I will go and read the link. I'm not sure I read the do's and don'ts of Plan A but I will see if I can find them in the notable posts link you gave me. I'm surprising myself at how much control I have had with preventing AOs and such. I'm glad that I am now talking to WH in a calm manner without yelling.

Here's what he wrote:

I will avoid any type of contact, directly or indirectly.
I will not initiate contact in any way including all forms of communication.
If I am contacted in any way including telephone, email, fax or any way of communication, I will let you know immediately.
If paths are crossed at church I will not converse or chit chat in any way and separate myself from the area immediately.
This includes all forms of communication and all scenarios.

H and I talked last night. He admitted to being at OW house on more than one occasion. He says this was all 2 years ago. Other than giving her a hug goodbye he says he did not have any physical contact with her. The poly is scheduled for today.

When we talk to Steve I will go over what H wrote as his NC plan. I did suggest that he has a plan of what he is going to do at the moments when he feels like he wants to call OW. We also will get Steve's input as to whether it matters if we send the NC letter snail mail or email since H and I can't come to an agreement on that.

When we were talking last night H said that sometimes when he gets quiet it's because he's struggling with the fact that it feels weird to be talking to me. He said that even though he's suppposed to be talking to me it feels weird because for the past 2 yrs. he's been conversing with her. So because of all that he's struggling with the fact that it doesn't feel natural to be talking to me even thought I'm the woman he should be talking to. Does that make sense?

It's all part of withdrawal RW. OW is a drug that he is giving up. He is going to crave her for a while still. Keep up the stong Plan A and make it so that you are the one that he WANTS to talk to.

Good luck with the poly today and let us know how it goes.

Mindshare

The poly showed that he was truthful about it not being a PA. I'm glad that I finally know the truth about that part. WH and I had a talk last week and he said that I now know everything that went on with him and OW. He's been willing to answer my questions about the A so hopefully that is a good sign.

OW appeared at church yesterday. I'm now going to have to find out if she's moving back to our town. Should I try and find out this info on my own or just ask WH if he knows about it? I'm not clear on how much I should bring up OW since now my focus is on what I can do to help recover our M. I do feel comfortable asking WH about the A when questions come to mind but, I don't want to make it like I dwell on thinking about OW.

We won't be able to have an appointment with Steve for another week due to funds. The poly was expensive but it was worth having the peice of mind.

I'm keeping up with Plan A and trying to find ways/ideas to snoop on his work activity. He moved out of an office to a cube so I'm hoping that will cut down on the lengthy conversations between WH and OW during work hours. H says that he has not had contact with OW since 1/14/10.

Glad the poly went as it did.

The church thing is bothersome. Was your H also there yesterday? You do realize that you & your husband can't be there if it's the case that she's going to be there on a repeated basis, right? (My wife & I just went through a stir last month where OW showed up at our church for a couple of consecutive weeks, and we ended up needing to get our pastor involved to put a stop to it.)

More fundamentally: You say your H been willing to answer my questions about the A. Does he in fact acknowledge his emotional affair as an affair? I recall he seemed to be stuck on that. If he doesn't acknowledge this, then being in a cubicle (as opposed to an office) is scant protection from contact.

He's back to now admitting that yes it was an EA. Is this flip flopping normal?

I understand that moving to the cube won't necessarily prevent contact. I'm just hoping that with others in ear shot he won't have hour long conversations with OW as opposed to actually doing his work like he has been doing in the past. Hopefully I can find a way to snoop on what's actually going on at work so that I can have more assurance that NC is being withheld.

This was the first time to my knowledge that OW has been back to our church since she moved a couple months ago so I'm not sure if this is going to be a weekly thing or not. H was with me yesterday. We haven't talked about it because I didn't want to seem like I'm dwelling on OW and I'm not sure how to approach the subject.

Today I have been bothered by two things that H has said. Over the weekend he said that he wants to make things right but he doesn't want to do the work required to gain my trust back. When I asked about it he said that he's willing to put in the work but knows it will be a lot. This didnt make sense to me. Is this typical fog babble? Is this indicative that he's having contact with OW?

I plan to find out wheher she has moved back to our town or not. So I know whether we need to immmediately find another church or not.

