Dear Jim,

Thanks for your advice about what I should do from now on. I promise I will be very careful. What would be your suggestion now: since it began this way it should end immediately/ Is that the solution?

GLima, my wife is married to me. She has moved out and has rented an apartment on her own.

She moved out because she and I had a tough year, OM gave her a comforting ear and some smooth talk, even though he was (and still is) married and separated.

No doubt she told him that our marriage was over, and now that she and I have separated, she is free to do as she pleases. She told me so (the law does not agree, but that's another story).

She has already made it known that as soon as our divorce is over (and he's gotten his too, -- haw!) they will marry.

Guess what?

Their entire relationship was founded on dishonesty. She didn't leave our marriage because we were having problems, she chose to have an affair with a married man that caused our marriage to collapse. It's called "re-writing history."

Fast-forward.

Let's say they do the unthinkable and actually do get married.

How long do you think that will last until things get a little tough, and one of them finds a different "comforting ear?"

One of them will come posting here asking how to recover their marriage.

Fred,

Let me tell you a story. There was a man who had fruit yard. He depended very much of the harvest of the garden to sustain himself and his entire family of many children. One year he didn't do as he always did: and the garden of fruits didn't produce as much as always as a result of very poor tending. He hired a consultant who supposedly was an expert in the business of fruit yards. After examining, the expert started saying what he would have to do for the next time, the sowing time. And he criticizes the man harshly, calling idiot and stupid (and indeed he was). And in the end, the man, seeing that that his kids were starving said: I have learned that. If I survive this year, and if my family and myself do not die, I promise you I will take into my heart all your advice. But what I should do now, because I have a family and mi kids and wife are starving; do you, expert, have any suggestion what I should do in order to survive from now on? And the expert started to criticize him again, telling all the things that he had not done in the past.

Dear Fred; would you have any suggestion to this man what he should do, since as Dr Harley suggests, we should think about the present and the future, after have learned from the past?

Thanks.

Glima, if your consultant told you to spread soil and fertilizer over a sewage site and you planted and grew roses, you still have a sewage tank underneath.

Fred,

Thanks. So... what is your suggestion? Taking the story apart, what you think I should do now? Finishing my marriage because it started that way? This may be an argument that my wife would love to use, since she seems quite willing to leave everything. Or should I have hope and faith that the Holy Spirit would work on our hearts and guides in a way of restoration? Or perhaps not even God is able to do something positive out of this?

Glima, I'm going to pass on giving you advice. If you want to know my story, you can read it here. You will see that I married a disordered woman. Not only is recovering a marriage with someone such as she not possible, it's not even advisable.

I'm saying that you should consider who it is that you married, and do you want to have that person back in your life?

If you're like me, the immediate answer is, "Yes, I love her." My question in response is, "Was she ever really able to love you?" When dealing with a disordered person, it's always about them. They are incapable of true feelings for someone else.

You cannot make them change. If somehow you get them back into the relationship, they are going to "flip the switch" again at some future time.

I can't say if your wife is disordered or not. I can say that the start of your relationship was built on a less-than-honest foundation, and perhaps even outright lies.

An A.A. elder that I know says that whenever he takes up a new "pigeon" (sponsee), he does two things:

• He talks to the man to find out what happened.
• He talks with his family to find out what really happened.

I was blind to my wife's faults and behaviors. I chose to be blind. The people here made me open my eyes.

For that I am grateful.

Great, Fred.

You talked with kindness and understanding and at the same time firm. Thanks indeed.

Due to her past, her family upbringing, she has indeed difficulties in giving herself entirely to someone in a relationship. Her father left her and her sister and mom and send them to her grandpa's house. She had to start very early to work and be the responsible person at home. It made her a very determined person and very pragmatic (she is an outstanding executive), and at the same time made her very afraid of giving herself completely into any kind of relationship (in order not to suffer). I have told her several times that I understand that, and like the Brazilian educator said once in one of his books, we are molded by our history, but we don't need to be determined by it! We can make our own history and get free of the terrible effects of the experiences of our past. But it is difficult for her. That's why I praying for a miracle. Or the miracle would be for me to take the initiative and leave?

Without going into great detail, Cluster B personality disorders are thought to be caused by emotional trauma experienced during childhood. What you have described of your wife fits that mold (again, I'm not qualified to diagnose). What these people do is spend the rest of their lives reacting to this trauma trying to find the emotional attachment they did not have, but when they find it, their fear of abandonment causes them to leave relationships and start the cycle all over again.

My wife had been married three times before when I met her. She'd had children by two different husbands. She told me of being born out of wedlock, of having no father and of having her alcoholic mother killed at an early age. I can go on. Do you get the idea?

