So who out there is not going to end up being a disordered adult if we apply this criteria? All children screw up or have faulty thinking at some point, with or with parental presence. If the child doesn't grow up or mature for whatever reason they are not on their way to being disordered.

I realize that in most cases you will not get a DX. And, one has to worry about one's objectivity and the temptation to pigeonhole someone for self serving purposes.
But, assuming you are not delusional and that you have adequate sensory perception, really, a person in a relationship with a BPD is , ofetn , in the best position to make the assessment. The behavior is seldom revealed to an outsider and the Dx is really tough.
Again, it is tough to have ceratinty re one's objectivity, expertise and motivation. I would not have as much confidence in my "dx" but for all the research i did on both the criteria and my XWW's history. I found out sonme truly shocking stuff. Lots of victims.

As one poster points out, we all have a smattering of this stuff, br. It is just over the top with the PD's.
This is the reason someone coming out of a relationship with a PD person has doubts. It is like the first year med student thinking she has all these diseases because of minor symptoms.
You would know one of these folks, beleive me, if you ever were in a relationship with one. He would mess you up.

BR, I don't know if this answers the question or not, but my very own daughter "saw" my WW better than I did! Yet, when I started researching and came across some astounding (to me) articles that made the lights go on and started the bell ringing, I passed them on to her, and her only response was, "well yes, that sounds like it could be her."

I think that what makes this whole issue so hard to wrap one's arms around is that it takes two to form a relationship with a disordered person. If one is not emotionally involved ("invested") in a relationship, then the disordered person can appear very normal, charming and likable. Oh, there may be some "quirks," but they can add "zest" to the casual observer.

The disordered people "engulf" those with whom they have relationships. This is why when they "split," the person affected is left stunned and sometimes doubting their own sanity.

My daughter and myself. We both knew the same woman. Yet she saw her in a different light, which turned out to be more accurate than the dream that WW helped build to engulf me.

Zelmo, my H is over the top in many ways and Lord knows I have doubted myself for many things. It would be very easy for me to label him as disordered. I do not think he is disordered but he was extremely emotionally immature. I know you would say just the opposite.

I call Bull! (on the portion in red) You're the most likely to have a skewed opinion, especially when you take into account the amount of evil a wayward dishes out!

My family ALL thought I had Bi-Polar Disorder..... Those closest we not in any position to make a dx!

Not really, BR. I think you are in the best position to make that assessment. If he is over the top like that, for whatever reason, you have my sympathy.
One's relationship should be one's safe haven. Sure , there will be issues, but, really, it should be a source of comfort and security.

Fred, there are posters on here who see different things when reading the same story. Some will offer advice to a newbie, while others don't bother because you can see that that person is not going to listen. Just because you saw your WW in a different light does not mean she was disordered. You may have seen what you wanted to see as well.

tst, waywardness has very little to do with this. It is just one of the possible manifestations. Have you read the DSM IV criteria? My WW had 8 of 9, and only one pertained to her cheating. And, these behaviors were in existence long before she cheated.

We are talking 8 years of this stuff going on.

Who else was going to witness the cold water dousings.? No one was around when I would be told i had no male appendage or testicles and was like a woman. No one except our bank knew how many checks she bounced. No one saw the hundreds of pairs of shoes she bought or the 5o bikinis she stocked up on.
Think she was going to a counselor to disclose having done this stuff. Use your head.

I see. Nothing short of a clinical diagnosis will convince you. That's OK. I pray you never have to find out the hard way what a relationship with a disordered person is like.

Of course. That's why infidelity is so traumatic...the safe haven is destroyed and the BS is left to wonder if they were ever really safe since Day 1 with WS. We could go round and round. What some people call disordered, I would call a spoiled brat or immature. What some call verbal abuse, I'd say big whoop. It's all perspective.

HAve you read this woman's relationship history, BR.
I bet Fred has all tpes of illustrations of this weirdness.

Did you read aboout her threats to desseminate hurtful things about his sexual adequacy? That is really out there, abusive and disordered.

Hmmmmmmm

Family Member Diagnosis ....

I don't need a clinical diagnosis Fred. We agree to disagree and that's fine.

Yeah, but it was unsafe long before the infidelity.

How about next time i represent a battered woman, I tell her it is all about perspective. What she calls a broken jaw, I call a playful accident.

No I have not read his thread. If she is making such threads she is lashing out instead of looking in the mirror. That is typical wayward stuff...the details may vary but it's all ugly and hurtful. I will take a look but there have been plenty of times you have said WSs speak and act insane and then you say poster X's WS is evil and it really is more of the same outrageous junk that WS do. Pre-DDay, in a million yrs I would never have dreamed my H was capable of the vile stuff he did but he did. Horse sh&t, rat sh&t, cow sh&t...does it matter? Some WSs would simply rather keep on running vs facing themselves.

Are you dressed today?

Sttrrrrrreeecttchhhh.

Seriously, BR. If you cheated on someone, would you then threaten to slander him in this way? I submit that regardless of the stimuli, you would not be so low.
And, what of her previous relationships. She simply abandoned her kids. This stuff is not fog or immaturity.