Well, Kristy, he has just given you more ammunition which you can use: He doesn't want people to know the OW is a "massage girl."

Guess what everyone should be told?

So let me get this straight, he sees nothing wrong with the A and does not mind people knowing about it but it is thw who that he doesn't want known.


Shame and embarrassment are consequences of bad decisions. It is the deed that is wrong, not the revealing of the deed. I say expose.

God's Blessings,

Say

Kristy,

I am sorry that I have not had time to get back to you until now and even now I am rushing.

I lived in Singapore, but I know that all the massage parlors in Asia are the same. Do not allow your husband to return there. The web gets tighter with each visit.

These �girls� are highly skilled in charming their victims. Your husband was made to feel like a King. He would never have experienced such doting, subservient attention before. Believe me your husband tells you a lie that it was not physical.

I call them �girls� to be polite but also they quite often are only
Girls. They can be as young as ??12 and of course there is also the trade in younger ones.. Asia is full of the sad and sordid, life has no value to very many there.

These "girls" have an agenda.. Initially, they want the largest tip they can get and hopefully repeat customers but ultimately they hope to have their "John" fall in love and offer to support them. They all hope to escape the life.

Keep a close watch on your finances.. He may already be sending her money. They offer to remove themselves from the parlor/Go Go bars etc. if they only had the money to support themselves. What the victims do not know is that they are normally one of several she is communicating with.

I'm so sorry you have been caught up in this. It is a hard addiction to beat. Your husband has been swept from his feet, made to feel like a King and a savior and totally seduced. You must smash that illusion.

My friend hired a PI in Bangkok and got the information she needed. I could get the name if you so wish.

I'm sorry I can't put email address on here.. But if you are happy to do so, I will contact you.

You MUST expose; he must be made to see what a fool he is being and how disgusting the entire event is. These women have a clientele of about 10 men a day, on a slow day!!! They pray for American/Germans etc. to walk in the door. Also you must be tested for STD's. Do not sleep with your husband until you get the all clear.

They will undoubtedly be in contact. So look for proof in emails and check the cell phone and don�t be surprised if he has a secret one you are not aware of. Their English is usually stumbling and broken.

Do not even attempt to contact this �girl� she cares nothing about you. That this man is married and has children is not even
a consideration to her.. Life is valued at the next bowl of rice. The desire to make money is their ONLY concern.

Please believe me, I know what I am talking about, I have lived
amongst it and have had friends suffer the consequences.

I will pray for you and wish you well. I leave it up to you about posting your email.

God bless.

And as Nom said, it must be done through exposure.

You cannot make him see, Kristy. If you try to explain to him, show him proof, etc. he will only hear you nagging him. He will think you are controlling. He will see you as insecure and needy. He will NEVER see or hear the facts and information you share with him.

Exposure is the only thing he will notice.

I understand you saving face. You have to decide if you wish to save face or save your marriage. He needs to be brought back to reality with a thump. You know your husband and he obviously fears being ridiculed for falling for this old sleazy trap.

It is nothing to see men of even retirement age give up everything and move to Asia to be with their concubine. The concubine considers a person on social security a millionaire! Never forget the dollar value attached to your husband for that is what he is to her. She will fight with all she has for her meal ticket.

Why save face when there is no marriage? Save your marriage first then you wont have to worry about your face. love yourself, love your marriage, love him.

LISTEN TO THE VETS....THEY KNOW OF WHAT THEY SPEAK.......

they are wise, they have lived this horrible existence and they are here to tell thier tale...listen to them.....they can and will and do want to help you.

i am so sorry for your pain..., read everything here and do what they say....your marriage can and will survive this "massage" girl, it will not survive if your biggest concern is embarressment. love does not care how it looks, how far it has fallen and where it lands, it only survives if it is valued. value yourself, value your husband, value the sanctitiy of marriage and kick this little massage girl's a......

Now it sounds even more scary. My fool H even disclosed his identify in the emails. I had a long discussion with a good friend who is an experienced urologist, he said my H has psycho-sexual problem needs to see a specialist. He also pointed out the dangers that My H could potentially get himself into. We thought he might just had problem with his mind, perhaps some special Tai massage technique woke up some his sensational feelings that he never experienced. My H kept on telling me it is not physical, just emotional. From the emails that they communicate, the girl (she is actually married for 12 years with a boy) does not seem that dangerous either. Now the whole thing just seem so ridiculous.

I have to seriously find a way to deal with it. Thanks for all the help. Hope I can get out the web.

Nom, can you please send me the PI info to tallsp56@gmail.com please? Thanks. I actually know who this girl is and where she works, everything. When I told my H what those girls like, he said she is nothing like that. She does not do sex, only do propoer massage.

Kristy, I will gladly do that for you. My heart goes out to you. Listen to the wise people here, this is a wonderful site and the posters are amazing. I have been reading on here for years and many of them are very wise. I do not recognize all of them, but I do know that Fred and Turtle will be a great help to you.

Don't be scared, I was just trying to show you the makeup of the person you are dealing with, to help you understand.

