Why are you looking for permission from your counselor to do what you know needs to be done?

nsx, I would not bring it up at all. That will give your wife forewarning and will just ruin your exposure. Exposure is your most powerful weapon in saving your marriage and telling your spouse up front will neutralize this weapon. Forewarned is forearmed. The exposure should happen with NO forewarning at all. Your counselor does not know what he is doing so I would not waste a minute with him, except to get your money back. Your counselor is an idiot.

Dr Harley, on the other hand is a clinical psychologist who knows how to save marriages. He advocates WIDE SPREAD exposures in order to bust up the affair. He wrote the book Surviving an Affair and is a specialist in this area.

But nsx, you don't need permission from a counselor to do the right thing. You have a moral obligation to tell the OMW - not to mention telling her also benefits your marriage in a HUGE way. This woman is being harmed behind her back and you hold that knowledge in the palm of your hand. Wouldn't you want to be told? She deserves the truth about her own life. Wouldn't you be terribly angry if someone knew something that significant about your life and purposefully kept it from you?

Also, your wife doesn't need to be forewarned about the exposure to OMW - FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED...I guarantee you that if you tell her, she will run straight to OM and warn him and he will do his level best to spin the story and keep his wife in the dark...

You do realize that as long as your wife remains in contact that you are wasting your money on counseling, right?

Mrs. W

Here is how deals like that work. O. L. Nelms in Dallas and the Papas' brothers dad pioneered it, without being quite as ruthless as the OM here.

Papas enters into a partnership. The junior partner puts up sweat equity, Papas puts up the building rent and equipment. Rent and equipment come off the top of revenue after paying for supplies and electricity. Junior Partner gets a very nominal salary to live on, often less than a waitress in a restaurant or bar. Profits, if any, are split according to an agreed formula.

Papas put in used equipment at new retail price, often. He also owned some of the buildings where the businesses were established. The debt to Papas' grew each month business was bad.

Actually I know some guys who got really well off working within the Papas deal. I know some who didn't. But Papas always got his equipment back to try again another day, and the cash flow.

Variations of the deal made O. L. Nelms very rich up in Dallas, something he bragged about with signs on freight trailers parked at locations around town. Papas got rich too, but there were a lot of ups and downs until his boys have now struck it really rich with theme restaurants all over the place.

This can be an ethical business deal. But not in this case. Om is a scaly, green monster who deserves whatever happens to him.

______________

NSX, you don't need the "Counselor's permission" to save your marriage or do the right thing, if you own your own manhood.

Listen to what these people on here are trying to tell you, please. Study the material on this site and please, do the right thing by following Harley's methods. THEY WORK!

Larry

I would like to say thankyou to everyone on this site that have taken their time to wake me up. I know what I must do and Larry I hope I still own my manhood. I must admit I have questioned that many times. I think all my testosterone has turned to estrogen. Every time I get so upset inside and angry about the situation she lightens up and I still hang tight. She is deffinetly on an emotional roller coaster with menopause also, I have quit accepting this to justify problems but I wonder if some may have started there.

nsx, would you like us to help you put together a plan?

NSX-your answer to this question should be a HUGE YES. Listen to Melodylane and other vets, they know of what they speak.

I am taking a deep breath and saying yes. I know I cannot continue this, I am exhausted and floundering. We are supposed to go to Boston this weekend for grandaughters first birthday I am praying for a wakeup call for WS. If nothing else it will be 4 days away from OM and be in a familly atmosphere.

Who are you seeing in Boston? Your children?

NSX

Mel said "Us."

She is way better than me in the plans department. I am going to step aside and observe. I do what I do, whatever that is, and she does what she does and she is very good at it. I would guess that others will chime in with their suggestions as well.

Once the plan is developed, I do have a recommendation. With your head on straight and certain goals established, you might want to consider a few sessions with the Harleys. They get more done in a few sessions than most therapists do in years. It is done over the phone and there is nothing wrong with that.

Before I back off to observer and cheerleader role, lemme tell you a quick story.

I was watching a movie many, many years ago. The part of the movie I remember is where this guy comes in to see his mistress and avail himself of her services. He keeps yapping about how his wife didn't understand him, they were in a loveless marriage and it looked like divorce was down the road. He said he would have to be careful so his wife didn't get any of the business, yada, yada.

Then he bolts out the door after refusing cuddling.

Well, the plot thickens. Mistress runs into wife at a bar where wife is holding forth that she is now pregnant, never been happier, husband is like a bull lately, and the business, which was started with a loan from her dad, is doing great.

Oh, it hit the fan. The final was hubby now lives with his you know whats in a mason jar on the nightstand, has got religion and decided that faithful beats the alternative. He is now a model husband.

Mistress learned a valuable lesson, gave up the fantasy that wife would disappear into the sunset leaving her with husband, business, and a life. She went on to find her own life, sadder and wiser.

In other words, she may be a skank ho, but so is he. They both need to get over their illusions and be grownups.

Larry

Oldest son his wife and our grandaughter.

