You are doing fine. Good for you! He needs to be willing to write the NC letter, for you protection.

Quick update as SO appreciate all the members who have taken time to give advice to me.
I have been spending lots of time together with my WH including SF almost daily - I am initiating (never him yet and he is very cautious but then enthusiastically responds eventually).
Still no formal NC - not yet committed to official reconciliation but no evidence of breaking NC he put in place with OW verbally days after DD.
He seems much more depressed now but being much more open about feelings and answering my questions about A (which I try to avoid discussing most days).
One of the huge issues for us is that I was not doing what I needed to manage my depression - huge issue for both of us as ironically I am health professional who specializes in helping others manage this but didn't practice what I preached - my burn out from graduate school was what started us down the path of being vulnerable to A as I have not been a worthy spouse for years and he was amazing until gave up on me one year ago during one of my workaholic binges and then shortly after got into A.

Question: Am I having an A with my own husband? Am I coming on too strong with the SF even though it is his #1 need as per the ENQ - I feel the urge to be with him everyday now and I am not faking it - but he is really confused by my desire for him given my historical lack of libido and awkwardness (I feel like free woman now, also exercising and have dropped ton of weight which has had really positive impact on my ability to do SF for myself and him). He says that SF is double edged sword for him as feels amazing in moment but afterwards hit with incredible guilt about what he has done to me via the A and so scared he is "leading me on" if he doesn't end up falling back in love with me and can't officially reconcile. He is sleeping in different room from me and apparently spent all night awake tossing and turning in confusion after one of our SF sessions just before bed (I went to him after he had already gone to bed). I have told him I am willing to risk rejection for the possibility that I can be the type of wife he deserves and the chance for us to fall in love again. Seems like improvement to me as last week he said after SF was hit more with resentment when seeing me become the kind of spouse and person he knew I truly was underneath all my depression, moodiness, apathy and lack of effort. Also had been saying he was really angry that another man might get the new and improved me if we don't make it work and hurt that he wasn't worth making the changes for all the years despite all his attempts to reach me. Is it good sign he is feeling more of the guilt even though anger and resentment still also there? Just need to know I am doing the right thing and should stay the course vs. is there anything I should be doing differently or in addition?

PS: told him again yesterday why NC letter so important and we discussed the need to keep talking about this to negotiate given that I feel so vulnerable without it even if we haven't officially reconciled - hope to report good news real soon but suspect it may be a while. Snooping but nothing to find so far so have to trust his word that NC for now on either side.

Hoping our marriage is the most amazing phoenix from the ashes if we can stay the course. It is hard but my WH is so worth it - I finally see him for the amazing husband he has been all these years up until the A. Much love and compassion to all the other hurting souls out there brave enough to fight for R despite an A.

Thanks for dropping in and giving us an update. It sounds like you're doing very well at the moment. Recovery is a long hard fight and you will have on-top-of-the-world days and down-in-the-dumps days. Just keep your eye on the long range target and don't let either of them sway you off course.

In other words, keep plugging along even when you feel like you have the world by the tail and there's no need to work so hard at recovery. And know that bad times will come but they will just as surely go, and they are not the end of the world nor do they mean you are destined to fail.

Kudos!

Well timed words - after several good days when I felt strong, hopeful and grounded I have re-entered the emotional meat grinder.

After really nice SF in morning he was more interested in talking last night than SF and gently said it is a bit overwhelming to have me coming at him morning, noon and night so asked me to be a bit more balanced (I tend to be all or none person which has been major LB over the years as he never knew what to expect so extreme behaviours on my part scare him). He said so glad he came back as giving him some "resolution" - didn't/couldn't expand on exactly what when gently asked but talking about his thoughts and feelings doesn't come easy. This has sent me into a tail spin as so scared he is here to just save a friendship not a marriage (despite SF most days in past week and really good communication). He is way more tender in last few days, our conversation (one of my top EN) is really improving and plans for dinner and drinks tonight. Still scared out of my mind that he is preparing to say "I love you but just as a friend" like he did in first few days after DD. Also waiting for his cell phone bill to confirm NC and hard to be paranoid as several days late - I was able to get his confirmation that it hasn't arrived yet with some other rationale so he would not guess why I want it - he isn't aware that I know her cell phone number. So hoping no evidence of contact and mail due to arrive in next hour so really rattled today - my nerves are frayed!

Another follow up question.
I had cut of contact with the OWH and suspect him to be a bit unstable (but understandable given that he has known about A for 10 months and didn't expose until Feb 15 2010).

Last communication I had with him several weeks ago I told him my marriage over and didn't want contact with him anymore and he said he has hope for his marriage and wants to save (but hasn't exposed to anyone other than me and her parents from what I know - e.g., their pastor who is counselling them doesn't know about PA). the OWH has no idea I am now trying to save my marriage. Should I reestablish contact with him via text with something like "decided to save my marriage but conditional on absolutely no contact so please let me know if you have any hard proof they are back in contact in anyway".

still hoping to get some advice on whether I should re-initiate contact with the OWH in case he gets proof WH and OW have been in contact - please see my prior post.

the advice I am getting here is getting me through one day at a time
today is especially hard because I keep ruminating that he is/was in love with her
if I focus on my plan I feel better so will wait for advice from the wise
thanks in advance for those who take the time to respond to me

Phoenix, yes it would be a good idea to CALL the OWH and compare notes. Additionally, if your H will not agree to end his affair and commit to the marriage, I would go into Plan B. You have every right to demand he quit all contact and should be doing this.