The second thing WH said that confused me js that he didn't trust me. Thus made no sense to me. If anyone knows whether this is just fog babble or something I need to really pay attention to then please let me know.

I feel like WH is going to wait for things to blow over then we retun to status quo. Which wasn't great. I'm not sure if there's something I can do that would influence him to want to strive for a great marriage rather than a mediocre one.

Hi, RedsWife,

Yeah, your WH sounds very foggy still.

When you had your poly, did the examiner ask if he was still in contact?

No, the 3 questions all pertained to whether or not H did anything physical with OW.

I just found out that there's a way for H to access his work email at home. I will ask him for his password.

Typical fog babble. Waywards frequently feel distrustful of their spouses for several reasons: They know they themselves are not trustworthy, and they are "a good person" so how can anyone else really be trustworthy? They know they have behaved in a reprehensible way and they think if the roles were reversed they would be seeking out someone else, so they suspect the BS may be seeking out others. Another reason is gaslighting - just crazymaking stuff to make you doubt your own sanity and reality. Ignore him.


You are right, "status quo" is not good enough. That's what got you into this mess. He has terrible boundaries and he will need to learn to fix them -- but that's for him to do, not you, and that's also for later, not now.

I think the main thing you can do is enhance your Plan A. From what you've posted here (I just read your thread beginning to end) you seem to have angry outbursts under control - better, if not completely. You could probably work on selfish demands some, and I guarantee you need to work on disrespectful judgments. I see a lot of them in what you post.

Also, I don't see much of how you're meeting his ENs. If you're not posting about them, then you're not dwelling on them. You need to be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Think of it this way. Your husband is wayward in mindset if not in action right now. He is examining everything under a microscope and trying to justify his poor behavior. If RW hadn't been so angry or bossy or naggy or if she was a better listener or more fun to be around THEN he wouldn't have been "forced" to find friendship elsewhere.

Plan A is critical right now. Don't give him ammunition! Don't feed his desperate need to justify his poor behavior to himself. Be a shining beacon of wifely wonderfulness.

I think you talk way too much with him about relationship stuff and affair stuff. There is a time for that. Right now is the time to win him back. Later is the time to dissect the marriage and fix the foundation. Not now. Right now you need to be fun, attractive, and desirable. Right now you need to win his commitment to the marriage (without TALKING about it). Later, AFTER he's committed, is the time for talking about things. If you try to talk about the relationship right now all he'll see is that the marriage is no fun, a killjoy, and not something he's 100% interested in bothering with.

Review your Plan A. You're doing very well - I see huge improvement since you came here. Kick your Plan A into high gear and I think he will come around. Give it time, don't despair when he waffles (they all do). Keep your eye on the plan.

This was awesome advice thanks turtlehead. I definitely need to work on the disrespectful judgments as I don't really even notice I am doing these (that's sad I know). Right now I am reading Love Busters and am working to fix myself in this area.

Our assignment for this week from Steve was to do the ENs questionnaire. We are going to do this when we go out of town this weekend. Other than conversation and physical attractiveness I am unsure of what his ENs are. I have gotten back into working out and going to the gym. I've also put more thought into what I wear each day. I'm trying to keep up on his TV shows and basketball team so that I can talk with him about that. Once I know more of his needs I will come here and ask for ideas in how to meet them.

I will lay off the R talk

RW,
It *is* sad how many of us commit LBs without even realizing it, myself included. I was shocked to learn all the damage I was doing, without even knowing it. In fact, I've not paid attention to what comes out of my mouth recently and this is a good reminder to re-visit LBs and focus on getting them under control. DJs are my worst offense, too.

That's great that you guys are doing the EN questionnaires. Most people have to just guess. If he does his, you will have a road map to lead the way. That's a great advantage.

An update for those following our story.

With the exception of filling out our EN questionares this weekend I have not discussed relationship stuff. Today was the only day that I asked about the affair.

WH listed admiration as his top EN. I kind of picked up on that last week when I was trying to remember what I used to do for him back when we were dating. Sadly almost immediately after our wedding things started going downhill. I didn't realize it at the time but, I was LBing like crazy and unknowingly stopped meeting his top EN. I'm having a hard time finding things to say to him in the admiration category. I'm so hurt that it's hard to do. I have been working at this daily. He has responded very well so far to this.