None of them tell the truth about their life. Many do work normal jobs aside from the sleazy side of their lives. Many are supporting entire extended families. This is very normal but also remember you can not believe one word she says.

Do NOT expect her to be telling your husband the truth! Once she feels she has your husband hooked she will suddenly have a need for $$ as her son is ill and she has no money, or some other drama. Watch your bank accounts closely the money is usually sent by wire transfer, Western Union.

I can help with the PI and life in Asia but please turn to the experienced posters here to help you save your marriage. Believe me you CAN do it! This lady is not what she tells your husband.
I would stake my life on it. Keep monitoring their correspondence if you can and don't tell your husband you are.

I will email you as soon as I hear from my friend.

Kristy, Nomdeplume is speaking the truth. I lived in Bangkok many years ago, when I was young. Even then, life was cheap, and anything you wanted could be had --without question-- as long as one has money.

As a youth, I rented a motorcycle and drove around the city all day. I was too young to have a driver's license! No one cared. I went into bars and drank. No one asked to see an I.D. Ten years later, my sister went back for a summer to teach horseback riding --someone offered to sell her a baby!!!

Things have only gotten worse. Drugs, prostitution, cheap sex-change operations, arms dealing --you name it, it can be had in Bangkok!

"Massage parlor" is just a "code word" for "brothel." Anyone who travels even semi-frequently knows that. Nomdeplume has correctly described what these people are like. Your husband is being played like a fish on a line. The hook is set, and they're just waiting to reel him in.

You cannot wait to kill this thing now! Not only are you trying to save your marriage, but you might also be saving your husband's life. He may not know it now --in fact, he'll probably hate you for it at first-- but he will, and his gratitude will noticeable!

Thanks for all your help from my heart! I will do whatever it is to save him from being destroyed. Thanks.

Yes, what you said is exactly right. She said in the emails she is doing other jobs as well to support the family. The family has other problems, mother suicided, sister needs help, etc. My H even went there last weekend for 3 days to see what the reality is, he said hard to find her for the first day, then she showed him the professional certificate she does massage. After he came back, he said she is very genuine, he can not stop the contact because he has feelings very strong, etc. I pretent to be a client and emailed the massage place to ask if No # offer oral and V sex, the reply was yes it is included in the price. I showed the email to my H, he said do not believe a word the parlour said, they are lying. He thinks she is a poor woman with lots of problems and needs help, very fragil. He just does not believe a word I say. Hard to believe he can be like this, he was such a nice man before this.

He is an addict and is in denial. His addiction is to the affair and the OW. His denial will not let him believe anything other than what he wants to believe.

Yet he does not want anyone to know OW is a massage girl. The "real" husband, deep inside, is very conflicted.

You must expose.

I'll say it again.

HE WILL NOT LISTEN TO YOU.
He will not see or hear any proof you have.
He simply will not.

All he will see or hear is "Kristy is trying to control me; she is a liar; she is desperate, clingy, needy. I hate her."

You know the OW is feeding him lies with her stories and "professional certificate" but you simply cannot talk to WH about that. Right now your job is NOT to educate your WH. It simply cannot be done and you are driving him further away by trying to educate him.

I do admire your snooping tactics however emailing the massage place and asking about oral and V sex was brilliant. It took a lot of courage.

EXPOSE this affair. That is the only thing he will hear. He will be angry, but he will get over it.

You are exactly right. Every time I say she is a prostitute, my H said it just drove him away further. He somehow want to come back, but can not control his feelings. I think himself is very conflicted, he says it is quite depressing. I just cannot expose it at workplace at the moment, It is just too devasdating, I will expose first to some good professional friends this weekend to ask them to talk to him. I think he should take notice. If he can not change, I will expose further. Will this be effective? Meanwhile, some friends will suggest him to see a psycho-sexual specialist.

Kristy, I sent you an email yesterday and I await your reply. Check your junk folder as it probably went there. I used my posting name here in the subject line. Let me know here if you did not get it and I will resend.

These ladies are very artful and well trained in what they do. As the others have said, he will not believe you. Stop trying to persuade him as it drives him from you and must be making you crazy. I know it's hard on you and the pain is great. Be a safe place for him to land.

He is not going to see a psycho-sexual specialist because he doesn't have anything wrong with him.

Trickle exposure is no good. You don't want him to have time to spread stories about his "crazy jealous wife who is imagining things and paranoid".

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

A sample letter for exposure at work, written by Brit's Brat, a MB member and corporate attorney:


To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

Just to push the thread up a bit, hoping for advice from LLL.

kristy, how old is your H? I did not read al your posts but I get the gist here that we are confronted with the usual WS sex-driven addiction.
Your H said it himself, he can't control it. Sex is powerful and it is one of the few human experiences that give you a climpse of heaven. For a moment you have not thought and everythng subsides,,,all your problems are gone and you are one with the OW with whom, by the way, you do not yet share any day to day problem.
So you are allowed a glipse of heaven but you are not allowed to dwell in it for long.
But how long is the issue. It depends on the OW, circumstances and exposure.
The sooner you expose the less heaven your H will experience.
It is an addiction and a powerful one.
blessing