Here is the thing, nsx. Nothing has happened so far to wake her up. Thus far, she has just got more and more entrenched with her OM, making recovery impossible. I suspect your W is stuck in this horrendous situation with the OM and he is probably using their business relationship as leverage to keep her in bed with him. I bet once the initial fury wears off, she is GRATEFUL you helped get her out of there. She is in a horrible situation and I imagine she is terribly depressed, isn�t she? She will appreciate that you took a stand and fought for her, nsx.

My suggestion would be to rip the cover off this infested, oozing sore and expose it to the light of day. That is the only way your marriage can heal, because it is probably the only thing that will get her out of there , away from the OM.

I would do a widespread and strategic exposure. This would infuriate her, but it would wake her up when she is forced to see herself through the eyes of others. It would also put enormous pressure on her and the OM to give up their business arrangement. If everyone knows about the affair, it will make it virtually impossible for them to maintain their partnership.

I would expose the affair to carefully selected targets on the same day. Doing it on the same day ensures maximum effect and makes it harder for the affairees to recover. It also makes it harder for them to pre-empt you and spin the story. Hopefully, your exposure targets will speak to your wife and talk some sense into her. But be assured that exposure will ruin the fantasy of the affair and motivate her to get out there.

Most exposures can be done by phone. Call the person, tell them the basic facts about the affair and with whom. Ask for their advice and ask them to use their influence to persuade your W to end her affair. Targets should be:

1. OMW � she should be first on the list. Meet with her and give her all of your evidence. Explain that the affair will never end and your marriages can never recover unless all contact ends. Ask for her support in persuading the OM to end his business relationship with your wife
2. Your adult children � my suggestion would be to do this BEFORE this weekend so your son has an opportunity to talk some sense into his mother this weekend
3. Other close family and friends
4. Pastor, if any

Now, when you do this, your wife will be furious and will threaten to divorce you �I was going to work on the marriage,blah, blah, blah�� Don�t let it bother you one bit! You have snatched the crack pipe from the crack head, that is all. She wont� be furious after she sobers up, so don�t worry. Just don�t try to reason with her and don�t get baited into a fight.

When she discovers what you have done, I would have a plan for recovery at the READY. Tell her that you are willing to stay and work on the marriage if she ends ALL CONTACT forever with the OM and gets herself legally extricated from this horrendous arrangement. Tell her that you are not willing to stay in the marriage as long as she has contact with the OM. The plan for recovery is this:

1. End all contact for life with OM
2. Start the Marriage Builders program [either arrange for counseling via phone or, the fastest horse, a MB weekend where they assign you a coach and guide you through the program for the next year.

If you exposed to the OMW the day you leave for Boston, it will be harder for the OM and your W to rendevous to put together a story. OM will be stuck listening to his wife all weekend. just thinking out loud here...

Oh, I like that one. I believe that this is not OMs first rodeo.

As a famous comedian once said, "If your wife's not happy, you're not happy. If she ain't happy long enough, you're gonna be unhappy with half your stuff."

The Karmabus is waiting on OM.

Larry

Notice I pulled a Larry and wrote a novel??

Bad Mel!!

No comment.



lry

I am going to start my plan now, what you say makes perfect sense. I need to make a plan which explodes after we get on the plane to Boston, if she discovers my intentions first she may not go. I have shared alot of this with our youngest son. He is in college and not living at home although I usually see him once a week. I never showed him the emails I intercepted but told him they exist. He has also felt the change since OM. When he calls WW she doesn't have time to talk but fails to return calls he has been hurt. He has probably told the oldest boy in Boston as they are very close. I do not believe my oldest will talk to her about it. He is too much like me. I was in Boston for a week helping him with his new home when I returned thats when I discovered the A. No wonder my WW was excited to see me go help him.

nsx, when you speak to the boy in Boston � call and give him all the facts about the affair - tell him you HOPE he will express his displeasure to his mother when you are there. Your children will help if they are honest about their disgust and disappointment. Ask him to be honest about his feelings to his mother. It will help the situation. Sweeping it under the carpet helps no one. I would be sure and tell her on the way up there that you have told the kids. Then when she comes back, she can face the wrath of the OM�s wife. [let her find out that one on her own]

Did you actually TELL the younger one there is an affair? Does he know the truth?

Who else is on your exposure list besides the OMW and your children?

I have not shown the youngest the steamy emails so I don't think he knows how far it has gone. I told him when I discovered OM trying to spend time and impress him. At that time I felt he had to know so he could see through the smoke. To my surprise when I told him he made a comment that he thought something was going on but could not give specifics only a feeling. I forgot to tell you that you are exactly right about her depression. Snooping has revealed an intrest by her for week long spiritual retreats, she has viewed several recently. She has read this book about codependency several times and the OM emails were pushing her strong that she needed to do what she had to to make this business a success. She left her notes out one day when she went to work and like a good BS I read them. The point which stood out was she could not allow her familly to hamper her business. I felt I was history for sure. I forgot to answere about exposing A. When I get to Boston I will call my brother when he tells his wife everyone in town will know. She thrives on everyone elses problems.