistics show, most relationships that are developed during an affair end because one or both of them have reasons not to trust the other or a lack of the character/tools/morals, (pick one), to do the work a marriage needs.
But still, the drive continues whithin us and we would have just been so much better off if we addressed that fact while in the marriage in the first place.

<<<<Hot Pants, a multiple adultress and marriage wrecker, and LLL's H, a lyer and a cheater.>>>>>

will get what they deserve just as Freds leopard will and LLL will walk away with her self-respect and the tools to have a good relationship now. like many on this site.

You are right atena affairs rarely make it to the stage where real work is involved.

I think Freds post pointed out that although we have a chemical/natural "love drive" the acts we perpetuate after the original "in-love" stage are what define if we are capable of loving someone even if we are not on a chemical high.

So as we learn as grown-ups, love is also an action based on a decision to care for someone even if we don't allways "feel" like it

By you being here LLL you are doing the hard work of love and it is so obvious to others like the rest of us.

The fact that we have a drive whithin us to love someone is probably why ppl can have another relationship after they are left by someone and their heart is so dashed to the ground. Many recovered vets here will tell you that the marriage they used to have was so different than it is now and they both changed dramatically. But yet thaey also say they are more in love than ever.
In either case we as people still have the desire to be connected to someone reguardless of how we change internally. To me thats a message of hope and explains so much about how people who have been devestated in love have eventually found it again.

Whats also true is those who have been hurt in relationships and sought counsel have a better chance to have love than before. KInda like the song by Nazareth,"love hurts", and the poets line,"Its better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all".

In reading about human mental health it seems we are the most healthy when we are social. We are social animals and its built into us. Its just plain sad that some of us like LLL H and Hot Pants get to hurt others as they break down the fiber of society by being children. We now know what to be careful of and we also can look ourselves in the mirror and know we did our best at the time.

John 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

That is the work of love and we can be proud of the fact that while we were being hurt by someone we took the time to suffer for them to bring them to light.

I spoke with attorney yesterday afternoon and I'm meeting with him this afternoon to draw up a certified letter having all contact between H and I go through the attorney in the future, including request that he give prior notice if he wants access to our home I live in. Technically, I can't lock him out, but I don't see it as a big issue since his only time in the house in over a week he called and knocked. Also, have changed alarm code so he'll set off police coming to house if he tries to enter.

I'm sitting here this morning sipping coffee and basically not believing how my life has changed in the last 5 weeks. I've lost my mother, my H, who I thought was my rock, is gone. There's another guy living in his brain who doesn't resemble the man I married and lived with happily for 29 years.

I have heard nothing from H, which means if he's heard anything about the exposures I did, he's not giving me the satisfaction of telling me it has any effect on him. I'd love to know what OW is feeling about all of this, as I have let people know she is the other party in this soap opera. I'm sure she doesn't like that, as the emails I intercepted indicated she wanted to not be seen as the reason for our marriage failing and is interested in being on his arm at university functions and being accepted.

One interesting side note. I am still getting eblaster reports from H's home laptop. Only thing is, its strictly business on the reports I'm getting or general web surfing reports. Of course, since I'm sure he's still staying with Hot Pants, why would he need to email her from her apartment?

My sister and I have discussed this whole mess over and over, and I have come to the conclusion that filing is the thing to do, and getting this over with. If H ever wakes up and wants to approach me, we'll see if I'm interested. But I don't want to haggle, fight, and work on this marriage when he seems so done.

There is a thread on this forum which questions whether or not a spell has been put on WH. Of course I find that ludicrous but I have to admit that it sure seem as if my H is the victim of some incantation.
What would the rational explanation be for their behavior? Hormones out of whack? The strong feeling of love for OW? (but I was not mean or cold to people when I was in love!).
Your H is acting cold and distant just like mine. It has been 5 months for me now and H has not changes towards me and has not attempted any contact. I am still in a state of shock for how he conducted himself during the A and the coldness he has had towards me for no reason at all.
Are you asking for a D for practical reasons or because it give you a personal sense of closure?
Stay strong, we are better off without them. But surely this is too much of a shock and hard to understand.
blessing

I think the coldness and meanessa re very commn with cheaters when dealing with their BSs. My dad had just died whenb I discovered my first WW's cheating. She raged at me because I had forgotton to take out the garbage in my grief,
She did not attend his funeral. She set up a weekend jaunt to Chicago with yet another OM within weeks of my dad dying.

