Tell him MelodyLane said she will kick his [censored] if he does that again, ok?

Ok. MelodyLane, I'll tell him that. Good Night!, and thanks everybody for your help again.

MelodyLane, I just did what you said, and he responded well. Plus, he said that he was sorry for breaking it! I did added that you were going to kick his [censored], if he did it again!!!! thanks, bye...

Rizos,

I've posted to your husband a few times, including once today on this very topic.

Something that I began to study about a year ago was the way our brain processes memories. When a strong emotional reaction to something happens, it causes us to remember minute details about the event that might otherwise go unnoticed and not even be recalled if the emotional reaction isn't there at the time of the event.

To find out that the person you are married to has betrayed you is one of the most emotional things that can ever happen to you. Some have likened it to rape (not just men either but this came from women who experienced both rape and betrayal) and so a whole bunch of things happen that make us remember the smallest detail of the entire discovery process and even to examine in intricate detail the things that took place before we discovered that our spouse was having an affair.

The problem comes in when weeks or months or even years later something happens that makes us think of those details. The emotions from the original event are the result of a group of chemicals that get released into our brain that cause us to feel certain things including anguish, fear, anger, loneliness, abandonment etc. All of these chemicals are associated with the memory details and when something happens that makes us recall those details in some way, within a short time (from 90 to 120 seconds after we begin to think about the details of the memory) all of those chemicals get released into our brains and we once more feel all of the same emotional parts we felt when it first happened. Even pain can be triggered this way and emotional pain is just as devastating and even worse for some people.

So your husband was triggered by you changing your hair to a style that reminded him of the affair with OM. He did not choose to react emotionally to the trigger but it happened none the less. His mind went down a list of things that reminded him of the betrayal and his emotions flooded over him a moment later.

And then he reacted...

His reaction was inappropriate and it hurt you. I jumped on him about it this morning.

But there is something else at play here and since you are learning about the MB ways I can tell you that it has to do with Independent Behavior. If you consider for a moment Dr Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement (shortened here to POJA), "Never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse..." you'll soon realize that any time you do anything that he does not approve of, it says to him that you don't care about his feelings. It may not be that you wanted to hurt him, but your action tells him that it doesn't matter to you whether you hurt him or not. Any Independent Behavior triggers this feeling. What makes it worse is when we do it knowing that our spouse would prefer that we don't do it. Now it begins to sound not just like an accidental "Oops, sorry, I didn't know I was hurting you" but begins to feel like a case of "I don't care what you want and if what I want to do hurts you it doesn't matter to me one bit."

So IB, done once hurts because you didn't think about his feelings, but IB done in spite of knowing that he would prefer something different hurts even more because it proves that you don't care what he wants. An affair is the ultimate in IB. It is something done in spite of knowing that it will hurt our spouse.

It isn't really the hair as much as it is that you changed it without his agreement and in spite of knowing that he wanted your hair curly instead of strait and darker instead of lighter. You said you already knew that. So why did you go ahead and make the change anyway?

Spending more time together meeting the four emotional needs of affection, conversation (probably two of your most important ENs) and recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment (likely two of his top ENs) all of these being things that can really only be properly met during private time away from family and friends need to be scheduled as the way to spend your UA (Undivided Attention) time together. These things if repeated even a few times will make huge Love Bank deposits for both of you. Once set on that course the process will become much easier each time until you will both actually begin to look forward to it.

This is because as you get your ENs met and he gets his ENs met you will both begin to enjoy your time together and eventually it will become the most enjoyable time of your day to day life together.

But even then he will have days when he will be sad, feel hurt, abandoned and lonely, even though you didn't do a thing to make him think of the affair. It happens sometimes, but it passes and if your attitude is one of comforting him and supporting him and showing him that you care about his feelings and emotions and pain then he will bounce back faster and recover better and heal more quickly and get back to meeting your ENs.

It's so good to have you here and nice to know you are trying to work the MB process. It always goes better and is much easier when both of you are doing it.

I'll be cheering and praying for you guys...

Mark

So far, I think he's right. You don't need to decide today. So take some time and read Dr Harley's plan on how to end an affair properly, and how to restore romantic love.

I fail to see how you are going to make an effective effort at this plan if you are divorcing/divorced. The plan takes time and effort. So does divorce.

Divorce is an adversarial process, and it does nothing to build love between you and the spouse you are divorcing.
Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it can't happen. You reduce the chances of it happening if you chose divorce, so again, I'm siding with your H here.

