Yeah, just like you forced her to have an affair.

Look at what you said, Jon. Does it even make sense to you?

She isn't forcing you to do anything. She is rattling your cage. She is pulling out all the stops in an effort to get you to let her have her affair.

When it's done, she wants you to come back to, that's why she hasn't already filed for divorce herself. She wants YOU to be the bad guy so that she can tell everybody it is your fault that you ended up divorced. It gives her more spin for her story about OM, who she will eventually dump anyway and she knows it because she knows he isn't long term relationship material.

She rings the bell and you salivate. She waves the hoop and you jump through it. She pushes your buttons and you react just like she expected you to react. You get in her face about OM or the affair and she waves her hand and you cower in fear.

You've listed all the reasons you can't save you marriage. Do you have any reasons you should not just sleep on the sofa while OM takes your place in your bed?

If you just want to get a divorce, then do it. You don't need marriage builders help for that.

Don't get me wrong, Jon. If you want to divorce then I'm down with that. But if that is what YOU want then do it and quit reacting to her crap. When I asked if you wanted to save your marriage I was talking about what YOU want, not what she might want or what she says she wants or what you think she might want...

That's what I keep trying to tell you is that you are making decisions based on what she tells you and what you think she wants you to do and say. If you want to save your marriage you have to act from your own desires and beliefs. She didn't consult you when she betrayed you, why does she get input into your choice to fight for your marriage and keeping your family intact?

Mark

Oh good grief. Until you respect yourself, you ain't gonna get any from her.

Larry

Yeah shes a coldhearted biatch who is acting entitled. Sounds so calm and will rip out your heart and hand it to her new boyfreind to see if he wants a bite too. Welcome to the world of addiction type behavior Jon. You have been waiting for her to return to the image she sold you earlier in life. The one we all want to believe when we buy into romantic love that is supposed to stay with us for the rest of our lives. Those images are part of our childhood dreams and desires to be secure and.. hold on to your butt...such a easy way out for many people. You can get a D and move on and we can't and I wont stop you if your not ready to step outside of your emotional reactions yet. Heck you might be able to find "real" love with someone else who you can talk about how much this wife hurt you and maybe you will "survive" as you give a permenant place to these emotional issues you are having in your heart.
Thats what you are doing Jon, you are telling yourself that love is a feeling. Its not, its an action. Your wife is sick right now. Tell me, if your child someday at the ripe old age of 5 tells you that they are going to run away from home because you wont let them play with matches like "all the other kids do" will you consider letting them play with them to "teach them a lesson"? Would you let your 16 year old daughter stay out till 3 AM with your car because she believes the lie that thats what she needs to do to have real fun?
In either case, could you find it in your heart to eventually forgive them when they come to there senses? YOU have to have faith in what is right in those situations and not even give it a second thought as you enforce boundaries for them. When its over you will need to forgive them for being children. As you enforce boundaries you hopefully will not be ranting and raving about how stupid they are and being so frail and hurt that you could never even talk to them again because couldn't they see how much you did for them boohoo yadeeyada. If you do stay offended you will push them away and they will base love purely on performance. Would you still love your 5 year old if they got burned andlanded in the hospital? Or would you stand there and tell them thats what they deserved and disown them for costing you money and embarrassing you? I would tell you that you were selfish and in love with yourself.

If this was just two people without children who needed to grow up I would be empathetic and post to support your marriage but its not just about you since you had children. 20 years from now the kids might, and i say might, trust you enough to ask you why you left Mom if you do right now jon. You know Jon that your wife has just fallen victem to what human beings have since Satan convinced Adam and Eve God was cheating them with his silly rules. She wants to have it all. You know of course when God asked ADAM, because he left ADAM in charge, why they took from the tree that Adam pointed at his wife and said,"Its this woman YOU gave me!"
God gives us the freedom to make choices and as soon as we make a bad one we blame Him for giving us freedom. Ever whatch Forrest Gump? He was a man limited and forced into second place by society but when Jenny, a girl he cared for all his life came to live with him because she was sucked up by the BS of "free love" and the passion of the sixtys and she needed safe haven he took her in without question. "I'm not a smart man Jenny, but I know what love is". He said that when she was going into town and getting high or drunk with a guy as she thought she was gaslighting him.

I have heard it said somewhere that your children can forgive you of anything except not practicing discipline. You have heard "spare the rod and spoil the child" right? The rod represents the hard cold facts about life. Its not "beat your kids when they make you feel bad". God has not witheld the truth from you Jon. He will take your WW to the woodshed, He will reveal to her how selfish and foolish she is being and if you try to do it for Him you will fail. Your wife needs God to deal with her, not her husband who believe me, she knows is human and weak. If you are going to practice discipline for the sake of your wife and children you will have to get outside your emotions. Your emotions have a place as the appreciaters of actions that result into healthy enviroments. Emotions left to rule will destry you and you know that. Emotions lie Jon. They don't "know" anything. Its simple, you, like Gump are forced to trust God now. "Stupid is as stupid does" You are priveledged to join the human race and fight for what is part of growing up and separating our actions from our emotional responses. Give your heart to God and depend on him instead of some temporary and frail human love. Human love is conditional, Gods isn't.