These are some cold blooded folks, not at all normal. One wonders if they were always like this and simply masked it or if it stems from the cheating.
In LLL's case, despite the prior 29 years being okay, I think there is a strong chance that this is not her H's first foray into extramarital sex.
And, LLL, I would lose the nickname for this woman, "Hot Pants". I know it is meant to be less than complimentary. But,, really, associat9ing a lying, serial cheating, parasitic woman with being "hot" is inaccurate.
Maybe you could call her "STD Incubator Pants" or " The Receptacle" or something like that. She is anything but "Hot".

lll-

I have been lurking and I just wanted to tell you I am sorry for your pain. I am sorry you are here. However, I had to post in response to Zelmo's post. I am not attempting to debate anything with this poster only express my POV...

I have read NOTHING from your post eluding to suspicions of your WH having other A. Now I must be honest I have not read all 61 pages- but many of them...

IMHO, I think a marriage can be really great for many years- then something happens within the marriage- people grow apart and an A takes place... the A takes place because the WS choose this instead of half a dozen other options...

And Zelmo- yes there are people who are also serial cheaters... there is a difference...

HavingFaith

PS For what it is worth... I kinda liked the Hot Pants name

I agree, it could be his first foray. But, once you uncover some cheating, it bears looking into the past. I say this because studies have shown that the vast majority of affairs go undetected. So, if you have uncovered one, there is a decent chance there were others, before.

I think, in light of the changes LLL noticed in her H and his severe reaction to this A, it is safe to assume that this is his first time cheating. If he were a serial cheater, there probably wouldn't have been such a drastic and noticeable change in his behavior during this particular A. Of course, there's no 100% guarantee, but her H doesn't seem to be reacting to this A in the way that a typical serial cheater would.

I thought of that , writer. But, perhaps the others were more casual. I have no way of knowing, and, if he is like many cheaters, he will never reveal. This is why I feel that a preconditon for reconciliation should always include a polygraph.
My first wife, to this day, contends that she "only" had two EAs and things never got phsyical. She is very convincing.
She does not realize that I accessed her journal where she proclaimed " I want to stop my self destructive behaviors: drinking, smoking, sex with strangers".
If her H is anything like the XWW, he may have been able to hide the old A's better as he was not as invested in his other OWs.

I don't trust polygraphs. I've heard they aren't terribly reliable. But that's just me.

I'm not sure about them, either. But, the cheater's response to being asked to take one is often very telling.

If I were accused of something I had not done ... and was accused of lying about it ...

"I demand a polygraph to prove I am not lying."

Added: This is my way of saying Zel is correct (just this one time, though)

I cannot concentrate today here at work. Thankfully, I have very few face to face appointments and was planning on digging into the stack of paperwork weighing down my desk. But my mind is wandering.

I don't know if H was ever in another affair, but I know he never treated me like this before. In 29 years, we went through some waxing and waning in our relationship, but who doesn't? You can't maintain new relationship intensity forever. However, we were always warm, kind and solicitous of one another. It was a warm, loving, comfortable relationship even in recent years. We worked hard during his regular academic schedule at the university and then used the long breaks to travel, relax and enjoy ourselves. We looked forward to long trips, sometimes 3 to 4 weeks in length. On these trips we were together 24-7 and had a great times. When home, we enjoyed planning these trips together and looking though travel guides. If he were in affairs, would he want to leave with me for so long several times a year? I think probably not....

I am going to divorce him because I don't want to "wait" for him when he's turned into such a cold [censored]. I have too much pride to wait around for someone who is treating me like I am an enemy and a stranger. He changed. He can deal with the fallout. I refuse to let him spoil my life by having me put my life on hold so he can continue using me as the person keeping him from what he wants (OW). As long as I am their joint roadblock to what it is they seem to want, the relationship seems to me it would be solidified by having a common enemy (me).

Then I think back to last Valentine's day....he sent two dozen roses to my office and we spent a quiet night a home with a good bottle of wine......

I suspect this is but one of many times you will be saying this, down the road, Pep. Who said oldsters cannot be taught?

I suspect you may feel this for some time to come. The shock of betrayal turns our lives upside down. After all these are people we have trusted, and relied on, and now it feels like they have taken us out with the trash. My marriage was 32 years. We had our ups and downs and I thought we were working things through. Apparently my wife had mentally left years prior and was just waiting for the last kid to leave home. I am still in disbelief that it has happened.

