Hi, I've never joined a forum before, but feel my marriage is worth fighting for and doing anything I can. I'm very scared and feeling hopeless, so hoping someone out there can offer some help. I guess I will start from the beginning. Apologies for the length.

Well I met my husband 4 years ago. Previously I had dated men that had a strong, confident personality (some Choleric personality traits). I guess I was attracted to their strength, confidence, and ability to state their opinion unashamedly. Their leadership abilities, decision making skills and their independence and ability to just be themselves. I guess these were things I admired as it wasn't my strong point. I guess I attracted men with those traits as I guess they admired in me, being a Phlegmatic/Melancholy, my patience, listening skills, ability to care for others, calmness etc. However, they always say someone's greatest strengths can also be their weaknesses, so the guys I dated usually leaned towards being a bit too selfish, while I tended to lean towards being too nice. I guess till now I never realised that I was being too nice and that it was such a problem. Or at least if it was a problem it surely wasn't as bad a problem as being too selfish. I have since realised that being too nice is just as damaging to a relationship as being too selfish. It's often overlooked though because people often say, "Well if he didn't appreciate all you did for him then he's not worth it". I guess selfishness is a more obvious problem, but "too nice" is just as bad. As the relationship is not balanced.

Anyway, when I met my husband 4 years ago, I felt I finally met someone that wasn't selfish (he is also a Phleg/Mel). Felt it was an equal relationship. Didn't feel like I had to do all the giving. We were very attracted to each other and best of friends. We are both Christians and wanted to wait till after marriage before having sex and in the beginning it was very hard to keep those boundaries, but we did. We had both had sexual relationships in the past, but wanted to wait this time. Then about 5-6 months into the relationship I started to realise it was easier to keep the physical boundaries and I started to wonder if I was losing my attraction for him. It was strange for me because I am usually the opposite and have a very high libido. At the same time I was starting to notice that he allowed people to take advantage of his kindness, but I told myself that it was better for someone to be too nice than be too selfish and it was probably just my unhealthy past relationships that I was used to. Also I didn't realise at the time that I was getting sick with hyperthyroism.

After a year of going out I noticed that it was like a switch was turned off inside of me and I had no desire for sex with him. Which was convenient at the time as we were waiting till after marriage. I was concerned, but I honestly thought maybe God was giving me strength to restrain myself. I also thought maybe because I'm being loved so well, that maybe that fulfilled me enough so I didn't desire sex as much. I was also going through a lot of stress. I just hoped and believed it would probably return when we got married. But we got married and it didn't. In fact just after we got married I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism. When we had tried to have sex it was painful, which is a new experience for me as I have never found it painful. But I realise now that I was not at all aroused, so of course it was painful. When I was diagnosed with hyperthyroidism I thought that must be the reason for the lack of libido.

However, I have been in remission for over a year now and my libido never returned. I was checked out physically and everything is working fine. However, we can't have sex because I'm not aroused no matter how hard I try and its just painful (lubs are not enough). We have now been married for 2 years and I have only just discovered that I think my lack of arousal is due to my lack of attraction for my husband and due to being in denial about him being "too nice". It's hard to be angry and resentful with someone who is just so nice to you and does everything in their power to make you happy. I kept pushing my true feelings down because I felt guilty for thinking such horrible things and thought it was just because I was used to selfish guys and didn't know how to appreciate being loved properly. However, the more I saw him allow people to take advantage of his kindness and the more I saw him avoiding conflict, the more I started to see him as a wimp, demasculated and I was losing respect for him. I probably also hated his people-pleasing skills because I suffered with that myself. What you hate in yourself, you hate in others.

Anyway, I started to feel like I had to take the leadership role in the family, and that if something needed confronting I would probably be the one to do it. Which doesn't come naturally to me as it is. I also felt like he treated me like a princess and put me up on a pedestal, so I doubted his ability to hold me accountable and challenge me. I was becoming bored as well and didn't feel like he was showing me his real self. I was feeling unsafe wondering whether he would have the guts to stand up for his family. He always said he would confront a situation if it really needed it, but it seemed more like he would do it if it was really bad and he had to. But I don't want to live like that. Only confronting things when the situation is so bad it forces you too. I don't feel safe with always taking life the easy way, avoiding conflict as much as possible, peace at all cost!! I respect an assertive life.