Like I said before I wouldn't care so much if it was just you and your perfect high school romance that was having problems coming to grips on how selfish and frail people can become when the temptations of life effect us. But you have children. Do you have an answer for you children when they ask you why you gave up on Mom? When they ask you why you divorced her because the guy she is with 20 years from now is such a POS? Or will you let your WW actions dictate how all of your relationships from now on are handled? " I don't speak to my kids cuz, well , its complicated" Will you teach your children that they better not ever get sick or make a mistake? Thats what little kids think Jon. They are simple, they trust you and need you to show them love is not a feeling. That you will set up boundaries and rules to protect them and that you will never leave them or forsake them even if they screw up. Even if they must suffer the consequences of bad decisions you will be there and continue to love them with forgivness and have a relationship with them. You are man enough to suffer with them while they grow up, as your wife needs to now.

My children are much better off tha either my wife or I was when we were thier age. We avoided making them experiance what we went though as children and I will go to my grave without them ever feeling what I felt as a child. They will not understand how painful my experiances were because they are imbedded with the knowledge that both my wife and I, imperfect ppl, loved them and would suffer with them. Mom got sick and acted dumb but they know what sick is and forgave her without enabling her poor decisions. Will you for your childrens sake at least if not your wifes be willing to suffer some emotional pain while you act like you love them? Will you show them instaed of trying to explain how much she hurt you later on? Can you be strong enough to lead in the battle for your marriage and take most of the emotional hits on yourself?

There is no place you can escape to Jon. You will only be fooling yourself if you don't fight now. You have a better chance at building love in your marriage than a lot of ppl have. You have these ppl here as a resource for emotional support while we try to help you. You have God to trust for the consequences of your actions. You are no different than any other human being who has to make choices as life hands them lemons.
In the words of Pete Townsend,

"No crisis, getting burned by the sun, yes its true..
This is no social crisis, just another tricky day for you"

What have you got to lose Jon? You only lose when you run away. I guarantee you God is on your side. All of us weak human beings here are too. Be bold, take a chance on love, you still haven't arrived Jon. Its a life long battle, a marathon, you will be beat up but you will not be alone. We suffer for the ones we love as we draw nearer to the one who loved us first and gave us life. Leave this earth in better shape than you came into it and invest in it with your life before your children.

ok.....
So is it going to be impossible for me to go to plan B since I am the who has to leave?
What am I supposed to do now? I am serious when I say I am starting to hate her. I have contacted the OMW but she has not responded.

What?

Jon, do you just not get this, or are you just that darn dens?

YOU do Not leave without a COURT ORDER saying you must.

DO
YOU
UNDERSTAND?

Jon,

Go get yourself a cup of coffee and sit down and read Sickoflimbo's thread beginning to end. He got excellant advice and followed it. He still has not seen success but he continues to work on it. I believe you will learn much.

God's Blessings,

Say

Please read other threads and re-read yours.

He might just be getting this really slowly guys. God I hope so. To much good advice and time wasted if he is not paying attention.

Jon, The only dumb question is the one not asked but, Your last question has allready been addressed in this thread and countless others all over this forum.
Think before you ask us something. I know its possible that your emotional state of mind has impaired your ability to remember but this is why we ask you to trust us. Then you ask a question that we have been telling you the answer for practically the whole thread.

I'm gonna take a break from your thread a little young man. You will be fine. God bless you sir

Today I took the kids to church, I invited my Ws but she refused.
Yesterday me and the kids spent the day at the park, I also invited her then as well, she refused. We had alot of fun and I took some videos of the kids playing and sent them to her while we were there.
The om has not yet replied to her message she sent him, I'm sure he will unless my message to his wife put a stop to it.

It was my understanding that once you begin to hate your WS it was time for plan B. I am there, yet I have no way to go to plan B since i can't leave.

Jon, is what the board vets saying not getting through to you?

YOU ARE NOT THE ONE WHO IS SUPPOSED TO LEAVE!!

I KNOW I AM NOT SUPPOSED TO LEAVE, and I won't. The OM just contacted me, here was word for word our text conversation.
he wrote "more contact?" he foudn out i contacted his wife. I wrote "I ask you the same" he wrote "you destroying my marriage will only detroy yours" I wrote "you are destroying both our marriages, I want to save mine and you broke the no contact deal" he wrote "you ruining mine does not play well with you wanted to save yours" I wrote "I accept my marriage is over and I can't stop you all from being together but I can and will try with all I have, so here is the question do you want my wife or yours, you will not have both" he wrote "Oh you would be surprised" I wrote "so will your wife be when she sees these texts and the original chat log pics and all, I don't want to play dirty but I will" he wrote " she has seen the chat log and she is not my wife anymore" I wrote "i know for a fact she hasn't because i never sent it, and I'm sure you didn't show her your texts, and since she is not your wife i'm sure you won't mind if I show them to her" he wrote "your anger will not help, again be smart. what will happen now that you made my (wife's name) mad? I wrote "it's not anger, it's a man fighting for his family, you contacted my wife first end of story. my wife considers our marriage over already, I won't contact your wife if you don't contact mine. thats it!" he replied "I'm done talking with you, you have made a big mistake."