WH's 2nd EN was physial attrativeness. I will stop being lazy in this category. His others were SF, DS, and surprisingly to me FS. He prefers me to have a career and contribute financially to the family.

I have asked about what chores are most important to him and we are putting together a chore chart to split duties. As it is now WH does most of the house work. I always thought he liked doing all of that stuff since he rarely asked me to help out. He's way more of a neat freak than I am but, will be happy to make the bed if I know it will make deposits.

Overall the questionaire was enlightening. I'm glad we did it. WH hasn't asked much about how he can meet my ENs but I'm assuming that will eventually come once he's completely committed to the M.

I'm still working to find ways to snoop on his work activities so I can monitor whether he is still in contact with OW. I had thought about a hardware keylogger but, it's state property so I'm not sure I can do that. A coworker of his would have to install it for me.

Any and all suggestions for what else I should be doing is appreciated. We have another appt with Steve this week

I forgot to add that I believe OW has now moved back to our town and thus is now back to attending our church on a weekly basis. I've successfully avoided going there the past week due to being out of town and etc. I need help on how to tell WH that we need to change churches now, my usual way would include AO, DJ , and SDs so any help on the wording of this would be good.

We both really loved our current church and this is where all of our friends are at. WH doesn't like the idea of moving however I know R will not work if we continue there.This is one thing I want to bring up with Steve.

I woke up this morning with this nagging feeling that WH is still being deceitful. So now I'm even more on a mission to find ways to snoop on his work activity. I have written a letter requesting phone records from his job due to the FOIA (our state law equivalent). It may take a while to get them though.

I wouldn't be able to install the hardware keylogger with out his coworker's help. This person seems hesistant to help me out with that. They have been keeping their eyes open for any fishy activity at work now that she knows about the A.

Days like this I feel really angry and wonder if it's worth it to go through the process. I saw someone's signature that said something like recovery isn't for the weak (I'm sure I messed that up!) but I'm realizing that the statement is very true. I'm starting to re-evaluate whether after all is said and done can I find myself to be happy with him after all of the pain he has caused.

Please forgive my sulking...I'm venting here in an effort to prevent an AO once I get home this evening.

Hey RW!

It's ok to sulk or complain here. That's one of the fine services we provide!! You are much better to do that stuff here then with WH.

Listen, recovery after an EA is a long hard road. It's a marathon not a sprint. You have to keep making lb deposits for a sustained period of time before the 'in love' feelings return. Keep doing what you are doing. It would be nice if WH would engage at some point soon but it may just take more time. If admiration is tops on his list it should be an easy one to meet. When he gets home from work thank him for working hard to support the family. When he cleans the house comment on how nice it is to have a clean house. All of these little comments add up over time so keep it up!

As for your nagging feeling, this is pefectly normal! You have been betrayed! This can go on for quite a while! Do your best to keep snooping.

Hang in there. Your family is worth it. If WH never wakes up and gets it you'll have plenty of time to plan a new life without him. For now, keep working to meet EN's and stop LB's, AO's and DJ's.

You can do this!

Mindshare

Oh....and ditch the church. I know that will be tough but you have to prevent any chance of contact. That means you need to find a new church. Sorry!

I agree, ditch the church. Unless WH wants to get up in front of the church and publicly apologize or something like that.

You asked how can you broach this without any DJs, AOs, or SDs. Tough nut to crack.

Men love to fix things. I think I would approach it like this:
WH, now that OW is in town and attending our church again, it is agony for me to be there, or to even think about going, or get ready to go. I love our church and we have some great friends there, but I cannot live with OW present in a place that is supposed to be a haven and a safe place for us. Her presence is turning everything about that church into a source of torture for me. What should we do?

Then just sit and let him come up with an answer. Just keep your mouth shut and let him ponder it. He might try to avoid responding; if he does, don't push it. Just tell him maybe you both need time to think it over, and when would be a good time to bring it up again? Then bring it up then.

There is really only one answer. If he comes up with it himeslf, he wont' fight with you about it. If he comes up with putzy halfway answers, tell him you appreciate it and you'll think it over. Then come back here if you need help formulating a response.

Thanks mindshare and turtlehead. I will use the "fix it" suggestion and let you know how it goes.

DS has been keeping us up all night sick the past couple days so I'm off to bed early.