W and I have been married 15 years three chidren from 3yrs to 13yrs. W had an affair and I caught her (Oct 2008). She stayed in the marriage for several months until I caught her seeing the man again at which point we seperated. She gave me the I love you but not in love with you I, I was not happy in the M etc etc. Her affair was VERY VERY deep. Soulmate, magical is all the stuff I heard from her. She continued to see the OM after seperation and I kept my distance and did not communicate with her except for the kids. I kept interactions short and made sure my demeanor was light and happy. I finally exposed the A to the OM's W and it pretty much stopped the affair as the OM's intentions came out and my wife now saw it. I have verified No contact with the OM for almost 4 months now but she is still in major withdrawal, now on meds, but doesn't still is so confused about her feelings she had in the affair and the conflict with her internal moral compass. She finally went to confession after a year which I guess is a good step forward. She is opening up more about the affair and her feelings and even has cried on my shoulders a couple of times and thanked me for supporting her after all she has done. I am doing my best Homer Mc donald nw and just agreeing with her or not trying to counter point her when she says something because I know it just entrenches her in her position. The problem is her inability to accept the real truth about the affair is wearing on me. The other day she said the OM did not technically lie to his W. She says things and then takes them back. I want to disatance myself from this but at the sime time I want to be there for her as support since this is something she said I was not good at in the past (she's right). It's just hard! How long does this withdrawal last. How can I help her to see the truth (come one the OM wasn't lieing!!! REally?). My sense is if I recorded all the crap she was saying and played it back to her in a year she would be shocked. Where do I go from here. The Homer McDonald approach has worked well for me during this withdrawal period and it has helped immensely in her feeling more comfortable about telling me what;'s in her head, but WHEN will she start accepting things about the affair? What do I do. She occassionally mentions something about coming back and how it would be easy for her to just get on her knees and beg for forgiveness but she doesn't want to take the easy way. Unfortunately she still needs to get past her feelings about him and the affair. I'm confused and running out of love. Everytime she speaks alien speak it doesn't hurt me but it frustrates me because I lose respect. What do I do?

Hi Floridapad, welcome to Marriage Builders. I'm sorry you have to be here.

This is probably the best site on the Internet for dealing with infidelity.

Before the veterans (and yes, everyone posting here does so voluntarily, and has the experience of adultery backing them up) start lending their ear, a few answers would be helpful.

First, have you read the articles on this site? There is a tab at the top of the page, "Articles" which will open up the vast knowledge of Dr. Willard Harley and company. These articles are all FREE, but without reading and understanding them (after getting the "site tour," you should then read the Basic Concepts) you will not be able to benefit from the advice.

You should also familiarize yourself with the abbreviations. Check the "Notable Posts" forum for a list.

Do your children know about her affair? How about her parents? Where did she meet the Other Man (OM)? Do they work together? Is there still contact? Have the two of you agreed upon NO CONTACT and together worked to put that into place?

Please read as much as you can. We can help you recover.

Again, sorry you have to be here. This is the one club in the world no one wants to belong to. But it's the one where the best help can be found.

Honestly, you need to dig up your original post and bump it back up to the first page, so people can skim through your story. If I remember correctly, you did not do a good job of following the MB handbook.

Based on what you just posted, I would verify that there is no longer contact taking place, and then tell your WW what you told us. The longer she wavers, the more you are considering moving on, so she needs to move in and make a commitment to your marriage, or you will move on. You should be in plan B and she should be begging to come back right now. It's time she made a commmitment. Her living on her own is just inviting OM2 to come into the picture.

Stop going along with her.

Too often, BH's think that a good approach is to be nice, keep the WW as happy as possible, and then they will come to their senses. They seldom do, without some sort of motivation.

This doesn't mean you have to have a knock down, drag out fight, but you have to assert yourself. A way to approach this is that when you talk with her, don't try to debate with her, just say your opinion. If she asks a question about your opinion, answer, but if she tries to change your mind, don't engage in the discussion.

