Rizos:

Keep in mind that this is a help forum. And keep in mind that the help in this particular sub forum is based on marriage recovery as taught by Dr. Harley, who you wrote asking for help.

I would be most pleased to respond to your questions.

But perhaps one thing at a time is better. Right now the question of the day is what about the OM picture???



Interesting. . .You did remember where the charger was, right? In any event, Mel pointed out that ElCamino is back to day one and asked what you were going to do about that.

One thing at a time.

I do note that you are not willing to tell your parents and that you have not said WHY you are not willing. Perhaps giving a reason instead of being rude would be the socially correct way to handle the issue.

Larry

Why do I get the feeling the car charger on top of the newspaper clipping was staged?

I don't want to believe it - but man - the contradictions are thick here Riz - Try looking at it from another POV. Wouldn't you suspect this to be a way of getting a shot in at your husband?

Larry,

You don't believe what I say, why I should bother answering your questions? I didn't know the picture was there, and it was a guess when I told him to look into that drawer, by the way HIS drawer. I had that picture long before the affair, and I probably put it there a LONG time ago. I did take a look at the picture for a few minutes before I got rid of it.

KaylaAndy,

I don't know what are you smoking, but please keep it to yourself if you don't know what are you talking about!!! I'm not in WAR w/ my husband, perhaps YOU are. This was an unfortunate event, believe it or not. The laptop battery is low, but perhaps, I'm lying...

And this set YOU back to DAY1 too. This is CONTACT. It is INDIRECT contact, but contact none the less.

You really are seeming to be a bit more defensive today than in your previous posts. You are now talking about NOT looking at the answer from DrH. What are you going to do now? Do you have a plan?

Also, don't get so offended about ElCamino getting help on here. He is writing on this forum to get help for BOTH of you recover your M.

Rizos:


It isn't a matter of believing you or not, I just am, like you, suspicious of short, shallow answers. Yet that is what you are doing. And it isn't a matter of not believing you exactly, I just think that with your short and shallow answers, there is more you are not telling me. If that is the way it looks to me, is there any wonder that ElCamino might be thinking the same way? THAT reflects exactly one of the complaints you have. And I have read all of your complaints at least twice and one of the major complaints you have is to get short, shallow answers.

Here is an example:

You have said you don't wish to tell your parents because it would hurt them. I saw that. I do believe that is one of your reasons. I do not believe it is your only reason. Parent/child relationships are way more complex than that, always. For example, why would it hurt them? Are they so old or isolated that a life reality for their child (you) is something they cannot handle. Or maybe you fear their reaction because of some reason?

See what I mean? You hate short, shallow answers, but that is exactly what you gave, short shallow answers. And I am not at all sure why. Perhaps you hate that people here ask questions and you do not like to give answers. I really don't know.

Those here who ask questions are doing so to help. From the answers they see, they respond and thus help you to see how your answers will look to those who are important to you.

Please notice that I was not rude to you and that I did not give you a short, shallow comment to match your own.

Larry

Rizos, until I read your excuse, I too thought this could have been staged. If a couple of innocent posters could have thought that, what do you think El could have thought when he saw that?

People are trying to HELP you not HURT you. Sometimes, we need to hear something to understand how others perceive our actions.

I wrote this a few days ago, after you had been so frustrated about El Camino wanting honesty and openness and you didn't know what more you could do, because you have answered all of his questions. Please think about this. Try to think about it with empathy for your husband, and how he is feeling. I think it is more important than you realize.

I know your parents will be hurt, and I know that you do not want to be the source of any pain to them. But you have put the affair behind you and your parents will be PROUD of you for being brave enough to tell them the truth. They know how hard it is. They will be disappointed, sure, but they will also be proud that you are working hard to make things right. They will be able to support you and encourage you.

Your lack of empathy for what HAD to have crossed your husband's mind is revealing.

I said that it LOOKED like it had been staged to hurt him - and your reaction - instead of looking at it from outside your defensiveness as I suggested you do, you are ready to duke it out with anyone who suggests you aren't as protective of your husband as you need to be.

I sense some very deep seated resentment of your husband in your posts. Competition over who's right and who's wrong as a starting point. A move to the US that you resign yourself as necessary but not enthusiastic to express caring and protection for your husband.

