She's just waying the pros and cons of staying married now. She was trying to manipulate you into getting what she wanted, an easy divorce with the terms that she wants. She realizes now that isn't going to be an option. She's ticked because she can't get what she wants. Now she realizes it is either stay and work on the marriage or get screwed in a divorce. It's good that she now has to start thinking about consequences.

She still hasn't figured out whether or not she's going to file, she just said that tonight to hurt you because she's made at you. Keep hanging in there. She's wanting you to flip so she can justify moving on. If you keep up plan A just a little longer, you may start to see some positive developments.

YOU ARE FIGHTING FOR YOUR MARRIAGE

Clear enough? One temper tantrum of a foggy wayward shouldn't discourage that. It is hard to listen to all of this "It's over. We are done." talk and not say, "WHAT AM I DOING?" especially with the fact that many people in your regular life are probably telling you to give up. That's why we are here. We are here to remind you that it IS possible. Follow the steps and you MAY have a chance to save your M and that is why you are doing all of this. This is what you want for yourself. Plan A is really hard on you emotionally which is why it temporary. Plan B is harder in some ways but emotionally it is different. The rollercoaster isn't as up and down.

Keep it up you are doing great.

I hear ya. I just wish her so called friends would stay out! I know they are her friends and all, but to say "do what makes you happy" is such BS! What if we all did what makes us happy at the moment, it would be anarchy. We are all responsible for our actions and that part of the equation seems to be lost on these people. I REALLY hope the people giving her advise have to deal with this themselves someday.

One, WW is trying to manipulate you into giving up.

You want to save your marriage then don't give up. I think you should not quit fighting. If WW wanted out she would of filed. She has not. She is all talk. Use this time wisely.

Stop answering any remark about divorce.

WW says I want a divorce

BH say whats for dinner, want to go for a ride, lets watch a dvd.

BH never says I don't want a divorce. See you just had a divorce conversation.

WW says Brings up I want an open marriage again.

BH says I'm going to the park want to come. I'm going to the store you need anything.

BH never responds to this subject because BH has already addressed this subject and there is no need to restate his position.

BH must cut his WW off at the pass.

One thing I learned in my process is that is very easy for "friends" to give advice when you have nothing invested in the realationship. My exWW confided in the friends that told her to do what makes you happy, follow your heart, etc. She went ballistic on family members who told her to really think about what she was doing.

You see, the family members had an investment. If exWW crashed hard, they would be the ones who would have to help pick up the pieces. THey are the ones who have a permanent relationship with exWW and the kids. Thus, they gave advice such as work on the marriage, dump the OM, etc. Her friends, did not have the long term invenstment.

Pat, your wife's behavior reminds me very much of my XWW's. She had the "friends", a bunch of lowlifes, urging her to go after the OM. I was demonized to them, I am sure.
And, my XWW was forcing my hand, basically telling me that if I did not file , she would.
I remember after I had the papers drawn up, I was hesitating on serving her. I aksed he one last time "Are you sure you do not want to try to get past this and go to counseling?"
She refused and told me to serve her or she would serve me. So, I did and we are divorced.
Her life is now a mess. The OM lasted about a year, then they were at each other's throats.
She once, in passing, told me "maybe I should have gone to counseling". Too late, however. I had moved on and she had done way too much damage.
At some point, one has to decide when one has had enough of the abuse. You are, apparently, not at that point, yet.
Sounds like you are doing a good job keeping your cool in the face of blatant disrespect. This will serve you well, regardless of whether you divorce or remain married. You will be able to look at yourself in the mirror and know you acted honorably.
Your wife's "friends" are truly idiots who think they know the whole story.

Pat - use loving detachment - borrowed this term bc it is a way to stay in sane (I should say keep your sanity) during the crazy times.

while detaching I also think you can continue to re-expose to WW family as well if there is continued contact

Are they going to meet up this week in another city? what are her travel plans? Her next trip?

Here is an idea borrowed from another post:

Send her a text message if you know they are to meet up, at precisely the time they are to meet.

"I hope this is all worth it to you. Really, enjoy. We will have a lot to talk about when you get back."

Might get the OM to do another angry outburst - I see it as his weakness and if it requires it - exploit it. Anything to make the A uncomfortable place to be in while keeping the M and home a better place.

She already knows the home is better place bc of the open marriage proposal - she doesnt want to leave the security of someone taking care of home and kids.

Just some random thoughts

1. You need to start agrivating OM again ASAP!

2. Have YOU personally spoken directly to her "Freinds" and heard this? If not, she is lying to you about what her "Freinds" say.