I have been honest with my husband and told him exactly how I feel. He was very hurt and I hated hurting him. He is willing to do whatever it takes to work things out, which is great. We are currently going through an assertive workbook together and also receiving counseling. I'm hoping that if we both learn to be assertive then we might be able to meet in the middle somewhere. I might not hate his lack of assertiveness as much if I can trust myself to be assertive, and if I can trust him to be assertive then maybe I will be able to fall in love with him again.

I'm sorry this has been such a long post. But I was wondering if anyone else has been were we are and maybe are on the other side? It is such a scary feeling losing your attraction for your partner. Is it possible to fall in love again? Its hard to imagine from this position. Also, I lost my attraction so soon into the relationship. Is that a sign that it might not be possible to fall in love again as I fell in love with who I thought he was instead of who he was? This might be a silly question, but most people I know seem to marry their opposite personality i.e. a Choleric marries a Phlegmatic, a Sanguine marries a Melancholy. My husband and I are both Phlegmatics. Is there any hope for us? Are there any Phlegmatic couples out there who are happily married and in love? Divorce is obviously not an option, but the thought of a loveless marriage is also scary.

Thank you for your help xxx

Hi Aslee, welcome to MB. YEs, there is a lot of hope for your marriage! Here's the link to the articles about overcoming pain during intercourse. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5049a_qa.html

Have you read the Basic Concepts about Emotional Needs and Love Busters?

Hi,
Thank you for your encouragement and that you think there is a lot of hope for our marriage. Thank you also for the links. I have read the "Pain during intercourse" one and also the Basic Concepts one about Emotional Needs and Love Busters. We will definitely put them into practice.

We are both actively working through our problems and reading a lot. It is so hard to imagine that love feelings do return once they have turned to just friendship/brother like feelings. I don't know anyone personally who has been through what we're going through, so that is why I wanted to join this forum. I feel quite isolated, so was hoping there were people out there that could relate to my story and share their story with me. Whether they are going through it currently or are on the other side and can offer some hope that they made it

Thanks again for the links!!!

Ashlee, I encourage you to take a look around, you may find a lot of stories that you can relate to, and a lot of strengths you have that you may want to build on. Are you two getting 15 hours a week fun UA time in?

Actually, I think UA time is something we need to improve. I think we let our busy lives get in the way. So when we had a weekend free, we'd end up just chilling out, or catching up on work around the house. Gardening never seems to end and neither do the dishes I guess we did fall into that trap of seeing each other coz we live with each other and thinking that's enough. So we are planning to try dating each other again.

I will have a look around the site to see if I can find any encouraging stories. I did try to have a look before, but haven't been able to find a story where someone has fallen back in love again. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough. So I will give it another go now. Thanks! xxx

There's a search feature you can type into "not attracted to" and read those posts.

Many of us have fallen back into love, but then, we were in love with our spouses before they were our spouses.

And I'm wary a bit when I hear this (though you expressed yourself well), because when folks go into a wayward state of mind, they rewrite their marital history and many, many (almost all) say what you say...that they never felt attracted to their spouses.

Which isn't true, yet still is what the poster experiences.

I didn't know if you knew that or not. It's a trigger phrase for those in EA's even if they only made up some unknown guy/gal in their heads.


If you were very attracted, you can be again. In part, build the best of friends more...do a lot of RC time, do what you did when you first met...see him with new eyes, for he is new, everyday, and you may write him up in the same way and not experience him as new, someone to be discovered.

The whole premise of MB is that you can fall in love with your spouse over and over again...and I don't know how you could overcome your biggest LB to him...which is not working on being very attracted to him...not doing your part, own your own feelings as a result of your own actions.

When you focus on acting from love, delving into your deep gratitude, admiration, respect and acceptance of this one man who vowed to you and has kept his vows, even when he did not FEEL like it...see all the ways he acts to meet your ENs today, and how he doesn't LB you in ways you hated from other guys...

then you can fall in love and attraction with him...

You were radically honest with sharing your beliefs...that you were never attracted to him...even when at first, you were. He was hurt to the core and it seems like you truly do understand that. So own up to your two hearts, your two minds...you were attracted to him in the very beginning...what was he doing/not doing then? What were you doing/not doing then?