IME, even though what is being said by the WS may be crazy, they usually have an objective for saying it. Most times, it's to justify their behavior. They want you to approve of what they did. If you say nothing, they are going to assume that you approve.

FP,

You can be consoling and HONEST. YOu can be compassionate and HONEST. You could even record what she says, so that someday she can hear it. What you should NOT do is lie to her.

If she says something you don't agree with you need to let her know that you don't.

"I don't share your opinion." is a neutral but effective way of speaking your truth without ending up in a fruitless discussion.

This will take time and frankly you have to decide if you really want her back. I would definitely speak with the Harley's about this and get their opinion.

JL

Thank you all for responding.

Fred - Yes I read many of the articles. Very insiteful. Everyone knows about the affair including employment parents OM's W, friends, everyone except for the children (that is my choice right now.) Although they work at the same school they have no need to see each other and I have been able to verify no contact immediately afyer exposure to the OM'sw. I have my W's Passwords to her cell phone, e-mail, face book, credit card etc etc without her knowledge. The principal knows about the A so she is also on the watchout for contact. She has spoken to the preist at the school (catholic school) in confession so everyone knows. At this point the W really is trying to get past the overwhelming feelings in the affair.

John - I moved out and into an apartment. Yeah I know stupid mistake but for know it is what it is. I did speak to JH and she did not mention anything about forcing my way back into the house right now. I'm beginning to think that Plan B might need to be born but I am trying to make up for lost emotional needs fulfillment prior to plan B. Also, I thought plan B was if the W is still seeing the OM or dating others. My W is doing neither. She is "healing" as she says. Trying to navigate her way through the withdrawal period. I have looked at some of her e-mails and it appears like she is still getting over the other guy emotionally. Trying to process it all. She understands that the A is over but is trying to process it all. Not sure how long you give someone in withdrawal before you say enough is enough.

Rprynne - I see what you are saying. I do have boundaries when I agree with her. I do not allow her to justify her affair or her actions. If she wants to say I was controlling etc etc. I agree, because I was. I see my ways and will not try to go tit for tat.

Just learning - Great advice. Thank you. Some of the stuff she says is so stupid I just let her say and keep it in my head for a rainy day when she is thinking for clearly.

I guess at the end of the day, I am losing respect for her fast. Everytime she opens her mouth about the affair and says stupid things (e.g OM didn't lie to his W) I lose so much respect. She really is trying to get her moral compass back and get past her "feelings" from the affair but I am losing my respect, love and desire....fast. I did speak to JH some time ago but perhaps its time to try again.

I can't believe you moved out and abandoned your children. That was the worst possible move you could have made. You need to move back in your house ASAP.

Yes bad move. I need to talk to JH to see where to go from here regarding making a move back into the house and how to go about it. No attorenys have been consulted and I do beleive my W may want to try again down the road but is still processing everything. Guilt feelings, deep deep depression. She has even spoke to her counselor how to go a bout trying to reconcile. The funny thing is she is talking to her counselor coming up with her perfect scenario of getting back together. She doesn't realize I will not go down the reconciliation path unless she agrees to a Retrouvaille weekend or MB weekend. Right now it's all about timing. Withdrawal sucks and it can be such a rollercoaster. I've seen/heard so much advice about what to do during this period and the only thing I can think of is to let her go through withdrawl, avoid LB's at all cost, and realize fulfilling her needs right now will be on a limited basis because of her state. I'm wondering what others have actually done in my situation (e.g. seperated, W is in deep heavy withdrawal but looking for some emotional support but conused as heck).

The best way to get her through withdrawal is for you to be there to meet her needs that she allows you to meet. If not, you are at risk of her breaking NC or finding another OM willing to meet those needs.