Read the plans here and get to work. Start doing your part.
So what does Steve say about this specific issue. I tend to agree with you, that you'll need specifics on what O&H looks like. So has Steve helped you flesh out a definition and a plan to provide what he's seeking?

You want him to POJA being Love Busted? He's in a state of withdrawal.


Why have talks? I don't see anything in the MB plan to have talks. I'm not saying you guys can't discuss things. However, it has to be something BOTH of you are enthusiastic about, and apparently he's not there yet.

I have some guesses, but eventually he'll have to tell you. He said he's concerned with your O&H. So if he's concerned with that, then why would he want to have a talk, or even believe you?

I'm not saying you are not being O&H, I really don't know. But since he doesn't want to have talks, then just don't.

The plan is about building romantic love. Did you have long talks about difficult subjects when you first met? Probably not. You probably went on fun dates, spent lots of time together, you did things that you knew would make him happy.

So what are you doing now?

1. You had an affair, that probably didn't make him happy.
2. You engage in independent behavior. It may seem small to you, how you wear your hair. Yet you know he likes it a certain way, and yet decided to wear it the way you like.
3. You seek to engage in long, likely difficult discussions.

Did you act this way when you were first dating? Probably not. You probably didn't even notice there were other men on the planet. You probably made efforts to do things you knew he liked. You probably wore clothes he said he liked, or got him little gifts that he liked, or even wore your hair the way he liked. You probably did NOT have long, difficult conversations either.

So why do you think that engaging in these sorts of behaviors today will build a better marriage?

They won't.

You have to do those things you did when you first met to restore love. But do them in a deliberate way so that you develop patterns of behavior that are long-lasting, so you can maintain that sense of romantic love.

Here is what I see. If you are practicing MB and the POJA, you don't tell him, you ASK.

My wife and I are in our mid-40's and we ASK one another. We don't announce plans. To some, it seems like kids asking permission. The thing is, it really avoids resentments.

I don't make announcements, I make polite requests. It's not, I'm going to the store, but do you want to go to the store with me. Or I need to get a new lawn mower blade, do you mind if I go now, do you need anything while I'm out, etc.

I think you'll just have to wait it out.

The thing I don't think you understand is that you are ahead of him with respect to getting over the affair. Why? Because you knew about it the whole time.

He just found out, and has to really process this.

I've used this analogy the past few days, and as a BH, I think it really fits. Your affair was a major earthquake in the ocean. Even after the affair is over, you've created a tsunami wave that will be traveling throughout your husbands world, doing damage for some time.

Just because you end the affair does not mean that wave stops. It will take time for that wave to run it's course. In that time, he will be hurt by things due to that wave.

O&H, what he's looking for, will help protect him from that wave. Also, avoiding LB's such as independent behavior, or annoying habits. (Seems like those deep conversations may be like an annoying habit.)

Am I saying you will not ever have deep, difficult conversations? Nope. But don't expect to have them until you both are back in a state of emotional intimacy. He will no want to have them until he feels it's safe to do so.

I think you are largely on the right track, but could use some tweaking.

Ask, don't tell.
Don't expect him to just get over it, give him time. At the very LEAST, give him as much time as you gave the OM. So if you knew the OM for two years, give him two years from true NC to recover from the wave of damage done by your affair.

If you break, NC, the clock starts over and has to run longer.

RIZOS

The title of this thread is He thinks and I think. And both of you think the other is wrong. . .

You both are wrong.

Simple answer. And I would tell him the same thing as Mark did.

You both are.

I hope that you do understand that MB methods are designed to allow you to fall in love and stay in love. On the other hand, you say that you are not in love with him, but:


Do you resent the process? It is the way to stay in love with ANY man, including your husband. And he is the father of your children and you loved him in the past, right? Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Normally, when you are falling in love with a man, you do everything thing in your power to ATTRACT him, right?

He knows that.

So when you wear your hair some other way than what attracts him, then FIGHT about it, he thinks you are not trying to attract him.

And you aren't.

And from what I read - in between the line - there is more going on with you than what you say. I SUGGEST that you post more and talk more here, perhaps helping someone else from time to time.

I could say more, much more, but I won't for now.

I do have one question: What is your cultural background. Where were you raised as a child and as a teenager? What part of the country or the world? If you don't mind telling me.

