high alert! I'm threadjacking!

writer1,

communication: I pay attention and comment with words and not a grunt or blank stare or watch tv/etc. These are very old and I made changes around 2001/2002, so bare with me. affection: hold her hand whenever poss., give her hugs, brush her har over her ear, rub her shoulders/feet, brush her forearm (don't ask me why, she loves it and I'll do it), put my arm over her shoulder, [censored] next to her. DS: you name it and can do it better than her, as she was raised by nannies and can wipe down counters with abandon, but everything else is about 60%. family time: gave up hunting with family, gave up fishing with family, gave up triathlons, gave up ALL of my friends (no girls in there, but W had some kind of jealousy toward my friends), don't watch TV unless it's with them (world series, superbowl, olympics etc.), gave up professional lunches/outings, any spare time is with them or I'm literally running, like as in ultramarathons and adventure races which she encouraged me to take up, then started complaining about, but I'm not giving it up... period. I've neve been in this good of shape and I intend to stay fit, sweaty and dirty!!!!

I don't know why sit was censored.?.

This is becoming a bit of TJ. Sorry.

Mud, do you and your W spend time alone doing things together? Do you get in your 15 hours a week of UA time? Do you go out on dates and do romantic things together?

more than 15, but no, like hold I am too far gone at the moment and don't wish to take her out.

If you aren't going out together and doing fun things, then how are you spending this UA time? Remember, it doesn't count if you're doing stuff with the kids or as a family, or sitting in front of the TV. That isn't UA time. So, what to you consider UA time?

Telly, I'm curious..when you say this...


do you literally mean you got him off without him being interested in actually having intercourse? If so, I think that this speaks volumes about the state of your relationship OUTSIDE of SF.

If your H just wants you to go through the motions so he can release his sexual tension, I think he's detached from you. Why is this happening? That doesn't appear to be a medical issue (to me)...that seems psychological.

Telly--refresh my memory--is your H affectionate? I know that I can go 2 or 3 weeks without SF(3 is pushing it) if my H is affectionate (snuggling in bed, random kisses and hugs, etc)...I'm fortunate to have a very affectionate spouse, so even when he's holding out on me, I can handle it. I'm not sure if I would be so happy if he wasn't affectionate. I'd be downright resentful, I think.

You're doing the right thing--you're protecting your marriage by making your feelings known. Good for you...keep us posted. This is very intriguing.

Writer:

FWIW, I think Mud is doing a pretty good plan A.

It seems to me that you're looking for reasons why his marriage isn't improving, but keep in mind, MB has never been an exact science and even Dr. Harley will attest to that.

Actually, I don't really know his story, so I was just trying to get a feel for where he was at.

Does he say why he "can't" do this? If not, do you have any conjectures as to why?

Is he following the policy of radical honesty about his reasons?

Does he lack limbs and digits? Has a stroke paralyzed one or both halves of his body? Is he palsied?

Bubbles has offered some conjectures as to what his thinking may be (e.g., "He has received information that women don't need this,"), but I haven't seen anything from you that indicated what he really says is the reason for this. And being a man I find Bubbles' conjectured explanations to be unlikely and lacking in explanatory power, and even if they were true it seems that a simple assertion from you to the contrary would cure that situation.

Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation, Guideline 2: "Identify the problem from both perspectives."

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3350_guide.html

What is his perspective on the specific question of why he "can't" touch you, try to turn you on, or meet your other requests for sexual pleasure?

Like others have told me here, we can argue until the cows come home on the rightness or wrongness of each side (and I'll fully agree that unless there's something major we're missing, he's pretty clearly in the wrong here), but that isn't necessarily going to get our emotional needs met in the way we want.

I'm mystified and curious about his thinking, here.

I think that men can just have sexual hangups, due to their upbringing.

Most men, I think, want their wives to be LADIES, but some men may have a problem with the idea of a LADY actually wanting and enjoying sex. They seem to think that pleasuring their wives is the same as treating them like a "ho". KWIM?

Hi everyone!

Okay, here goes.

First, yes, Aeri] my husband does also struggle with affection. I think it is all lumped together for him. Physical affection and physical intimacy--it's all physical. It's all hard for him.

