Congratulations on your new job.

I hope that you will still continue to be able to talk with your husband on a daily basis. Do tell him that you still very much need him and conversation with him if he will allow it. It seems to me that is the truth from what I have picked up from your posts.

It is still early on the journey down the rocky road. Anything is possible from this point.

Larry

OH GOOD GRIEF!

A female engineer! Constant analysis and then constant talking, could it get worse?

Congratulations on the new job. The problem you have u233, is that what you did was not "logical" and you cannot expect your H's responses to be "logical" nor linear. He is hearing and seeing what you do through a very non-linear filter and since you don't know the algorithm he is using, you are having a hard time predicting his reactions.

My suggestion is collect data, and fit it without worrying about the details of his filter. You might want to consider a similar approach to understanding your filter.

Just a thought.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks again you guys!!

Yes, the constant analysis and constant talking works really well for maximizing profitability of industrial processes. This is something that my H and I have done together for years at work. He is on the production side and has always asked me for my technical input. But, our M is a billion times more valuable than making millions for some company. Loving him and our family, making amends, and working on our M is my first priority from here on out.

Speaking of value . . . the work that you guys are doing on this forum (and the Harley's work) is the best ever. I can't thank you all enough.

Bumping with an update and a question.

My H has come back home and we are in the midst ofthe long road to R. It goes without saying that I am ecstatic about him being home. But I am also feeling the overwhelming sense of misery that comes with having hurt him so very badly. I pray daily for his heart to be healed and behave only in ways that will support this healing process.

I have a question. Since his return, we haven't had very many discussions regarding the A or recovery. We are following the MB guidelines in our actions to a T. But, we haven't had many (if any) major A or R discussions since he came back. Should I initiate one? Or should I continue to follow his lead? In general, I know that men don't like to discuss things as much as women do. But, maybe he wants to talk and is scared to bring it up?

Let him lead the way, but also let him know that you are willing to do whatever it takes to heal, including discussing the A. He may still be working through the shock of everything and processing his emotions. He may not realize he even has questions at this point.

Ok. One quick thing to add is that we have discussed the A at length, exposed, gave him full disclosure of details, and i got a new job in the weeks following d-day. Just adding that info for those who don't feel like reading the full thread . . . . .

I need confirmation from you all on something so I can make up my mind about it. First of all, it seems that H and me are progressing fairly well along the early road of R. I am very grateful for that fact. I feel very loved by him and get the feeling that I am meeting his EN's and that my NC and EP actions are creating the necessary atmosphere for him to heal.

Here is the concept that I am trying to wrap my brain around:
From my reading on this forum, it seems that no matter how many years pass and how "complete" our recovery is, there will never come a time that I won't feel like I deserve anything bad that he might decide to do to me. I am saying that based on the writings of BS's that are years into R. It seems that I need to prepare for a lifetime of settling for less because I lost my bargaining power to ask for more. Not that he is treating me badly or anything, I just suspect that because of what I did, I have forever lost the right to expect anything. Also, I guess I need to prepare for a lifetime of paranoia that he might leave me (even 10 or 15 years down the road) because of the A. For example, we are making retirement plans. I have a fear in the back of my mind that he might take advantage of all my earning and saving abilities to facilitate our retirement and then divorce me right afterwards which would put me in a position to start from scratch. Perhaps it would be deserved in many folks' minds but still it would be miserable for me.

Am I right to expect perpetual punishment? If I am, so be it. I just am wondering if I am missing something.

No, you should not prepare for a life of perpetual punishment. That would mean your H never forgave you, which needs to happen for his own peace of mind. Can you get him on this site, or at least introduce the MB concepts? Have you done any of the worksheets together? Have you BOTH identified your ENs? Read any of the books?

No! Recovery is for you two to learn to work together for a mutually fulfilling marriage.

A loving BS will tell you of his fears and triggers and so on, and ask you to take actions to help ease his fears, or to just listen. Yes there will be hurt that he expresses in order to hurt you back at the beginning. He's human and he's just endured indescribable pain at your hands. Anyone would lash out in hurt, anger, and fear. But those days will pass.

You should tell your BS of your own fears, too.

Eventually you guys won't want to hurt each other. You'll be all about making each other happy. You won't be naive and carefree again, but look where that got you. Instead you'll be active participants in enriching and safeguarding your marriage.