Thanks JMWC - I think you are right. But how does one go about that being seperated (No I can't move back in right now). Its such a strange situation to be in where I jsut I want to lean over and give her a hug when I see her but I let her initiate any contact. She went on a two day cruise with girl friends (yes verified) and before she left she came and gave me a corner mouth kiss and hug. I just held her tightly for about 10 seconds and then said "have fun". Trying to find this balance of not being needy, not being "there" for her all the time yet still be there. We have some form of contact everyday be it a simple text about the kids or a Hi (less frequent). This is where the confusion lies. She does need a bit of space and based on what I can tell of all her accounts she is avoiding all OM's. She truly seems to be trying to get past this guy, her affair and her depression. I'm not sure how to handle this balance. I invited her to an art show the other day but we couldn't find sitters for the kids so they came along. Didn't go well. The kids were complaining etc etc. and it really didn't allow "us" to connect. I don't want to rush this because she will back away. How How How.

Figure out a reason to move back home. How about, "I miss the kids and just can't live apart from them anymore, so I'm moving back in MY home (this is true, right?)." Say your marriage counselor strongly advised it (true as well). Tell your WW that there are no expectations or pressures with this. Then since your around more, you can help around the house, help more with the kids, have more of a chance to engage her in conversation and reconnect. It may be a little awkward and unpleasant the first week or two, but eventually she'll get used to it, and then you'll have your opportunity to fast-track more love bank deposits. You'll never fix a marriage by practicing conflict avoidance, and that is what not moving back in is doing.

As usual you are correct Jim. I have been trying to figure out reasons and may take the plung in a couple of months. She is taking a trip to Italy with the children for three weeks and it would be a perfect time to say " My job is at risk and I cant't renew my one year lease and a month to month is to rich for us to afford so I'm moving back in." I have played out this scenario in my head and I can predict her response right now. She will say " How can you do this to the kids. How can you give them hope like this" Depending on her emotional state she will also feel pressured and lash out at me. It will take more than a couple of weeks to recover. More like a couple of months. I'm not sure if anyone else has done the same. Moved out for a while and then made an excuse to move back in with out the approval of the Wife. How did it go. I would be interested. It could unravel alot of progress. The timing and sequence of all this is mind numbing

Yes, his thread is right next to yours. We told Jonpen to move back in, and he did, and it sucked for a couple of weeks, but then things started improving (that was until OM contacted his WW again). Grow a pair and just move back in. Don't wait 3 months and make the excuse about the lease coming up. Just do it because you can and you should. You don't need the wife's approval. Quit being weak and letting your WW control you. "How can you do this to the kids?" How could you abandon your kids in the first place? You are moving back in FOR the kids. Unless you learn how to stop avoiding conflict and doing whatever your wife tells you to do, you'll never have a marriage anyway. Your WW cheated on your because she had ZERO respect for you in the first place.

Move back in. You don't need to fabricate excuses. Just state the truth. It's your house, you miss your kids, you miss the home, you're moving back in.

Why on earth would you wait two months?

If she says "How can you build up the kids' hope?" just say it's your home too and you belong there for now. You didn't commit adultery and if she is uncomfortable living in the same space as you then SHE should move out. You can express this calmly and without DJs or AOs. It simply is the truth. It's your house, you belong there. If she is uncomfortable she is free to seek another solution, but you are living in your home with your children.

I'd try to accompany her on the Italy trip or get her to cancel it until you can go too. You guys should do all the fun stuff together, not with other people. Who is paying for the trip?

In your first post you said "... her inability to accept the real truth about the affair is wearing on me." It's not up to you to educate her. This is a big fat DJ and probably a SD as well. You can state that you disagree, and then you must drop it. She WILL come around, but not if you're lovebusting (trying to educate her or persuade her or make her "see the truth").

Also she won't come around if she is going on fun vacations without you and if you are not living in the home where you can more easily meet her ENs.

From what I understand she's a spoiled stay-at-home mom that drives around a luxury car, lives in his big house, and goes on expensive trips all on Floridapad's dime while she screws OM and he just lays down like a doormat and moves out so as not to inconvenience her.

This dymanic has to change before you will have any semblance of a marriage. And I wouldn't trust her counselors as far as I could throw them.

