The best thing I've read here in a long time.

My H had two A's.
My H had a VLTA that was very emotionally entrenched.
I went through four YEARS of false recoveries.

We are recovering. He is doing the hard work after years of hardening his heart.
There is often hope. Things can get better.

One caveat: This is costly. It isn't rainbows and butterflies. The duration of pain that I went through left a lot of damage and it is hard, hard work to get to personal recovery after all that. There are good and wise reasons why most recommend that a plan A be short.

But on good days, I think that God can heal even me.

Krazy's attitude is completely understandable. Had I walked in and seen what he saw, the coroner would have been called in. I have a baseball bat near the bed in case of intruders. Just because I hit in the .180 range back in the day doesn't mean I couldn't have connected with Pond Scum several times. Hard to miss a POS that big. His head would have been treated like a pinata. Wouldn't have touched her...but him -- whole 'nother ballgame.

Having said that, you can't make blanket statements. There is no one perfect solution for everyone. Circumstances are different, and you have to adjust approaches to account for that fact.

It's been a while, but if I recall, Krazy's XW wasn't willing to do certain things that would have been necessary and retreaded into WW ways toward the end of things.

He did all he could, and given the circumstances of discovery, it would have taken a miracle for R to truly occur.

Can anyone recall a fully recovered R when the BS walked in on the WS and the OP? Ever?

One thing I wanted to point out as encouragement to any newbie BH's reading this thread. There's been a lot of chatter here about it being harder to extract a WW from an affair than a WH. I agree with that assessment. Most WH's don't want to get divorced whereas most WW's divorce is an consideration.

HOWEVER, IMO, once extracted WW's are generally better at recovery and more willing to work the program. They are more willing to be open about the situation, discuss it, make changes, etc. Whereas, FWH's want to sweep everything under the rug and not discuss it or really change. Don't believe me...notice that there are 10 times more FWW's on these boards than FWH's.

In addition, just because more WH's end their affairs and return to the marriage doesn't mean that they are more likely to creat a MB marriage of extraordinary care. Fact is...men generally have more to lose in divorce (money..kids) and stay with no intention of changing.

Thus...my best estimation is that BH's are MORE likely to achieve a fully recovered MB marriage of romantic love and extraordinary care in the long run (the ultimate goal of MB btw) despite being at a disadvantage at the outset breaking up the affair.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - btw...there was a list of items earlier that I think SDCWman posted that I could have checked off 3 1/2 of 5. My situation wasn't a good one at all and yet we still recovered. Point being there is no way of knowing up front and, IMO regretting "trying" is easier to get over than the forever unknown regret of not trying.

What it comes down to, is you have to make an effort and give it your best shot.

Not for the WS, but for yourself. If and when you throw in the towel, you have to know you tried. Wondering "what if" down the road is another form of torture.

I only know of one other time the BS walked in on the WS & OP, so I can't speak to that question since I don't have anecdotal evidence.

Krazy is well within his rights to refuse to continue with WW after seeing what he saw. That's not my issue. My issue is that he is on a marriage building site declaring that he believes, as a survivor of an A, that all marriages touched by A's need to end in divorce.

His words, being presented as his "opinion" and then immediately as his "advice":

"This is only my opinion(emphasis mine), and I wish I would've taken my own advice (emphasis mine) years earlier.

How should you deal with your spouse's affair(s)? You should divorce them asap. Period. No second chances, regardless of finances, kids, etc. Sure, there are some positive stories of reconciliation on Marriage Builders, but this place is not an accurate cross-section of real life. No matter how much you love your WS, no matter what they promise, odds are that they will either cheat again at some point, you'll be stuck in mediocre-at-best marriage, or both."

This is not the forum for such a slash and burn approach to relationships. I am suggesting that he move to a Divorce Support forum, where he may be better equipped to dispense advice and opinions based on his D experience.

You COULD argue that the imagination is worse BUT since you have never experienced the actual act of your H boinking OW it wouldn't go very far........

You cannot judge which is worse without experiencing both......

As far as those wanting to argue about Krazy's WW trying to recover, well, I personaly never truly got that impression, even WHILE he was saying otherwise. As far as her earning the "F", in MY OPINION, had she truly earned it then she wouldn't have been emailing ex-boyfriends with sexual content while he was hardly removed from the home....

Krazy's WW a FWW??? Not by my standards.....