Yeah - that's why I think you staged it now - especially since you fight the suggestion of what's running you instead of taking a good look at it from what it looks like to us.

And what does my husband have to do with your behavior???

Rizos, you might be tough, and I believe you are, but you are not acting tough when it comes to facing up to what you have done. You are hiding out, madam. Like a coward.

There is nothing tough about hiding behind your husband like a scared wimpy girl and making him lie for you. Asking your husband to lie to your families about the reasons behind your move and the sale of his company is not a tough cookie, but a wimpy noodle; a scardy cat. A tough cookie faces things like a MAN and doesn't run and hide like a school girl. A tough cookie doesn�t hide behind her husband and ask him to lie for her.

Frankly, I didn�t take you for the cowardly type. I figured you for more cojones than that.

Why aren't you facing this head on and telling the families the truth with bravery, honor and courage like a woman of dignity and strength? How can you allow yourself to hide out in disgrace and shame?

MelodyLane

Yes, I'm a coward! Thanks, for waking me up, I've been asleep. Anyways, I've been thinking about telling my parents about the affair, also telling my BH that I'm not moving to the US and that I will start looking for a job or go back to school.

You see, at the end, after all it was my fault that he had to sell the company. But, that's not a reason to move to the US. I guess I want it to move to avoid telling my parents or friends about the affair, but if they know about it I won't have to move. It will be a relieve, and they will be VERY happy that I'm not moving...

I'll tell my mom tomorrow, and I will tell ElCamino to start to look for a new job in Puerto Rico, not in the US...

Thanks!!!!!

That is mighty brave and noble of you, Rizos! It is a terrible thing for a woman to cower in fear in the closet and expect her husband to face the consequences for her. Makes a woman look downright wimpy! And don't we claim to be equal?

Who else needs to be told besides your mother? Who else has been told lies about your move and the sale of the company?

Somehow I got the idea that you really didn't want to move. But like you say, now you won't have to. Perhaps El Camino will do what he is told and get a job in PR.

Larry

Larry,

I can't ask ElCamino to look for a job in Puerto Rico. I can't ask him to live in Puerto Rico. He can move to the US if he wants. But, you know that's my TAKER talking [censored]. I wish I didn't have to move to US, but "family pressure" is too much if we stay here. ElCamino doesn't like to spend time w/ my family, and they don't understand that. In our culture, families stay close, and they visit each other like every weekend, and they expect you to be there for them at all times. I was raised thinking that they(mom, dad, sisters, aunts, etc) were more important than even your husband, and that they come first.

After reading MB, I've realized that that way of thinking was wrong, and that ElCamino is what matters the most, and should be my #1 priority. He used to be my #1 priority when we were living in the US (no family members around)!!!! My family, or for that matter, most families in Puerto Rico doesn't understand that concept. Seeing other couples spending time w/ family members, didn't help our relationship either. I was like, why I didn't marry a man who likes to spend time w/ my family?

If we don't move it will be a huge love busters to have to deal w/ that situation. I was visiting them by myself, and lying to them, telling them that ElCamino was tired of working or whatever so that they wouldn't get upset w/ him. And later on, when I've tired of lying, I started to use the excuse that he was raised differently (he hardly contact his mom or brothers) to try to justify him not wanting to visit them. I've always encouraged him to visit his mom, and to call her. lately I haven't been visiting het to try to see the OM, who live next door. One night, my mom in law was taking care of my daughters, and I arrived at the gate at the same time. the OM opened the gate, and had his window down. I entered, and ignored him. I told ElCamino right away...

Even without the affair, our relationship has been struggling do to my close relationship w/ my family. That's what started to shattered out marriage as soon as we move back to Puerto Rico. When we were living in the US, as far as I know, I can even recall a huge argument.

Anyway, I will be very sleepy tomorrow... And still don't know what to do w/ ElCamino. He doesn't believe that I want to be w/ him forever. He's a great man, and I admire him a lot. Hopefully, he will open up and tell me what he needs. He hasn't ask me to tell my parents about what happened, but I will ask him, and see what he has to say about it...

Just needed to fix that huge OOPs!!!

Rizos:

Well. ..


Of course you were raised that way. I understand your culture. It is my hobby to read and understand cultures. I have been doing it since college where my major was Cultural Psychology. I am an old man who has lived in many places and enjoyed them all. My passport says 26 countries plus PR and not just once each country either. China alone is over 30 times.