LA

Hi LovingAnyway, Thanks for your post. I was wondering if you would be able to explain to me more what you mean in your quote above? Sounded interesting, so was hoping you would be able to explain more.

Thanks Ashlee

Wayward= wayward spouse. Spouse who is actively persuing the addiction of an affair. Could be a physical affair, or it could be an emotional affair.

For all intents and purposes, around here we define "affair" as any relationship with a member of the opposite sex in which our most important emotional needs are met. So having regular conversation with a guy would constitute an emotional affair. If that is going on in your life, then you need to end the relationship, complete no contact ever again, before you even attempt to build romantic love with your husband.

Even if your husband knows and approves of a friendship with the opposite sex, you still need to end the relationship with complete no contact, because it is that relationship that is draining your love bank and preventing your DH from depositing enough love units to be able to meet the thrshold for romantic love.

Does that make sense? And vets, if I'm explaining it wrong or imperfectly, please clarify!

Ashlee...

Pretty much what Think said...in answer to your question.

I'll go further and give you the statement that crystallized a "wayward state of mind" for me to recognize in myself...

On MB, Gimble said: An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

So the words you used, about never having been attracted to your spouse, not when you met, dated, married or now, can be real and valid, or a result of the above formula in some way.

And for those of us who've been through the experience of our spouse having an affair, or ourselves, those words trigger us back to when a lot of crazy thinking went on, especially changing our history of us not being attracted...

when in reality, we were and we weren't...and we were again...and then we weren't again.



Which is why falling in love with your spouse (and I hope you'll ramp up the fun stuff for the 15 hours UA time starting right now) brings back the attraction.


It's easy when they allow others to take advantage of their niceness, which affects you, too.

Change "nice" in the above quote to "respectful" or "loving" and see if that changes anything in you.

Do you love the way you love? What if you looked at your H as someone brand new today, someone to get to know, right now, and not make judgments about? Does he know you deeply and truthfully? Do you know and share with him your feelings, thoughts, beliefs and perceptions daily?

What you hate most about yourself, fear most for yourself, love, like and delight in about yourself...knowing and sharing those answers is an act of intimacy...and when you act intimately, the feelings will follow.

God made you both, equal and equally loved...for you to grow side by side in one union...focus on growing...and when you hit resistance in yourself, know that's a growth spot just waiting to happen.

Have you done the questionnaires? How high is SF on your H's EN list? Have you been using your creativity together as well as your dedication to keep meeting this EN for him?

LA

Hi Sorry its taken a little while to respond, and thanks to both of you (Think and LA) for your info on EA.

I definitely do not want to take that path. My life is painful, scary, confusing, heartbreaking enough as it is without adding an A to the equation. I've witnessed the devastating effects of an A and I just do not want to put my H, me or our friends and family through that. I don't judge those who find themselves in that situation. I judge the situation as wrong and a bad choice made by them, which causes extreme pain to their partner, but I do understand that many good people find themselves having an A due to being in such extreme pain or hopelessness. It's not something they grew up thinking they would ever do, but hurt people, hurt people.

We have been going on more dates, which have been great and we are both going through counseling. My H is really trying and so am I. Tonight I am a mess though. It's like a roller-coaster ride. One minute I believe that it's possible and I would become attracted to my H again in the future, or even have hope that maybe I can cope with a marriage that only has friendship feelings. But then there are days like today when I lose any hope and feel so scared. Scared that I will never be able to be attracted to my husband again or cope in a marriage where there is only friendship feelings.

When it comes to SF I think I have an aversion as well as pain. I have tried, but I think it's making things worse for me. I think I remember reading in Dr Hartley's article on the subject of pain during intercourse or aversion that it's best not to try and force things or it could make things worse. To wait till the woman feels aroused. My H is aware of this and understands. I am getting checked out by a doctor to rule out anything physical just in case. I haven't done any of the questionnaires yet, but will get on to it.

I honestly don't understand how I could have become so repulsed by my husband sexually. I'm just trying to hold on to the fact that in the first 6 months or so of our dating I was very attracted to him. I mean I've been in relationships in the past where they have not always met my EN's, but I never stopped being attracted to them. Or at least I thought this might be something my H and I would go through after years of marriage and kids etc, where life gets in the way. I didn't expect to go through this so soon. Hopefully my counsellor will be able to help me figure this out. Sorry for my ignorance. This is just the first time I've ever experienced anything like this and I'm in so much pain. I know its not all him. I'm trying to play my part in fixing what's wrong in me as well.