"180 is a list of behaviors from Michelle Wiener Davis, the author of Divorce Busting, that will help your spouse to see you moving forward as a healthy person. I would highly suggest that any new BS begin these behaviors as soon as possible. I am convinced that if I had implemented them, I would still be married. In retrospect, I did everything besides 180. I looked pathetic. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive. (Making it)

So here's the list:

Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
No frequent phone calls.
Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
Don't follow her/him around the house.
Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
Don't ask for reassurances.
Don't buy or give gifts.
Don't schedule dates together.
Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
Don't be overly enthusiastic.
Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

Pat,

Where are you getting this information??...WW???.....If so, let me repeat....DO NOT LISTEN TO YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!!!! She is an ADDICT, who will say and do ANYTHING to get her fix. Including dragging others through the mud, never mind their reputations.

Unless, you have tangable proof of this (ie...them point-blank telling you, emails to you or her, letters, VM....), then do not buy into this load of garbage.

MOST, yes there are exceptions, good, moral people do not say such drivel. If they do, usually they do not have the whole story and do not have an idea of an AP.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, my H said the same things. "So and so thinks this is okay."...."So and so said you were such a bad wife, they don't blame me for doing this..."....yeah, well, when it was all said and done and I confronted "So and so", turns out it wasn't true. And I had emails to H contradicting his very statements.

H lost some good friends by him having their integrity called into question......

She's only telling you what she thinks will be the final straw to break you......fortunately you have us, the "BTDT crew".....

not2fun

not2fun

I know you're right about what she says, I'll try and remember that. Yesterday I was on the phone with an old friend and she asked who I was talking to so I told her. She says (again) did you tell him about us. I said yes. What did you say? I said we were having problems and you wanted a divorce. Then I get why would you tell him that when nothing has been decided. Well Sibil, it sounded pretty clear to me, but I wont say that anymore. Obviously I didn't say Sibil, but it would be an appropriate comparison. No drama yesterday other than that. Had another offer, not enough$$ so I am still looking. I will feel a lot more secure when I have a full time job.

Well, very very ugly day. She somehow got into my e-mail and saw that I had asked people for affidavids about who was the more responsible parent. She saw the e-mail I sent to her friend. LOST it. I recorded it all and it's pretty bad. I have NO idea what she is going to do. She was babling about how a couple days ago she broke it off completly, that the she was all set to end everything and now she finds I have been sneaking around behind her back. I tried to explain that I didn't know what she was going to do. That I was only cover my butt ib case she left. She said you F'ed up good this time. Everytime I begin to feel something for you, you screw it up. You are your own worst enemy. So on and so on. Lots of other talk, but you get the gist. One e-mail she found, I guess I called her a [censored] to someone. Even though she was acting like one, I had to her about that. When will the drama end.....

The rantings of an idiot. Ignore her garbage.

Pat,

Have you ever considered calmly looking her in the eye and saying: "I want you to listen to me for once in your life. You messed up big time, you broke the vows you made to me, you made to yourself, and you made to our families, not to mention God. All that has happened is a consequence of your choices and actions. If you don't like the consequences stop the behavior. I am standing her because I believe in forgiveness and our marriage. I will not stand here much longer being blamed for decisions I had no part in and no say in."

And then calmly walk off. She is a petulant child and she is still wayward and fog bound. She is not unusual really, but her sense of entitlement is rather large when compared to many WS's.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

I have to disagree with this JL........she is not any different than any other selfish and entitled wayward. It it the very essence of waywardness. His wife has not said or done anything any other wayward has. She sounds just like my H did, whom Mimi said sounded like her H, whom Mortarman said sounded like his wife.

Just a garden variety wayward......no more, no less.....

Pat, I love the statement JL gave you. Remember your mantra "I doing everything necessary to save our marriage and protect our family....."

not2fun

ps.....IF I have a dollar for every time my H had told me *I* f'ed up and he was done, I could have funded the divorce on that alone, HAD it come to that......

And this too shall pass my friend

Z,

are you going soft on us????......

where's the armchair pysch analysis......

just messin with ya.....

Not2fun

Excellant response, JL. Use it, Patriot. You owe her no apologies or explanation. SHE did this.

God's Blessings,

Say

Okay, she is an idiotic, most likely disordered woman. I say NPD or BPD, like everyone that cheats(just meesin back).
As for going "soft", there is Viagra.

Ya, the part that really pissed her off is that I talked with my sister. They do not like each other, so it sent her over the edge. Now if I had listened to my sister, we would be a month into the divorce. She was ranting about me trying to take her kids and I was so sneeky and decietful....I said two days ago you sat there and told me I was keeping you hostage and you hated me and wanted me out of your life. Now, your worried that I talked to my sister, or your parents or whatever about this. Funny thing is before all this happened I received an e-mail from her with a wedding picture attached this morning. I looked in our office after she left and they were up on the screen. Well, this seems to have come to a head. I can't imagine this continuing much longer. Just received a text that says me want you or love you more you are mistaken. Not sure what that means, but I'm sure she will explain when she gets home.