Never, never, never THREATEN exposure. Just do it. You are NOT "playing dirty" when you do so either.

And send that chat log to the OMW. I'm sure that she'll be very interested in finding out that the OM plans to keep fooling around with both her and your WW.

they have been texting each other all day long yesterday. me and my WS talked about it and it was her normal WS fog, I explained i was doing it to save our family etc...

I just sent his wife a copy of the text chat between the two of us. I am going to blow this up as big as I can. there was around 70 texts between the 2 of them from yesterday. Whats my next move guys? I will still be doing plan A as usual. I wish she would go file so i could go to plan B. I need his wife's number, the only contact I have with her is facebook and he finds out about it everytime.

I also, just noticed a cool blocking feature on verizon that allows me to block his number from messaging or calling my wife.

another update.
My wife just told her whole family that she is afraid to come home because she fears for her life.....

I called my WS and asked why she would say such a thing she said because you told (my WS best friend) that things are worse now than they ever have been. I said I have shown you nothing but love and care, I have not reacted in anger to anything you have done, this is a whole new low for you to tell this to your family and it really hurts me you would do so. she said
"I have every right to fear for my life, you said things were worse than ever and i remember when you first found out how mad you was and the things you said" I said that day i reacted out of anger, but I am no longer that person, I am close to God now, and I am not angry.

I then said bring the kids home so i can put them in thier bed where they belong, you can stay wherever you like, thats the end of the conversation and I hung up.

Above all this her best friend told me that she plans on getting a phone line of her own, because now she knows I can see her texts.

The thing is, I WANT her to file, I WANT them to kick me out. By them forcing me out I can go to plan B, I have my income covered, I can get free insurance and food stamps once I am kicked out, I will live with my dad in a HUGE house until I am out of school and can make it on my own. I have no fear of her family or her anymore, no one can touch me, God is on my side. Like you said these are small skirmishes in a HUGE battle and I feel that I have won them all so far. Oh and by the way her job offer working with the OM.....DECLINED, muahaha.

I still need advice guys, so please keep it coming.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER leave the house unless ordered!

The false domestic violence charges are the favorite tactic of a wayward wife. Now that she's threatening to pull the DV card, you need to start defending yourself. Here's what you do:

1. Always have a voice recorder going when you are with her. If she protests, tough luck. You are only using it for defensive purposes. Show her and tell her you are taping. If she still goes bonkers after you tell her you are taping the converstion, she will have no arguement to object to the tape being used as evidence.

2. She will try and bait you. Walk away.

3. If she files, and you TRULY didn't do anything, get a lawyer ASAP. Perferably one with a crimminal trial background.

4. Never settle. Go to trial and put the burden on her to prove her case.

5. If the PFA is dismissed after a trial, you will have a nice piece of ammo to shred her credibility in futre litigation.

Be very careful. You being in the marital home is really cramping her affair, and she may do whatever it takes including filing false abuse charges. You cannot let this happen because it will very negatively affect your custody chances. Her telling her family she is afraid of you is setting the table for them to believe her when she eventually may claim abuse. You need a voice activated digital recorder on you at all times. The more you interfere with her affair, the more desperate she'll get. She sounds like she is going to claim abuse in the future, so you need to be ready for it.

Awesome advice.
i just went and got my kids at her moms, she is staying there tonight. she was happy and nice as ever, she kept talking to me. she showed me a new thing she got for her i-pod and was talking to me about how bad the kids were to her etc... Also Psu in my state it's legal for me to tape the conversation without her consent and I already have a recorder.

she is just angry and lashing out because i contacted the OMW now she has her entire family hating me. LOL, after she got so mad about me contacting the OMW about the job, i re-contacted the OMW with what her husband was telling me and I am still awaiting the results of that.

For the record and hopefully last time,
I AM NOT LEAVING MY HOME! Until they legally kick me out I am staying right here, in my home, with my kids, in my bed.

If she starts staying at her mom's quite a bit, she's still contacting OM, and you would like to go to plan B, then you might get your opportunity to file for abandonment. I would document every night that she doesn't spend in the house just to have around for potential future legal battles.

I have been documenting every night she goes out and leaves me home with the kids period. If I was going to file why wouldn't i just file for adultery? I want to go to plan B but how can i? If either of us file I will be the one being kicked out.