I did not know the problems such a horrible childhood can cause. I thought my wife was a survivor, someone who had achieved victory over her past. How wrong I was.

After she "flipped the switch" and moved on to her new (current) relationship, I was dumbfounded. In many ways she behaved like your typical wayward, but there is also something different -- no remorse. No conscience. No regrets. No looking back (or coming back). She "triangulates" (she buys rescue dogs --also damaged-- and uses them to assuage some of her emotional trauma).

Someone recently wrote here that because of their aberrant behaviors, wayward spouses often act like Borderlines. What wasn't said was that Borderlines always act like wayward spouses. It's just a matter of time.

I prayed for miracles, too. And don't think for a moment that I've "recovered" or "gotten through" my pain and sorrow. However, I have become smarter, and the one thing I can change is me. I was the one who made it possible for me to get involved with a damaged woman.

Having experienced the anguish, trauma, sleeplessness (yes, I still don't sleep well), weight loss, PTSD and the blow to my self-esteem, I don't ever want to go through that again. So to that end, I am learning about my own family of origin (FOO) issues to understand better why I felll in love with a woman such as she.

Here are some places you can read about personality disorders. I offer them with this caution: Do not read these hoping to find your wife there. Just read them. And if you find your wife there, you will have learned more than you did when you got here.

• Shrink4men
• RealMentalHealth
• LoveFraud
• Truth About Deception
• Gettin' Better

I found the last one extremely helpful!

Good luck.

Fred,

SOmeone here told to hang on; I was going to receive some nasty critiques but I should hang on that I would learn a lot. And thanks a lot for your comments; I am beginning to understand that it is worthy to hang on.

Please do no stop sharing; your insights have been helpful. I will have a look into those sites.

Shalom,

GLima

You will not "fix" a serial cheater. I am sorry you started a family with such a person. Your child is the true victim in all of this.

You can read up on this site and try Dr. Harley's plan A/plan B for recovering your marriage, but I don't see much hope based on your WW's past. If you do try and recover your marriage I would at least do so with an eye toward protecting your custody rights. If you do divorce, you do not want this woman raising your child.

I'm not trying to judge you. I know how hard it is to deal with a cheating spouse. I just want you to realize what went wrong and how you wronged her last husband, so you can make things right and make better choices in the future.

Well, it helps to start from a solid, honest assessment of where you are and how you got there.

If you really want to save this marriage, I believe a big part of it is examining how you got to where you are today. A very large part of the current situation is that you are with someone who thinks the way to deal with relationship problems is to walk away from the other person (I.E. separate, divorce, whatever) and find someone else.

That's important information. It lets you into the mind of your wife.

So you have to be 100% honest about how you got to where you are today. If you can't do that, your chances of saving the marriage are even less than they already are.

Thanks, Enlightened.

I think now you are writing more like enlightened that critical. And thanks for your comments. I know that my wife has this kind of behavior. I want to leave or better yet, I want to solve this situation in a way that honors God (even if that was not the way to enter into it), that is: in a good, respectful, pregnant of Christian values way. I totally agree with you that what you say about my wife describes her in a reasonable way (I say reasonable because only the Lord knows her profoundly and knows exactly what are her motivations � I can just speculate. And I am not God, therefore I cannot make strong affirmations, although I cam use of logic and reason.).

And once again. Help me with your wisdom: I know already I should have started in a different way. Which positive suggestion or adive would you give me? My quote of critiques for what we have done in the past is overflowing. But from now on: what to do? Could you help in a positive way?

Thnaks.

Hi Fred,

The sites you gave were very useful. Do you have some other insights? I am still living with her in the same house (although in separate rooms) and sometimes I see her and there is a big urge to have sex with her. I took away my wedding ring first that she did. But because I was very much keen on sex, I feel strong desires. And I fear that will sometime put me in a very humiliating position... Any advice?

What country are you in or from GLima? Are you in Peru?

Larry

GLima,

There are others here who are better equipped to advise you under these circumstances than I. When my WW left the marriage, she did so absolutely and completely -- even though we lived under the same roof for five weeks.

It was sheer he//. The flip-flops and emotional confusion had me mentally spinning and doubting my own sanity. I hadn't found MB until a month into it, and by the time I got here, I only had five days in which to Plan A.

From the standpoint of Marriage Builders, I did so many things wrong and only a few things right. One of the things I have done well (though not perfectly) is Plan B. I believe it has saved my sanity.

Now I have to work on saving my job. I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not ... well, I'm not going Led Zeppelin on you -- you get the point.

Hi Larry,

Why are you asking? No, I am not from Peru.

GLima.