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

Hi there,
Your story when I read sounds like mine a bit, husband had an affair and wanted out of our marriage, the minute I said okay, it was like he changed his mind and wouldn't leave, I worked a great Plan A for about 3 months, he has even gone on a vacation with me, in the beginning he wouldn't even touch me. but I did ask for hugs when I was upset and he willing did that for me, that little bit of physical togetherness and me accepting my blame in the marriage breakdown has changed his out look, it was very tough to be patient with him, I wanted to fix things like now......but I did and I knew he didn't really mean he wasn't in love with me, he would have left the first day I found out if that was the case.
We are 3 months out now and he is living with me and he is saying he loves me now and doesn't want us to separate. I also decided to have sex with him and it was mostly me in the beginning but now he is the one who iniates more than I do.
He told me he has feelings of concern for the OW but he isn't going to ruin his life and our marriage for that relationship, he is in the process of ending things now.....No Contact has been in place since I found out in Nov. She won't accept the fact that they won't be together, he said he made it clear to her that there would never be any chance for her to be with him now or in the future, he said that he and I were going to work things out for us and our family......
I thought he was a goner when I first found out, he was so closed off from me the month before I found out, I think he never thought I would just say if you want to go and start a new life with someone else then go......
You see it is not really what they want they want a good relationship with us and you seem to have given your husband that, so have I and I think they are grateful we have taken the attitude we did, instead of getting mad and hurt we focused on fixing the problems, by the way I seem to have a bit of the wanting sex more often then I used to, I had a realization of what I was losing and knew that part of that was my fault.....
It kills me that there will be someone else who owns a little piece of him but I guess it's no different than a first love....
no one is perfect and no one knows what the future holds, but for right now I feel good that my husband and I have re-connected and living through something like this is devastating, and an emormous burden on everyone emotionally.....
I hope we can make it......he told me he knows how much he has hurt me with all of this and he would never hurt me like this again, that I can believe him and trust that he is a man with integrity, he says he lives with a lot of guilt for what he did to me, his boys, the OW and her family.....he regrets everything and wishes he could just turn back the hands of time , he has cried over this probably more than I have.....

Jessi - your post really helps me stay the course and keep to the plan. I hope both our marriages make it. My husband is definitely living with the guilt everyday but doesn't tend to cry (very stoic) so sometimes I worry that he doesn't feel as bad as he says he does.

Melody - I am so scared to contact the OWH again but will rally the guts over the next few days. Do I tell my husband or keep it quiet for now as part of snooping?

I do feel pressure to contact the OWH for my own protection without a formal NC done yet. WH has ended the A - after DD he met with her in person to tell her it was over and he wanted to give us a chance (who knows what was actually said - he did admit they had a final kiss - arghh!!! if I only I knew about MB before this happened).

Now I know about MB and have all the books I am still waiting for the official NC letter to be done - he has read ending affair articles on website and understands principles.

For now will keep working full plan A with meeting his needs to the max for now but my feelings will start to shift if he doesn't fully commit to R rather than the informal see where things go approach we are in.

Will bring it up again every few days even though he just lost his job yesterday - I still expect him to do the difficult immediate work to save our marriage.

I will keep checking back for all your advice and will post updates as things happen

Tom:

Now you can do what you believe it is your duty to do; take care of your wife to the end of your day's together. I feel that God has blessed you.

Larry

P, your feelings will shift if you endure this state of limbo much longer. Dr Harley only recommends Plan A for about 3 to 4 weeks for women and then he recommends a separation.

If you are willing to take him back after the despicable thing he has done, an expectation should be that he commits to working on the marriage.

But it is up to you to express that expectation. If you lower the bar for a wayward, you can expect that he will live DOWN to your standards. Not setting any expectations on your reconciliation cheapens you and does nothing to recover your marriage. I sense that you feel like you have won something by having him there. You have not and I would not accept that if I were you.

You need to raise the bar, my friend. Stop enabling a cakeeating wayward. Sit him down and tell him you are not willing to stay in the marriage as it is or as it WAS. [as it WAS led to the affair] But you are willing to give him a chance if he works on restoring the marriage. Under those conditions, YOU WILL CONSIDER RECONCILIATION. As it is, he does not believe you even HAVE any standards. You need to disabuse him of that notion.

Hand him a list and say, this is what it will take to recover our marriage:

1. Send a no contact letter to the skank � that is a good will gesture to me
2. Commit to going through the entire Marriage Builders program
3. Affair proof our marriage by practicing complete transparency and eliminating the conditions that led to the affair
4. account for all his time


Raise your standards off the floor, Phoenix.

I would tell him. Be loud and proud! And be sure and tell him you will be in WEEKLY CONTACT with the OWH to compare notes.