Last night, he agreed to talk to a sex therapist. I think he was saying it at first to get me to stop pressing him, but I pretended like he meant it and let myself feel relieved. I hugged him and kissed him and thanked him gently and sweetly, and was kind to him the rest of the night.

Later that night, he read some stuff on the whole issue (a chapter I sent him from Michele Weiner Davis' book "The Sex Starved Marriage".)

I know this because when he met me this morning (he had slept on the couch due to a bad cough he had), he came right over to me and hugged me tightly. He told me he had read the information (twice), and he felt the author really had him pegged.

Her idea is that for the low-libido spouse, often they just have to decide to take some action. And then they end up enjoying it. THat there are some people who have to actually experience some sort of arousal before their mind turns--so they have to put themselves in a position where it's possible.

In other words, try it and see what happens. You might be surprised.

He said he thinks that's what he needs to do... Just lean into it even if he doesn't think he's in the mood.

He said the same thing I've been saying here, which is that he lives so much in his head that he doesn't think that way, generally.

And then he admitted what I also knew which is that he just avoids the whole thing (including affection) because... well, there is a lot of shame for a man who is not typical in the way he is turned on. Shame about the whole thing.

He hugged me about 5 times this morning.

I think that Davis got something right when she talks about how "being in the mood" is not required. At least it made sense for him. I mean, I think he usually also even waits to hug me until he is "in the mood"--which left to his natural inclination (family non-touchy) hardly ever happens!

Something about this seems to have turned his thinking around.

I told him I ordered the whole book (and the book Retread recommended), and I think we're going to start there vs. immediately shelling out the money for counseling, but if there isn't improvement for both of us, then we will go ahead with the sex therapy.

I think someone writing in a way that demonstrates an understanding for HIS perspective may have been therapeutic. I think (suspect) that knowing I needed it, and knowing he didn't know how to give it to me when he seldom feels in the mood, was overwhelming to him.

Now, he sees a way "out".

This has been going on for years. Can you imagine knowing your spouse needs something (and I lump affection in with sex, because like Aeri, I could have been content with affection for a good long while--which is also hard) and feeling like not only can you never give it, but you may NEVER be able to give it? But you don't know why? You don't know why you are different than all the other men described in books/the media?

How painful that must be for him. Because he really does love me a great deal. I know he does.

Anyway, the book should come next week--we're hopefully going on a date on Sunday, and I'm just going to revel in the increased physical affection and the knowledge that we have a plan for now. Books, then (if needed) sex therapist.

Whew!

I am, so glad things seem to be moving forward Telly. I'm so glad you are getting hugged! Have a great weekend.

Thanks, Lurioosi!

YAY! Keep on with this Telly, it takes a while for these men to get into the habit of regular affection, so please help him get into the habit of it. Remember, he may ignore things again and you will have to "hold" him to it. I had to do this with my husband and now we are OK.

You can also try a sex blitz, asking for it a few days, even 4 days a week consistantly in order to get that sexual/affection/touching habit going.

Spending two hours straight in bed on a weekend while kids are at grandmas is not a bad idea either. Bring some foods/ breakfast in there, etc. It is fun eating breakfast in bed and then staying there having sex.

Telly, thanks for sharing your update! I know it's not easy making these changes, and you're doing it anyway, respecting your H enough to know that change is possible, and O&H is the path there!

Did I tell you that you amaze me, Telly? Your bravery is just what I needed to get me ready for my day, thanks!(((Telly)))

Well, that's a very nice thing to say NED!!!

Thank you.

(((((Ned)))))

I appreciate you, and I hope you are feeling supported in all you are facing these days.

Telly,

This thread really is remarkable. I can hardly believe you're the same person who came here all those years ago! You go girl

Thanks Star*fish!!!!

What a wonderful affirmation from one of the *Star* posters of all time!!!!

Sounds like you're on a positive path!

Obviously, you know him better than any of us do, so go forward and see what happens...if it was my H, I'd consider him reading a part of the book a HUGE success.

Good for you!

PS: HI STARFISH!!!