Larry

Oh, and rizo, just one other small thought.

It might be more than attempting to control you. It may be because he is passionate about you - the hair dryer thing - maybe.

Expressed in a more positive way, that passion would be a good thing, right?

Larry

You did great!

Rizos, I have the feeling I know exactly where the O&H thing is coming from.

Have you told your parents about your affair yet?
Have you told them the real reason you guys were thinking of relocating?

Or are you expecting El Camino to lie there bleeding and take that bullet too? How do you think he feels having to take the "blame" for you guys moving away and having to cover up the truth of your affair at the same time?

Marriages thrive on honesty. They die if there is dishonesty at their core. You are asking El Camino to be your accomplice in this crime against your marriage. It will kill you both, emotionally.

Is that how you view your H's pain and triggers? As BS?


I hope so.

I agree about triggering and the hair thing, but does anyone else think it's troubling that

1. He used a HAMMER to DESTROY a hairdryer. Kinda scary
2. He wants to use the MB principles- but not really. He wants her to use them (and she absolutely should) but he's not O&H about how he's feeling. Either he's on board or he's not

Now, everyone has setbacks and no one does MB perfectly all the time, and he has been traumatized. I just worry about the (possible) double standard and the somewhat violent reaction.....

Your husband craves O&H
This is partially because he does not think he is getting it.
And here is why.Even if only on a subconscious level, he does not believe this.

He does not believe he knows the truth.

EC has already been told by many that destroying the hairdryer was inappropriate and scary. He agrees and has since apologized for it.

I can't stress how important this is. Your husbands world is destroyed and he needs something to cling to.

Take the threats of a D off the table RIGHT NOW.

This is the WORST thing you could be saying if you want your BH to believe that you are sorry and remorseful for the cruelest thing you could have done to him. What are you thinking by saying this????

My FWH has told me over and over again "I am not going anywhere. I love you and we are going to make this work. WE are going to fix this...I AM NOT GOING ANYWHERE."

He says this in the midst of heated arguments and pain. That is cruel of you to say this to your BH ...he does not deserve this even if he breaks your hairdryer.

You broke his heart, spirit and soul and YOU are threatening D?

As a BS I would not tolerate my FWH saying this to me. I would have already filed by now.

I smashed up an entire living room AND our master bedroom including the enormous street-facing window one night in a fit of pain, rage, fury, hurt....unremorseful, gaslighting
(F?)WS's insensitivity and cruelty over things that trigger can do that to you.

I am not proud of this but even completely normal, balanaced people lose it once in a while in recovery when dealing with FWS's who are far from "getting it".

Triggers can bring out the worst in any BS. I used the F-bomb a number of times in talking to my DH after the A (and I never swear at all). I punched him in the chest a number of times (and I never get physical with anyone). And believe it or not, GO just sat there and took it from me without getting riled up or having AO. That is the proper response from a WS to a triggered BS. Sorry, Rizos, but most of the time, EC is going to be right because you betrayed him. Swallow your pride and accept that.

What's wrong with getting what you want in life, sometimes? Do you just not want your husband to get what he wants?

Are you committed to the policy of joint agreement? It says that you should do nothing without an enthusiastic agreement with your spouse. If your husband is not enthusiastic about you straightening your hair, and you are straightening it, then you are not following Marriage Builders principles for the recovery of romantic love in your marriage.

It doesn't matter what your husband's reasons for not wanting you to straighten your hair are; it doesn't matter if he "should" feel that way, or if he is right or wrong, or if it is a big or a little thing. The FACT is that when you straighten your hair, you deplete his love bank. He has been very kind to tell you this, because this information helps you keep his love bank full, which can help lead to a much happier marriage for you. You should be glad about that!

Maybe some day down the road straightening your hair will not be an issue for your husband. Maybe one day you will be able to negotiate your hairstyle using Marriage Builders principles. But you need to lay some groundwork first, and for that you need to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement.

I suggest you go tell your husband that you are committed to not doing anything without his enthusiastic agreement, and that as long as he doesn't want your hair straightened, you won't straighten it again. See if that doesn't make some deposits in his love bank.

Have you told your husband?

You realize that when you did this, you stuck a knife in the heart of your marriage, don't you?

My wife has been incredibly mean and cruel to me, but I go to MEN for my support. Affairs happen when people who have marital problems bond over those problems with a member of the opposite sex. Everyone should learn this when they are a child.