Krazy,

I told you this before, the very first post I ever read by you my first thought was, "What an a$$....". Your resentment and anger was very prominent (the first post I read was not your first post ever....). Then I learned more about you and what you had experienced, all while being in the midst of my Hs affair, and began to really admire you.

The first post on this thread, while I don't agree with all of it, it not so anger filled. It sounds as if you made some peace with your decision to divorce.....something you definately didn't enter into lightly. I pray you continue on you journey and find the answers you seek.....I wish you well

not2fun

Then get over it Pepperband. Krazy is not longer answering this board so I guess he got the message.
We are here to support one another and Krazy might have just worded things wrong but he made some good points.
It is not that good to respond to anger with more anger.

blessing

Not-
You are correct that I don't have two different D-day discoveries to compare to, but I will say that, horrific as it may be to walk in on the act, it can't be much worse than, say, the conception of an OC or the passing along of an untreatable STD...
And there are plenty of marriages on here that survived those incidents that could be called "greater than the garden variety."
Just sayin' it's too easy to lay the whole thing on him "walking in on the act."
Let's ask this, Krazy--what if, instead of walking in on the act, you discovered a stack of love notes, lingere, and sexy photos? Would you have had an easier time, in your estimation, of getting over this with your M intact?

I think you're missing the point Atena. Pep and others have called it irresponsible for Krazy to tell newcomers to just divorce. How would you have felt, when you came here, new and vulnerable, just to be told "no one ever gets over it, so you should just D?"

ONe could argue that you've endured a lot--so why not just quit? Because you think there is a chance, right? Krazy shouldn't tell people they have no chance, because that's simply false. And dangerous.

Who is Krazy supporting when he comes here and says:

Telling RECOVERED people they are "deluded" and/or dishonest is not supportive, it is disrespectful and false.

I believe that Krazy should tell people whatever he wants. This is an open board and it is good to get different opinions. People who post here for help will certainly have the opportunity to be told that D is not the only solution.
My H had 2 A. I should have let him go after his first, but we had a false R and now he had a second one. Fatal one.
I have been going thru this sh"t for 6 years now....if someone would have told me to D after the first A I would have not listened.
I am not willing to D after the second A either.

But look at LadyLong legs, she D right away...it really depends on the person and what they are willing to put up with.
I do not beleive anything Krazy says will effect a BS spouse decision because that very BS is going to get lots more MB talk from all the rest of the posters here than Krazy could possibly post on his own.
Maybe Krazy is ungrateful, and that is not good. I do not like that. But he is entitled to his opinion. My 2 cents
blessing

Krazy doesn't even believe what he says. He says

Yet just a few months ago he commented


What happened to him was unfair, and his being traumatized is understandable. But he remains very conflicted on the subject, that is clear. His original post on this thread was an attempt to provoke support for his divorce decision and to cover up his true feelings towards divorce.

Tough thread to keep up with.



I think this is a slam dunk Mr. W.

I agree he is entitled to his own opinion, but he is not entitled to his own set of FACTS, nor he is qualified to decide what is best for anyone other than himself. He is not qualified to tell others their marriage is "not worth it." It is simply a FALSE ASSERTION that those who are in recovered marriages here are "deluded."

And sure, he can come here and tell people they should dump their WS and that it is hopeless, but others can tell him that he is WRONG.

Atena, if you don't think people will take advice from posters here, why do you post? I know for a fact that many M's have been saved as a result of the great advice received here.
If there were an OP on here suggesting someone go out and cheat, do you think s/he is "entitled to their opinion?"
Huh-uh. No way, pal. Just peddle that stuff somewhere else.
We are allowed to disagree on this board. I certainly don't disagree with everything Krazy says, and can see a lot of myself in his story, but that doesn't mean I can condone what he says when he makes a blanket statement that "all BS's should go to plan D."
What if I came on here and said, "All spouses of someone who travels internationally should go to plan D because all that travel will eventually lead to a D." Could be, my personal and anecdotal info tells me this is the case, but I still am not doing anyone any favors in doing this.
What if based on my experience, my H, and every other man who ever cheated on me had brown hair? Would it be appropriate to say, "divorce your H if he has brown hair?" No. So if someone comes on here with blanket statements, he may get flamed for it.

I have a WHOLE trunk full of Girl Scout cookies..... Which variety floats your boat sweetie????.....

mmmmmmm.....
girl scout cookies.....