You are fortunate you have your career to focus on as that will help. The difficult times will be when you are home alone and have time to think or remember. And being in the house there will be triggers to memories.

It sounds like you are still interested in seeing if you can recover your marriage if it is possible. Is there some reason you want to divorce immediately? Can you secure your finances without divorce? Moving to divorce should be your decision, that you are done because of the adultery. This statement says to me you are reacting, and your decision might depend on his response to you. I have read here that it may take 2 - 5 years for wayward spouse to come out of the fog or to wake up and see the reality of the adultery. Are you willing to wait that long?


Try to keep busy and find people who can support you. Five weeks is not very long.

Good luck on your journey. It will take time to heal.

Blessings
BCBoy

I also support your decision, LLL. I believe that you have been calm and thoughtful and have acted admirably in the past weeks. I don't think that I could keep myself from sending the D papers and a card remembering how you spent Valentine's day last year and that you will always miss that man. Have them sent on the same day right before V day. Just me. (-:

God's Blessings,

Say

LLL, you've been the epitome of cool-headedness. I think it has served you well. Well done.

Find out if the OW has facebook. If she does then expose all of her friends.

What is the university doing about the affair. Your lawyer had you expose at the bottom of the school's food chain.

As I said and this proves it.

The exposure should of been the college pres, then CC'lng the Board of Directors and Head of HR.

Then pass the word through the student body to stir the pot. WH gives A's for lay's.

3L:

Sorry about having to experience real life with an Alien.

This paragraph tells you what you should do next:



Split the assets 60/40 and go for a legal seperation. Overreach. Ask for more than you are entitled too. Sure, the attorneys will have to sort it all out, and it might cost you a little more, but the amusement factor might be high. (more on this and why in a bit)

He WANTS you to go quietly. What he doesn't understand is that YOU hold all the cards.

Have him served with the Divorce papers in his classroom.
Have the OW served with a subpoena at the same time to show up for a disposition. Helps if you can have them served while in the same classroom.....

Is this being vindictive? Sure. And especially from his point of view. So, that increases the amusement factor.

About asking for MORE? Then he sits in front of OW and says things like: "I can't believe that 3L wants that asset! I can't give that up!" OW thinks... "wow, that thing is worth more to him than I am....!!" You see? When he complains about having to give you something, she agrees with him becasue she wants it all, but all his complaining, about what he is losing? Means that he is giving that up for HER. "quite the thorn in happy valley....."

Your a smart, practical woman. Why would you want to spend more money to annoy them? It may not be much more money. He gets to pay his own attorney, and if he wants to go quietly, he will agree to a number of things, to make that happen. And on your side, one extra motion, or one extra court date may only cost you $500 to a grand. The Divoce costs are going to be at least $15k, if not more.

And the one thing is, he IS going to get ugly fast. So, by firing the shot over the bow, you get to have some laughs, and the WH squirms.

Or, do what you have been doing. Quietly consulting with your attorney, and deciding what to do. Nothing wrong with minimizing your costs, and your agony. Dump this guy like a stuck accelerator Toyota....

But there are some things that you should do. Subpeonas are interesting things. that "personal matter" you brought to the Dean? Well, I'm sure that you could subpeona the Uni for various information about the lovebirds activity, and the action. Sure, its a "personnel action" but there is very little that is shielded from the court. And the UNI will be the one filing motions to quash, or as a minumum, WH attorney on behalf of the Uni. Further embarassment to all involved.

You can play hardball upfront, and maybe get a better deal. And there is some "dose of reality" that is sent when you play hardball. Then you just let the process run its course. Most states have a six months mandatory cooling off period, and that clock starts the day of move out, or filing depending on the state. I'm not a attorney, I don't even play one on TV.

But your attorney works for you. Explore some things, and do it quietly, because its just easier that way, and thats understandable, or have some fun.

Either way, you had a moment with the alien. This was not the Husband that you were married to for 28 years. This is someone who has taken over the body of your husband in the past year.

But this is rather sad:

28 years of marriage and that is all he has to take? Sad.

Let us know what going on.

LG

LG the comedian......

I guess tossin' that out there on my thread would've just been hittin' too close to home.......

TB
Proud 2010 Camry Owner
"There's nothing like doing 80 in a 30 zone!!"