She's not going anywhere. She's got it too good with you, and isn't going to give it up, especially now that her "soulmate" is out of the picture. Move back in.

FP, if what Jim said is even close to being on the mark you need to:

1) Quit financing her fun times w/o you (Italy trip)
2) Quit financing her luxurious lifestyle w/o you (move back home)
3) Quit financing her affair (cancel her cell/internet, whatever)

Another dynamic...

The kids supposedly don't know and from their perspective I'm sure it appears that Mom is mad at Dad, Dad did something bad and he's obviously running around bending over backwards to please Mom and she's not forgiving him so Dad had to move out.

Now that the affair is supposedly over (though withdrawal is certainly prolonged since they work in the same building and will inevitably see each other albeit from a distance)...she is just in this mode where she doesn't see ANY possible way for her to feel love for you again. Every WW, in particular, gets hung up on this notion. Problem is....with you out of the house she's eventually going to call it quits FOR YOU. She'll have the face saving ability to say you two tried the last counting 4 months and that the AFFAIR she had has NOTHING to do with your eventually divorce (since it ended so long ago). She'll be telling others she's divorcing because she can't stand hurting you anymore as though she's being compassionate to you.

From the kids point of view...YOU LEFT. They'll buy whatever Mom's selling...especially the "we just grew apart but both still love you" part, even though underneath they'll think it's YOUR FAULT. They need an explanation and the TRUTH...especially the 13 year old.



So...my recommendation is to move back home ASAP. When she references giving the kids fruitless hope, instead of being catty and throwing the affair in her face...tell her you've thought about that and think it's time to tell the kids the whole truth so they will understand that Daddy is coming home to give their mother a chance to repent. Because THAT is the truth. SHE is the one being given the opportunity to reconcile with you THAT SHE DOESN'T DESERVE. I'm betting the "don't give the kids false hope" argument gets squashed awefully quick when it's her butt on the line instead of yours.

Like others said before...you still have the apartment for a few months so she can sleep there if she wishes as it's no longer her place to evict you from your home. You moved home because it's the legal, ethical and moral thing to do and nobody regrets doing the right thing.

You are right to have FEAR...just don't let it cloud your judgment. Do what's right...move home. If it doesn't work out in the end...it won't be because you moved home it WILL be due to her affair and ultimately her unrepentent heart. You'll be so much more satisfied that you did all you could instead of second guessing yourself for moving out AND staying out (which IS a huge mistake you can make right immediately)

Mr. Wondering

FP,

The only advice you ever took from us (albeit many months after the fact) was to expose to OMW, and low and behold that advice was spot on. If you want to help yourself, you need to start listening and implementing what we say. Otherwise, you are going to be stuck in limbo until your WW finds another man to meet her needs (and it will be easier to find one this time because you are already "separated"). You have already been a piss-poor example of how to be a husband for your children.

Whoa Mr Wonder. You gave me alot to think about. Great insight and I can completely see where you are coming from. I'm going to schedule a consult with JH to discuss this. My fear is that she will look at is as being pushed before she is ready. Yes selfish but I know her like the back of my hand. When she gets pushed she fights like mad picks up the pieces later. Runs off of pure fiery emotion. I do plan on moving back into the house despite the inevitable reaction but I do want to clear it through one of the Harley's to come up with a plan.

I do see much progress in the last month and do fear that exploding the situation will knock things back to square one. Funny thing is the other day she said she spoke t her counselor abou the process of reconciliation. She says she wants to do this the right way. Date each other etc etc. I personally think it is BS. She is trying to find that "in love" feeling again and I won't be able to compete with the memories of the feelings she had in her affair. She will have to committ to the marriage before dating. Right?

No, I do not agree here. Floridapad�s W cheated because she has no bouderies and she has not respect or appreciation for a good man. Good man are seen as weak.
She is taking advantage of a good man. She does not deserve him. But of course there are kids and efforts must be made to save the M.
blessing