Pat,


Of course its BIZARRE.......all of this would be very bizarre to a normal, well-functioning person, which your WW is NOT. Of course, to rest of us here, well, no so much.....


I know this is all very painful to you, but I truly had to laugh when I read this....WHY???...because it is straight out of the "Wayward's Guide to a Friendly Divorce" handbook. Yep, count me in as another BS who heard these EXACT SAME WORDS!!!!! (I would be so refreshing if a wayward could actually spew something original, but, alas, in their fog-induced mushy brain it just isn't possible....)



Yep, heard that one as well......


yep....WW loves eatting all that yummy cake....sounds like she even wants some extra frosting on that......

As far as you two sleeping in separate bedrooms not affecting the kids, she is SOOOOOO blindly wrong. The kids are taking in every little thing that is going on. You can bet your bottom dollar this is affecting them.....(((((Pat's kiddies))))....how ARE they handling this BTW???


This would be fogline #5. Man, you really got a handfull yesterday. Is it still hard to see in the house this morning???....oh, and yep, heard this one....to which the proper reply is "we can get that back"


I love how she is giving YOU dating advice. Sorta like they NEED you to stoop to their level, which of course is needed to help them feel better about what they are doing......while you should (and did) take note on what she said about your family, she is again, blameshifting......


Yep, needs to get rid of that pesky guilt. It doesn't sit well in "Affairland".......and well, she is right. This ISN'T right to do this to anyone, but its a little late for that....


How do you know this?? Have you talked to the friend? Until you do, do not assume anything. Also, I would email this friend again, telling her how much you love your wife and want to do everything you can to keep your family intact. That this would be the optimal solution for your children.....


As you can see from your responses, yes. My H said nearly the same things (more than once, so don't be surprised when you hear it again....), to which I replied that I will not talk divorce, my lawyer will handle that. That we would never be friends because I needed a husband not a friend. That is proposal was NOT an option for me......all stated as matter of fact, no emotion, no negotiating.

And then I would follow up with, if you want to return and repair this marriage, then you need to write OW a NC letter, give me access to his phone bills, email and financial accounts. I would use these discussions to start laying down the requirements I NEEDED in order to start Recovery. Again, this was stated unemotionally, matter of fact. You need to appear as the sane person.....even if your world is turning upside down....

Yep Pat, your WW is your garden variety CAKE-EATER.....seen it a million times.....

Hang in there you seem to be handling this wonderfully.....

not2fun

Pat,

This is a standard fantasy.

Your response to this is simple:

"If we divorce, we will not be friends. I will not want to have anything to do with you and what you're proposing is a demented fantasy that isn't possible. I will work on our marriage and save it. It's that or divorce, which means we won't be friends."

My ex had the same dumb fantasy. Kill it. It's not reality.

She was not home today, she and my daughter went to a friends for the night, so no drama. A girl friend of mine from Cincinnati called my cell this morning and I filled her in (somewhat) on what was happening. I told her we were having problems and may be divorcing. When I got home my wife said she had called. She asked if I talked to her and I said yes. She asked if I told her about us? I said yes, I told her we were having problems and there was a good chance we were getting divorced. She looked at me and asked why I had told her that when no decission had been made. Okay, last night you told me in no uncertain terms that it was over and made that insane proposal. (I didn't say that, I just gave her a crazy look). Then she asked me to put lotion on her back....closet I get to congical. I was amazed she let me touch her, I feel so privleged. Ya, that proposal was made about 10 minutes before I went to bed last night and it took me about 2 sec. to realize what and insane idea that is.

Hi Pat,

Are you enjoying the comedy yet?

Seriously, I don't have much to offer to the excellent advice, but just thought you might want to soften up your response beyond "not only NO!, but he** NO!. You will never be friends with you at best you will be civil with her around the kids. Is that soft enough?

Seriously, you clearly see she wants her baby sitter, she wants her cook, her house cleaner, Oh! and general handyman, but she really doesn't want to associate with the "hired help."

That would be you, in case you were confused.

Hang in there it will get nuttier.

JL

Ya, I know. This plan A is a little confusing, or maybe I'm just daft. In my case she is back in contact with OM. Now what are the options here. Continue with plan A while she has a relation, or go to plan B and ask her to leave. Seems like they say continue plan A...yuk! And what (she already said no) if she wont leave. Do you enact plan B while living together.

What are you confused about??..For being confused, you are doing an awfully great job....



I would continue to Plan A....which, what EN'S are you meeting?....Don't forget the carrot of Plan A. It goes hand in hand with the stick. What is your time line for continueing it??...are you going to do for one more week??...a month???...two months???...

The other thing you need to be doing is spelling out a PLAN for Recovery. Giving her a way back to the marriage. Which includes, ending the affair, sending the NO CONTACT letter, giving all passwords to email accounts, cell phone bills, and most definately some counseling, preferably with the Harley's.

IMO, you need to start putting these out there for her.....

not2fun

Pat,

Plan A has a finite lifetime. For men it can be up to 6 months. But the real evaluation points should be every month or so. What are you looking for? You are checking to see if your Love Bank is getting empty. If it empties your marriage will end because you won't have enough in the tank to endure recovery. And recovery is NOT FOR WIMPS.

I would say do plan A for a month and then evaluate yourself, your energy, and her behavior. Are you seeing little baby steps? If so, keep going. If not and your tank is very very low then it might be time for plan B.

Harley states that most men go to plan B too late. Don't make that mistake.