It's not about "bargaining power" - that is a power struggle. It's about helping each other along the journey. Eventually you'll let him know what you want/need and he'll do it NOT because you have bargaining power, but because making you happy is his top priority.

We are both familiar with the MB concepts. He has read the MB material on-line but to my knowledge has done little if any reading on the forum (although I have told him several times that he might find it helpful). I have read SAA but he has not.

I understand that the goal is to have a mutually fulfilling, loving marriage where both H & W are protecting each other. It just seems that once someone (like myself) has screwed up, they have to give up on being fulfilled and concentrate strictly on fulfilling their BS's needs.

I dunno but I think that maybe I am just in a fearful funk because we haven't discussed the A or R at all in the last month but rather are just enacting the MB principles without discussing them. Things are good!!! But I am fearful!!!! It is obvious that I am a weirdo (as evidenced by my past wayward activities) but maybe I am also a weirdo becasue in every situation in life I expect the worst so that I won't be dissapointed.

Either way, I am committed to continuing to do whatever it takes to makes amends to my H and be a good moral person. I just wish I could push my fears out of my mind at the same time.

Thanks to those who responded.

Then you aren't familiar with MB concepts. Nowhere does it say that you have to give up on being fulfilled. You DO have to concentrate on meeting your H's needs, and he needs to concentrate on meeting yours. You need to build an affair-proof M together.

Your comment concerns me because it appears that the two of you are working parallel in your healing, but not actively healing together.

u233sws,

I think because you gave full disclosure to your H you are in good stead in the long term. My issue with my wife came back to life with a chance meeting with OM a few years ago, after 16 or so years, when OMs body language was "odd".

Does your H still run into OM on occasion?

Gamma

maritalbliss,

I know that nowhere in Harley's writings does it say I need to give up on being fulfilled. I have picked that up in the attitudes of the BS's on the forum. Even years after their WS's A, they often still seem to be seeking retribution. That doesn't go for every BS, just some. Perhaps their WS's haven't fully practised the MB concepts and that is what leaves the BS still angry/resentful/etc years later. At any rate, you hit the nail on the head!!! We are working through R and building an A proof M in parallel, not together. Since Dday #2, I jumped whole hog into MB and working through the recommended processes to the letter. However, he has not "drunk the MB Koolaid." Now, he has been very sweet and loving and is R'ing in his own way. But as far as following the MB code, I am sorta on my own. This is probably the source of some of my fear. I* won't stop trying though.

Gamma,

Yes, my H sees OM once a week at a meeting since they still work together. In this meeting they don't have to address each other so basically they sit in a room full of people and ignore each other. This will not change until my H retires in 4 years.

MB is perfect when it's perfectly followed by both spouses. That doesn't mean it can't help heal your M when one spouse utilizes it a little differently. Actions mean everything. If your H is being loving and is showing that these concepts are tools he's using, even in his own way, then keep going with what you're doing. It sounds to me like you're reading things into his actions and judging him accordingly. Maybe take a step back from doing that and just keep working on the concepts.

Take a time out with your attitude, and I don't mean that harshly. You just don't want to get into "victim mode" where you think your H isn't on board with rebuilding the M just because he doesn't want to carry the EN questionnaire around wherever he goes, KWIM? That attitude can backfire on you - your H may pick up that you've got some tangled emotions in your healing. And really - living in fear is not an attractive or useful quality.

Stop being afraid. Sounds easy, doesn't it. But - it is. Consider this: the day may come when your H, out of the blue, says "Okay, that's it. I'm throwing in the towel." Or it may not. What is being afraid until then going to do for you? Do you feel on some unconscious level that being afraid is a way of making amends?

Embrace the healing of your M. When you start to feel afraid, tell yourself "We are rebuilding our marriage. Life is good." Repeat as often as necessary until your positive thoughts crowd out the negative ones.

Maritalbliss, you are awesome! This last post has given me some clarity in a mind that has been seriously struggling for the past week. Thanks so much. I am ranking you among the top 3 most helpful folks for me!! U233's top 3: Just Learning, Maritalbliss, Larry. I look up to you all. I hope one day in the future I can help some folks the way you have helped me.

Aww..shucks, I'm glad to help. I know you'll be paying it forward.

Bumping for Helena.