Do you know why EC was uncomfortable? Any theories? I hear the one about how he was raised. But it is never that simple. For just one (1) example, I too built up a business. I know that on weekends, the last thing I wanted to do was go socialize with all the relatives. I was too emotionally drained and I needed to recharge. But that wasn't the only reason. I suspect EC had more than one just as I did. And yes, sometimes I went, but NOT every weekend.

And I hear you having second thoughts about exposing to your family. Of course you do. And it isn't as simple as you don't want to hurt them. And I suspect there might even be reasons you do not want to expose to the view of "Strangers," like me. Our task here is to ask questions, often uncomfortable questions, to get you to think and establish priorities, to keep you on the path in between your sessions with your MB program and your MB coach.

It does seem to me that you have a well cultivated Latin temper, which, when challenged, allows you to explode into fire works and sometimes saying things you may later regret; things that may or may not reflect your true opinion or situation. What you do is okay with me. I am used to it.

And I do not take it personally.

You are under the care of the Harley coaching center. Steve is the man with the plan. I admire the entire Harley program and understand that they are the professionals. Among many other things, this forum acts as a group support system in between your sessions with the professionals helping to motivate you to follow the plan with a serious emotional commitment.

And sometimes to handle the small things, like the hair dryer incident. I think that was your second time with the hair, right?

So long as you are posting Rizas, I will keep reading. And as I read, I will probably ask you questions designed to reveal what you really mean and what you are really thinking. Then after you pause from your explosion you can tell me. The purpose is to line you up so you can get help from Steve the next time you talk to him.

The first time I read your post, I had not read any of your former posts. I had not read any of El Camino's post and still haven't read many of his. After I read your first post on this thread, I asked myself two questions:

Is she afraid.
Is she angry for some other reason.
There is something I want to tell her when she is ready to hear it.

Larry

Rizos, I am so encouraged to read this post of yours. I was thinking about you quite a lot yesterday evening and for me the "Tell or not tell" debate all comes down to one, simple thing:

Do you want to protect your husband, or do you want to protect yourself at the expense of your husband?

I hope that makes a lot of sense to you. If it does not, please let me know and I will clarify and explain.

As far as telling ElC that you are not moving to the US and that he should look for a job in PR... how about *asking* him what he would like, and you tell him what you would like, and you explore the options together and come up with an idea that you are both very enthusiastic about?

Please let us know how your mother takes the news, so we can support you if you need it. I am so proud of you.

Rizos, you have a bigger problem than making excuses for ElCamino, it is that the OM lives next to your parents. You know that is not going to work. Running into him will keep you in a perpetual state of withdrawal. Just telling ElCamino about sightings does nothing to overcome the damage done from seeing him. Nor will it overcome the trigger ElCamino will feel from seeing that worm�s house every time he goes there.

This is another reason why your parents have to be told, Rizos. You can�t go over there without causing great harm to your marriage. They need to know why. And they need to know that OM is a worm who needs to stay away from the family.

As far as visiting your family, you and ElCamino can negotiate a solution that suits you both without going there and bumping into the OM. The honorable thing to do, Rizos, is to take accountability for this problem and offer to brainstorm solutions with ElCamino. Don't dump this problem on El Camino to solve.

Your husband knows your family is important to you but you have an obligation and a duty to protect him from any contact with the OM. Show him you are sincere about taking accountability. Find a way to stay in touch with your parents that accommodates and protects your husband.

MelodyLane,

His(ElCamino) parents are the OM next door neighbors. And indeed we have been talking of ways for me to see my family, without affecting him. For example, I go alone, or with BH, if my parents are the only ones at home.

But, I've decided for now(I have to ask BH), that I'm not telling my parents. Yes indeed, I'm a coward, plus a friend and sisters suggested that I shouldn't tell my parents (yeah, I know how convenient). Anyway, I'll still ask BH, about how he feels about it.

bye...

Rizos, thats a cop-out, but I'm sure you already know that. Your "friend" and your sister don't know anything about saving marriages; they are just telling you what you want to hear. On the other hand, Dr Harley does know how to save marriages and he knows what he is talking about. He told you to tell your families.

Your refusal to tell them makes me seriously question your sincerity especially since you know it would help your husband.

Has El camino told his own parents? The ones who live next door to the OM?