Well thank you for letting me pour out my pain. I know other people have gone through worse situations than me, but this is still so very painful and scary for me.

Ashlee

Hi Ashlee,


The good news is, if the feelings were there before then they can be rekindled. This site and the people on this board can help you and your husband work this out.

Our situations are a bit different (I never had any sexual attraction for my ex, not even while dating) but here is an excerpt from someone else's thread (on another forum) that provides hope:

Thanks for your encouragement DaisyTheCat2. That quote about the step-mom is also encouraging.

I've been trying to also read through others posts to see what other people have been through and if I can relate.

I'm so torn. I've figured this out 2 years in to our marriage and I want to give it a chance to become a brilliant marriage. I'm so hoping things can be rekindled, but I also don't want to ruin our lives and be divorced decades down the track, with kids, and blaming each other for wasting each others time. I've read so many angry posters saying things like, "if you don't love him then you should set him free and give him a chance at happiness", or "don't be so selfish....you've wasted so many years of his life when he could have been having loving sex with someone that appreciates him!"

Ignore those posts, Ashlee, they're not MB.

With all due respect, there ARE some "Regular" MB posters who DO say those terrible insensitive things on a somewhat regular basis, especially with regard to SF. I don't know what their motive is, but it does really upset me, because people come here for help, not to be berated.

Ash, the best thing and MB is that it gives you a real shot at "knowing" if you gave it your all instead of getting divorced and wondering if you did the right thing.

Just because someone is a regular, it does not mean they know what they're talking about. What do you mean by 'all due respect'? I use it to say, "You don't know what you're talking about, but I'm going to give you a chance to clarify."

Thanks Canwemakeit and Thinkinitthru!!! I think I really needed to hear you both say that today as I've been in tears feeling so guilty after reading some of those angry responses, and panicking feeling like I need to make the right decision today before I stuff up anyones life. I'm trying just to focus on doing the best I can today, and not being overwhelmed by the future and all those "what if" statements.
Thank you again
Thinkinitthru - you are right, I definitely need to know I've given it my all.

Hi Ashley

Welcome to MB

Have you read any of Dr. Harley's books yet?

If so, which ones?

If not, then I would suggest, "Fall In Love, Stay In Love" as a great one to start with. It outlines and covers the entire MB Program in one book, which is why I recommend it as a great place to begin reading.

Ashley, when my wife and I went to the MB Weekend together Dr Harley said something to us that was very interesting. He said some of the best marriages he has seen started as arranged marriages. They had no attraction and no history prior to the wedding...... They developed a romantic marriage by practicing naturally what he developed in his program as a recipe for success in marriages.

So yes, you can learn to have a Romantic Marriage. IMO, The Marriage Builders Program would be a perfect fit for you.

The very first thing you must do if you want to be successful is agree to spend 15+ hrs of UA time together meeting each others top 3 ENS in this time together.

Dr. Harley says that if the feelings of love are not there it may be necessary to spend upwards of 30 hrs of UA time together in the beginning.

My brother was living with his girlfriend and found that in the last few years of their relationship he had become numb towards her. Sometimes looked at her and only had friendship feelings. I guess similar to what I'm going through. She had wanted to get married for a long time, but he was scared of marriage. Anyway, it all finally came to a head one day and they took a break from each other. In the first couple of weeks my brother seemed to not mind that they had broken up (almost relief). But now a month or so later he has fallen back in love with her. He said he had time to think and realise that all his fears about marriage and kids were unfounded (he had been to counseling during their marriage, but felt it hadn't helped). He felt that the time apart from her, the pressure off (and maybe the fear of losing her) helped him to think more clearly and maybe see all the good in the relationship. But it was like the switch went back on in him.

What is this phenomenon? Man I wish it was that simple for me. Like a nice slap in the face, wake up call (not that I want to break up to achieve this). I've read other posters say the same thing, that it took them breaking up before they were able to fall back in love again. Is it because they are no longer surrounded by the negative things they felt in the relationship, so that the positives start to shine through again? Or is it something else entirely? Any thoughts?