|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
Minor requests:
@black_raven: Can you remove WW's name from your quote of my first post? I didn't realize that I'd left that in there. I've fixed my post now, but your quote is still there.
@ML: Can you use the username that starts with a 'G' rather than the one that starts with an 'S' (maybe editing your posts, too)? I probably should have chosen something better than spelling it backwards, but in case WW does manage to make her way here, it be nice to make things a little more difficult for her. (I've noticed a Google search for the 'S' name plus "marriage" brings up this thread.)
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,344
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,344 |
G - they ALWAYS try to make it out like YOU are the one with the problem. ALWAYS.
Dr. Oz JUST had a segment on his show about it last week. I thought the Wookie (fwh) was going to choke when he saw it.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108 |
It is fixed...I almost had an aquanet moment there and wasn't sure what post you meant at first. 
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108 |
The talk with the kiddos is always tough. Sorry.  But they sound like they took the new as well as could be expected. Do worry about the letter too much...what's done is done. If you can retrieve it without detection...great. But don't put yourself in a bad position to do so.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554 |
This morning I asked her if she wanted me to trust and believe her if she would take a polygraph test. Her response, "How incredibly mean of u to ask that of me. Do u want a divorse? U really need to talk to a personal councelor." I said, "No, I do not want a divorce. Nor did you answer the question" She's in a VERY wayward mindset. Here's something to consider: Try to not start your replies with a negative, like "no". For example, consider this instead (same reply you gave, worded a bit differently): "I don't want a divorce. However, you didn't answer my question". Also, when talking to your kids about your WW's activities, I suggest NOT repeating to them what your WW said to you, e.g. "your mom says that they did not have sex." You're just repeating her babble-talk, which likely isn't true anyway. Instead, tell them only what YOU believe to be true. Let them get your WW's side of the story from her, or she's going to accuse you of "changing what she actually said".
ManInMotion
===========
(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
OMW sent me a text this morning saying that her daughters had found out that OM had not done anything for her for Valentine's Day. His oldest sent him a text on Monday that said, "If you are having an affair, I will never speak to you again." He's been a little moody since Monday, she says. gn, good job on telling your daughters. Will the OMW tell her DD's about the affair too? What was the reaction of the OMW to the affair? Have you given more thought to exposing to the OM's facebook friends and to the other parents in the karate club? Also, what about Plan B? Are you still prepared to go into Plan B?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
OMW - Well...this was interesting...I told her my news, she sighed and then we started discussing things and giving me info. OM had another A 17 years ago with another woman in karate. That A ended when OM's gf didn't want to deal with his daugthers (2 and 3, at that time) because she'd already had her kids and they were older. OMW and OM reconciled with an agreement that if he ever decided to go off with someone else again, that they would get a divorce. OMW knew that they'd been spending a lot of time together over the past few years, but did not have suspicions. She's agreed to work with me to gather more facts. She did ask that I know nuclear blast to the karate association yet, until we had more. When the past A had occurred, people in karate knew, but hadn't told her then and she did not find any support from them. Another tidbit - OM's been impotent for 3 years and he and OMW have not had SF in at least that time. Based on the pictures, she agrees that something besides close friendship is going on. ok, I found it here. What is the PLAN? Where is the plan to bust up the affair? Can you go in together and hire a PI to get the goods? Is the OMW planning on spying him?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
OMW has started the spying on her side. We've been sharing information and snooping advice via email for most of the day. We are working on gathering more facts rather than conjecture.
It is my impression that OMW would not be telling her DDs, but I warned her that, since I told DD18 and my DD18 talks to her DD19, that it would likely come out.
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
OMW's recent email says,
"Can I make one more thought? It will help you in your conversations with her if you just come to the conclusion that there is/was an affair/sex. Even if she never admits it out loud. I think you should quit pushing her to admit it.
As far as you (and I) are concerned, there was sexual activity, and the pictures and lying about where she was that night to cover up for that activity is plenty of proof. I had noticed that all the out of town trips that she took with OM to tournaments all happened when I didn't go. And I always found out she was going after I would wait until the last minute to
say I wasn't going. I had pointed it out to OM and asked him if she didn't like me or something. I guess it was the 'or something' (I always got an 'I don't know or a shrug as an answer).
You can pepper your conversations that let her know you believe there was activity and no amount of denying it will ever change your mind. Just quit pushing her to admit it because it is liable to never happen and it just creates more hostility. (Did I tell you that things like this are never fair to the wronged person?) For example, you can say "Since you are no longer
seeing OM sexually, what will happen to our relationship" or some other such wording. You are going forward as if there was sexual activity and the most important part is what is going to happen going forward. How will she act to convince you that she is not interested in that kind of activity with him again, etc.?
I know it is hard but continually asking her to admit it will not get you anywhere. But she also needs to know you know something happened so there is no use asking her to admit it. Your attitude should just be "how stupid do you think I am, of course you did something wrong'" and then just keep on talking without missing a step.
Just for what it is worth."