I would give the OWH all your #s and get his agreement to report anything suspicious.

Melody - you gave me the shove I needed.
Just sat down with WH and gently explained that it will be 5 weeks since DD on monday and still no NC.

Explained why I need this in place and that don't want him to leave, want to reconcile/save marriage, be the type of partner he deserves and that I know he can be an amazing husband to me (because he was until he gave up on me 1 year ago and eventually started A).

He looked shell shocked and looked super frustrated. Then said he can totally understand my perspective but didn't say anymore. Broke my old pattern of LB and gave him some space (usually berate him to tell me what he thinks and feels immediately).

Stay tuned as if he doesn't come through I will have to go to plan B and he knows this means he will have to move out in next few days - I am SO SCARED but know this is only way to save marriage.

Thanks for the reality check. I needed it.

reality check time.

WH totally furious at me that has to move out by tomorrow night if haven't done NC letter. Has gone to basement around 8:45pm and totally withdrawn.

Lost job yesterday so totally pissed at my "timing" but 5 weeks without official NC after DD.

Told him if truly NC then nothing to lose - told him he doesn't have to be sure about R with me but I need NC to continue with him living here.

Sounds like he is going to go by tomorrow night and I certainly don't want him to do NC just to keep living here. So sad as I was naive enough to think we wouldn't end up in Plan B.

From what I have read I need an official NC to do Plan A with him living here with me and trying to fulfill his EN (including SF) while addressing my own stuff right?

Seems like members are saying at this point if he doesn't do NC letter then he needs to leave and I do Plan B with no contact - this will rip my guts out.

What will rip your guts out is a half arsed recovery. You have put in place your boundry.

So do you have any proof of contact? Why do you feel NC letter now is needed? I agree you need NC in place, you must decide what you can live with

Keep us posted

Phoenix, he doesn't have to do a no contact letter to maintain no contact. What he has to do is a) commit to no contact and b) commit to the recovery of the marriage. There is no reason for him to be there at all if won't commit to a plan of recovery.

If he is "not sure about reconciliation" then what is he doing there? using you as a flop house while he tears you down?

So what you need are those 2 things: a) assurance of no contact and b) a committment to recovery

Otherwise, you would be wise to go into Plan B because you will die a death of a thousand cuts with this no recovery limbo.

Of course, since you told him your condition is the no contact letter, I would stick with that lest he get the impression that his threat to leave scared you.

But it can't just be a no contact letter, phoenix. He has to commit to recovery. You are right now enduring the greatest hell of all: the FALSE RECOVERY. Where your spouse comes back and does not commit to the marriage. You must protect yourself from that.


Tell him calmly that you are not interested in staying together unless he commits to recovering the marriage. You are his wife, not a flop house for disgruntled adulterers.

Goofed it all up big time and couldn't bear to post yesterday as so depressed and ashamed.

I made a major error - focused on one principle of MB - the need for NC and full committment to restore the marriage but then totally forgot about all my LB behaviours.

I responded to Melady's email in a way that I am sure she did not intend - I got all fired up and felt like my rights were not being taken into consideration and popped a valve - anger is so righteous feeling that at the time I didn't catch myself and what I did almost blew our R out of the water.


Decided to check out OW on facebook, got totally into taker mode and brought up as demands with increasing AO and DJ and within 15 minutes told him he had to move out by tomorrow night if NC and not committed to marriage.

Led to huge blow out that lasted until 2am during which I tried to kick him out that night - husband took the high road and managed to get us to calm down and clarify as he was so confused given the past week had been really great.

Talked yesterday and both of us totally shell shocked. My behaviour reminded him terrible of all the horrible LB and problems I have regulating my moods (part of how I neglected and made my marriage vulnerable).

We have talked again - husband said only reason he is back home is to restore the marriage and he is fully committed to NC - he was surprised I had been visiting OW facebook anonymously as he can't imagine how painful that must be for me. I have agreed to stop.

WH said he is fully committed to NC and will still do letter as he can see how that is important even though he feels it is already in place from their in person meeting. He denies any contact for past 5 weeks and I can't find any evidence.

He said his priority is rebuilding our relationship and putting each other first so that we can see if our committment to our marriage can result in falling back in love and fully reconciling. He is certainly doing lots to meet my needs and there is a fragile but growing intimacy between us I haven't felt in years.

For now we are both comfortable with him being in the basement and proceeding with everything else including tons of RC, SF and other EN being met. We will enjoy him returning to our bed as one of the first symbols of full R and will look forward to many others like renewing our vows hopefully in the future when we are fully down the firm road of recovery - so far to go still.

Hope floats today.

You did LB, but you got your point across. This time try to avoid LB's. I would suggest setting up a preplanned reaction that you can do without demanding anything next time he breaks the NC rule, and let him know how you will react. Perhaps you can block facebook or give the computer to your parents. This might help stifle your anger. You can also preplan some reactions to other things that he does that makes you angry.

Really good advice. I need to not act impulsively to my own hurt or expected paranoia. The sad thing is I don't have any evidence of him breaking NC but blew up at him because of my own turmoil