TheRoad is judgemental and without knowledge of my situation or data to support his opinion. Marriages have to be what supports the interests and personality of the people involved. I strongly believe there is no cookie cutter pattern for what will make all people happy. As a matter of fact, forcing a prescribed recipe for what marriage should be is a great way to make a lot of people NOT fit the mold and be miserable.

I was in a loving and supportive marriage for almost 29 years. We both have successful careers but made much more time for each other than probably most couples. We had nice dinners out several times a week just the two of us. We both enjoyed supporting the arts and going to events together in our community. We loved to travel together and spent countless hours sitting at home at the kitchen table planning new adventures. We loved our pets and spent hours walking them together. We had a vacation home we would go to on long weekends and hole up together just enjoying being alone with each other. I would guess we invested much MORE time than couples with children can spare to spend together with their added responsibilities.

We did have joint funds we both contributed to for the support of our marital properties and other joint purchases, but I was financially independent well before we married as was he, and there was never even much discussion about not continuing to maintain our own investments and retirement programs. It was not a bone of contention, and as a matter of fact we both were happy the other was well set.

We are childless by choice. When you spend 12-15 years in university getting doctoral degrees, its often a choice you have to make. We both were agreeable on this and have done our share of charitable and volunteer getting your hands dirty work to try to be a part of our community and be involved with programs that benefit children and youth.

On this site and in life, you will find many people that feel they had good marriages, traditional or otherwise, that fell apart anyway. Obviously if having children and combined income worked as a model, you wouldn't have the 50% divorce rate. Marriages of all sorts fall apart.

I think also that our marriage was very good and lasted longer than most. I was lucky to be in such a good relationship for so long. I was not dependent and am glad I wasn't. I see no benefi in being broke as well as alone in my latter years. I don't know what happened to the H I used to have, but its obvious he's gone and I am glad I do not have to stay up nights worrying about what will happen to me. I will be fine.

Not only that, but it seems quite contrary to what Harley himself espouses. One of the striking things about his program is the degree to which it says, children are NOT the heart of a marriage - the two parties are. It even ackowledges that some of its prescriptions - like spending time AWAY from children, or declining to sacrifice the marriage to the needs of one's children - may seem counter-intuitive. The focus of Harley's approach is marriage, which is clearly NOT defined in terms of children at all.

Something I thought was very interesting that Dr. Harley said at the MB Weekend was that he always knew there would be trouble in a marriage when the couple maintained separate bank accounts...

Mrs. W

Maybe if they start having separate bank accounts after years of only joint funds, otherwise would be a gross overgeneralization. I know many people married many years who have their own accounts. Not many adults like having someone looking over their shoulder for every pair of shoes they buy.....

Well, anoher week of no contact. Its probably easier this way than being strung along. H should be served tomorrow. Even if he's livid, I expect to hear nothing from him. This is who he is when dealing with conflict.......he goes into ignoring mode.

At this point, I just want this done. Want to get on with my life without him and not worry about what's going on behind the scenes.

Cleared his stuff from the house this weekend, and unless I hear something from his attorney soon (don't know if he has one), I'll be moving his stuff to storage and having the bill added to his stuff I've paid for since he left.

So very, very true! Emphasis mine. THIS is what keeps independent behavior going and is very destructive to a M.

Well, he could have said also that he knew there would be trouble if the couple maintained joined accounts. If LLL's M lasted 29 years (more than the average M on this forum )with separate accounts and no kids and "selfish career goals", then the same can be said for people with joined account. My H and I always had joined accounts and out M lasted 20 years, not 29.
Also, people who have kids can have them for selfish reasons as much as people who don't- You really can't generalize.
What happened to LLL's H is a change in brain chemistry.
There are several research studies that show a change in brain chemistry in both men and women in their 40s and 50s.
That change leads to poor choices and out-of-character behavior.
This does not justify LLL's H for having an A. He could have seeked medical help or could have shared his concerns with his wife.
But from LLL's description of her M where there spent lots of quality time together and enjoyed eachother, what else can we gather but a chnage in the brain...!
blessing

No, that isn't what Dr. Harley meant. Have you studied the MB program at all, LLL? It is very much about married couples leading INTERDEPENDENT lifestyles...It isn't "adult" to practice independent behaviors that harm your marriage. POJA insures that one spouse doesn't do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of the other...Practicing MB in a marriage is very fulfilling and leads to a deeper connectedness...

Mrs. W

Damn ! I forgot to make poor choices in my 40's and 50's.
Are my 60's too late for this to apply?

Of course these changes are more drastic in some individuals than others, and yes, at 60 you could still go thru major changes.
If interested read
Brizendin, Louann. The Female Brain.
She is an MD and the book cites more than 50 pages of peer reviewd research studies.
blessings

Mixed reviews ... if that means anything.

***edit*** some facts....

The U.S.Census Bureau statistics on marriage and divorce show that there is only a slight difference in divorce rates for couples who have children and those who don't. Not enough to be statistically significant.

Also, several sociological studies of family patterns in the U.S. show that while couples without children have a slightly higher divorce rate, in depth studies show that many married couples with children stay in what they describe as unhappy marriages for the children. What a pleasant way to live....and how unhealthy for the kids. So, if the unhappy couples with children divorced, the divorce rate for couples with children might be much higher.

Also, in my opinion being a productive member of society and having both members contribute to their marriage and household financially while having careers that benefit the community isn't correlated with a ME FIRST attitude automatically.

Again, forcing everyone into a rigid pattern is narrow-minded and bound to fail.

In science it is good to have different results when it comes to studying a behavior or an outcome. This is how progress is made in any field. If we stick to rigid definitions and cookie cutter responses we make very little progress.
All I am saying is, there is research out there that shows a change in brain chemistry with age. This change leads to certain behaviors. LLL's H seems to be falling into this description. Again, seems. I can't be sure of it of course.
Blessing

Well and good.


This particular book, however, is all about the female brain.

I brought this book up since you asked if you still had a chance of change in the brain at 60 and you are a female.
blessing

gee LLL, I am not the one being "judgemental". I agree with Dr. H's "all in marriage" theory. IOW, I would rather have a buyer/buyer M than a renter/renter M.

I wasn't commenting about the M with no children. I was agreeing with TR about the "me first" mentality of a freeloader or renter marriage. I would rather see a couple so vested in their careers not have children.

Until the senility kicks in! *snicker*

Whatever the reason the outcome for the BS spouse is the same. She or he is left alone while WS is with another.
This does not change plan A or plan B. The cause of an event does not change the event.
blessing

From what I hear about how close they were most of their marriage I would agree his brain went south. Well .. its located south now anyways.


Seriuosly something snapped upstairs for him.

Money relates to basic responsibilies we must deal with to live. Once you have enought to live well it doesn't apply to ther marriage relationship for DS and who cares how much each person has?

Some problems no amount of money can fix anyways