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I know it is hard but continually asking her to admit it will not get you anywhere. But she also needs to know you know something happened so there is no use asking her to admit it. Your attitude should just be "how stupid do you think I am, of course you did something wrong'" and then just keep on talking without missing a step. She is exactly right. This is a common mistake that many BS's make. They waste time trying to get an admission of what they already know. You don't need her admission to know the truth. When does the OMW plan on confronting her H with this news? Will you please explain to her that exposure is her most potent weapon nad the sooner she brings the affair out into the open, the sooner it will be killed.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
It is my impression that OMW would not be telling her DDs, but I warned her that, since I told DD18 and my DD18 talks to her DD19, that it would likely come out. You are exactly correct. The kids will find out eventually. Dr Harley is very clear that children need to be told the truth. The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Dr. Harley on telling the children: Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. here 2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). here My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
Maybe I am belaboring the issue in getting her to confess, but I just want her to tell the truth about something...
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108 |
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,108 |
Maybe I am belaboring the issue in getting her to confess, but I just want her to tell the truth about something... You will only be twisting yourself in knots by belaboring this. WSs do not like to confess anything freely. It is not until they are cornered and/or ignored that the truth starts to come out...sad but true.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
I got the letter back this afternoon while she was teaching her afterschool class. OMW says she called OM who said he was waiting for WW at a fastfood place to give WW some fliers to take to class. She had a to-go bag from there, so they definitely met up.
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247 |
G --
She will only admit to what you can prove. And often she will try to downright distort or twist the actual proof that you have.
Its really a waste of your energies to try to force a confession.
She is incapable of honesty right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
OMW just clarified the text message from her DD and OM this morning. It actually specifically mentioned my WW, "If I find out you're having an affair with WW, I will never speak with you again."
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 95 |
catperson said this in Barnboy/Doormat_No_More's thread: You know, I get a very low buzz in your thread that may or may not be a valid assessment. You're smart, you're educated, you read a LOT...and your wife...well, she isn't any of that, right?
Here's a great topic for you two to discuss. Ask her if she feels inferior to you. I'm going to bet that she says yes.
What do you do with that? Well, you can't make her rise up to your level of knowledge and understanding. But you can lower yourself down when you're with her, to HER level of comfort. Kind of like I can edit a book for a college student, or I can rewrite it for a fourth-grader.
It may be a huge sticking point for her that she doesn't feel 'good' around you because you always have an answer or a better way or just generally overwhelm her with your intelligence.
That can be very wearing on a person. And make them want to avoid being around you, so as to no longer feel bad.
Not saying it's true, just something for you to consider. This is a problem with WW and me, too. One of WW's complaints is that I always have to be right and I have book-learned facts to back it up with. I have been working hard to 1) not interrupt her (or other people) when they are speaking and 2) not correct the little mistakes said during or after they are done talking (she: "today's a full moon", me: "actually it's not officially until tomorrow"). Me: College graduate, straight As, school comes easy, always reading a book or a magazine or the web, perfectionist/everything has to be correct Her: 1.5 years of college (had to drop out when DD18 was born), average/C student, has not finished a book in at least four years and has only started two (one of which was Men are from Mars, on the advice of the SiL that thinks I'm psychotic) Other than continuing to "not sweat the small stuff", any suggestions on how to not continue DJs like this?
I'm not a complete idiot. There are parts missing.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,916
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,916 |
Ok, one of your imperfections is arrogance. You are also a complete windbag. You will also go find help when you need it and you are capable of changing your mind when hit up the side of the head by a two x four. Those are good things. And obviously admiration is one of your ENs.
One of the ways you can change yourself, in my opinion, is to show other people that you value their worth as human beings. Other people are not placed on earth to be anything but admirers of themselves and their own ID, not yours. Once you grab on to that concept, you can work on subtle and not so subtle ways of showing other people that they value to you. If you really believe that.
See, somehow you got into some sort of competition with your wife instead of just being a husband she ADMIRED. Women have no problem admiring a manly husband who loves them, trust me. And the smarter the man, they more admiration they get from wives.
They become an extension of the wives identity. She is married to a really smart guy. Another way of putting this is to reflect on a Jewish Mom's wish that their son would be a doctor and their daughters would marry one. Brains and success.
So how does someone change from being a crashing boor? Well, I did it through a number of steps that included:
Realizing that not everything written in a book was true.
Realizing that most people had something of value, if not much.
Realizing that it was fun to see what someone else thought.
Realizing that asking questions made the other person important.
Realizing that giving unsolicited advice was stupid.
Realizing that being funny was a good way to get my point across.
You asked.
Larry
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,344
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,344 |
Maybe I am belaboring the issue in getting her to confess, but I just want her to tell the truth about something... At this point in the space time continuum, a confession would mean exactly bubkiss. No matter what she says RIGHT NOW, it will only be a partial truth or denial. IOW, you can't believe a word from her even if she's telling you her eyes are brown (or blue or green). There is NO way to know the truth right now, so give that bit up...you're tilting at windmills on this one.
I never had to take the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?O'hana means family, and family means nobody gets left behind or forgotten. My Story Recovered!
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
327
guests, and
64
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,525
Members72,046
| |
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
|
|
|
|