Also plan A often does not end the affair, but what it does do is plant seeds. And these seeds can grow and become the desire for her to come back. So keep planting seeds, set up a time for reevaluation, don't tell her your time table on any of this.

Just hang in there. This is tough but you won't regret it no matter how it works out. You will be able to look at your children and tell them that you did ALL you could do to preserve their family for them.

God Bless,

JL

I would say my time line is about 1 month. Now what about if we are still having to live together? How is Plan B possible. I have told her/done all those things. I have told her what it could be like, how/what I will do and what she needs to do. Of course she said I don't know why your telling me this because we are done. Yet she will not file.

What en's. Well, I have tryed to show her how things could be. I have been attentive, going out of my way to be nice. We have accually talked a whole lot more than we have in years. I have shown her support and I have shown her that I am willing to forgive and that I really want this to work. This is the confusing part to her because she keeps saying "how can you forgive me? How is there any coming back from this?" I still have feelings for another man.

I think not filing is in one of the chapters of the Wayward's Handbook for Clouded Thinking�. By forcing the BS to file, the WS gets "justification" for their unjustifiable behavior. It's sort of the "killing blow" to their destruction of the M.

They can then go about the world telling everyone that their BS divorced them and that somehow turns them from predator to victim.

Pat,

Have you read "Surviving an Affair"? Or any of Dr. Harley's books?

From what you wrote it doesn't sound like you are sure what her EN'S are......Here's a link to the Emotional Needs section

www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Read up and tell us what you think her top 3 emotional needs are. To do this think back to what things you did in the past that made her happy, think of conversations where she may have told you things that you don't do for her......

You are doing wonderfully well in all of this. It helps when you have a PLAN, doesn't it???

not2fun

Not2Fun: I understand what en's are, but right now she is not receptive to them, so I am trying to do what I can to show her what life CAN be like. I have shown her that I want to meet those needs of love and admiration and sexual gratification, but unfortunatly, someone else is in the way. So, all I can do is lay the ground work, show her I am serious and continue to work at it. Really, the ball is in her court right now. She is vacillating back and forth about divorce and when I put the burden on her, she dosen't like it. Her reaction yesterday when I told a friend of mine that we may be getting a divorce was perplexing. The night before we are totally done and the next morning she says "why are you telling people that when nothing has been decided". We are totally done, I want a divorce and there is no chance for recovery are not ambiguious comments. Yet she cannot let go of this guy. I know it's going to take a great deal of time and energy on my part to get through that, but rehashing the same old stuff does no good. I have laid it out for her. I told her the options are reconsiliation (or attempt) and told her my plans and what I need, to which she says no-way...okay. Two: She can move out...no to that. Or she can file and have a non amicable ugly divorce...no to that. She has not seen him, I'm 99% sure of that, but they still text/talk. I have exposed, called him, done all I can to break this up. I am not going to turn into some crazy stalker and gps her or anything. She knows if she stays with himand our marriage ends, she will lose the support of family and friends. That she will be viewed as the villan and I the victim. So what else is there to do but wait.

Yes, surviving an affair.

Plan A.
It's not waiting.
It's demonstrating the best "you" possible, without expectations.
Plan A.
It's not about WW, it's all about you.
Plan A.
It is you growing and learning.

If WW wants to remain married to such an awesome Plan-A'er ... she's got to step up her game.

If she does not ... Plan B.
Which is also all about you.

Plan A is not waiting.

So, what are HER top 3 EN's??......I ask because we can help you step up your game in this. I loved the invaluable information and suggestions I got from everyone here that helped me to step up my "A game".....

I sense some frusteration in you post to me. I wasn't try to do that, I only asked the questions because I was unsure of the answers. I remember being aggravated at times by having to remind people of my situation, but I now realize that its only because sometimes its hard to keep every person you post to straight......

And for what its worth, I do think you are doing a marvelous job thus far.......

not2fun

Not2fun: No frustration at all...I very much appreciate the advise. I would say her top three are admiration, affection and either conversation or sexual fulfilment. Admiration, affection and conversation are the things I can and am providing. Sex is out of the question. Honestly she is a very sexual person, so if he is there meeting that, it goes a long way (I know, gross). She'll be home this afternoon, so we'll see what she is feeling. One other small ray of sunshine. Friends of ours are having a Super Bowl party, so I told her I was going. She asked if she was invited and I said of course, but I didn't think you would want to go. To my surprise she said she did. Baby steps... We'll see how she feels next week.

Tonight was ugly. The day was fine, all good. Then the divorce talk starts. I said I don't want to do this everyday. My position has not changed and I don't want to talk about it. She then asks about that immoral proposal to which I said absolutly not. Then she says it has nothing to do with OM, that she has been unhappy for years. I said I cannot stop you but it's not what I want. Then she said you're going to fight me in court aren't you. I said if it comes to that I will. Of course this all came about because her "friends" told her that she needs to be happy. That if he makes her happy she should go. They said my exposure and being nice is my way of manipulating things. I said, they shouldn't judge until they have walked in my shoes. Wonder if they would say that if it happened to them. I don't know guys, this seemed really final tonight. I finally said I don't want to talk about this...never yelling and went for a walk. I came back and she said I'm filing, I cannot stand this anymore. Can I be anymore clear, I don't love you and want out. I really don't know what I am fighting for anymore.

All waywards do this.

She cannot stand the fact that you are not the demon she needs you to be for her to justify what she's been doing.