Nope. That would be confrontational. As another wise person pointed out, my foucs right now is my part of the "dance" - my own behavior.


Old news. We have made measureable progress since that day. I understand if you didn't have the time to read everything. You have a lot going on.



Sure you can live that way ...for a time. Trying to verbally push the issue right now or force a spouse to make a decision at this stage would be foolish. It could cause more harm than good.

In fact, there are at least 4 reactions to our spouse threatening divorce, filing for divorce, or saying "I don't love you anymore"

1) Throw in the towel ("She / he doesn't want to try, so neither do I.")
2) Try to Control the Situation (Try to talk your spouse into staying or out of leaving)
3) Declare War (Bad mouth your spouse to friends, family, and anyone who will listen. Yell. Scream. Argue. Berate your spouse, etc.)
4) Do something proactive (Plan, then do! Try MB, MC, or some other counseling / coaching method - even if your spouse isn't with it right now. Explore your options while managing your emotions.)

What you have to do if you want to save your marriage is work on what's under your control - your own behavior. IMO, MB is awesome because it's behavior-based.

As far as my situation goes: Things are consistent at the moment. I am consitently practicing and learning MB, I am consistently trying to manage my bahavior and my emotions, and I can see that things are consitently improving between us.

Today I had feelings of sadness & anger as a rection to a conversation about my husband not sleeping in the bed when I started sleeping in it this weekend. He said it's because of my foot, but I don't believe him. (DJ right?) It makes sense anyway - why sleep in the same bed with your wife if you aren't sure whether you want to be married to her? I had expected this but at the same time I had positive hopes.

I experienced these feelings during our commute this morning after the topic came up. We couldn't really get into it because we had a rider in the vehicle with us. When my husband attempted to make small talk, I wasn't able to respond. I simply stopped talking to him. He noticed it of course. I also wasn't able to say my cheery "goodbye / have a great day / & smile" at the end of the ride either...I asked what time he'd be coming to pick me up and then I said OK when he answered. I got out of the vehicle and went into the building.

I can hardly concentrate on my work. I am in trouble...I feel so down today. No - I feel absolutely terrible. I started a thread about this but then I removed it & replaced it with this one. It was very ugly. Lots of caps writing.

I wish he would just file for divorce and get it over with. Or - maybe I should do it. I am not sure how much more of this I can take. How long will it be before I have some kind of breakdown at work? While HE is merry and gay, plays with our son, plays his video games on his computer, etc.

I hate that he's OK with turning me and my son into divorce statistics. I hate that he has to "think about" whether he wants to give things another try.

I guess I am coming close to the point of losing my love for him. OR - the anger over his one two many "I'm gonna divorce you" threats is overtaking my feelings of love for him. If that happens - if I fully lose it, the marriage really will be over once and for all. Perhaps this is why Dr. H says plan A for women is only about 4 weeks.

Someone please help me!

I'm sorry nobody has responded to this.

Have you told him all this? Your foot is no excuse if he's saying he's doing it for your comfort and you told him that it's not a discomfort to you. I know you struggle with dishonesty. Just try to tell him these things. No, just DO. Do tell him.

Chris, typically people here are advised to keep their postings to one thread. It helps everyone follow the pieces of your story and offer better advice.

Things seem to be running really slowly today with a number of the regular veterans not posting yet or not posting as much as usual, so I'm hoping that better responses from people more experienced than me are coming up ahead.

In the meantime, I know that Dr. Harley has said the value of this forum in providing support has been invaluable for many people. And I want to encourage you to believe that marriage is valuable. There have been days I have asked myself why I put myself through pain. Of course I know the answer is that I believe in being faithful to my vows and I believe restored love between me and my wife is possible and will be wonderful. On those days, having people here to remind me of that and notice all the hard work I've done has just been incredibly invaluable.

After marriage recovery, people who wanted out and didn't care about their wife or children often seem to be amazed and even ashamed when they remember how they were acting. I hope one day due to all your hard work your husband can say the same.

Have you talked with Steve Harley?

Sorry OH. I was feeling like crap.

CW - we talked again this evening....when he picked me up, he saw I was upset & he initiated another "big talk"... I told him how I hurt I was about the conversation from this morning. He said he knew I was upset & he wanted to call me and talk more about it, but the office environment wasn't safe for that kind of talk today. He pointed out what I said above: We are currently evaluating things & it wouldn't be right for us to be in bed together at this point.

We talked about a lot of things. I told him that I feel he doesn't care about me & love me because he seems OK...not upset at all. He said that he does care about me & love me or he would have simply left. He always goes "flat" (as far as outward expressions) when he's working through his emotions. He is paying extra attention to our child because men who feel like they may be pulling away from their wife also pull away from their kids at the same time. He doesn't want to do that...he doesn't want our child to get hurt.

He said that, at times, he gets up in the morning & thinks he wants to try again - work on our marriage... but he wants to be sure I am 100% committed to working through my issues with emotional dishonesty & resentment. He said he wasn't happy living the way we were and he wants things to be different if we're going to be together. I agreed. He said that in my couseling and quest for personal growth I may decide I don't want to be married to him anymore. He doesn't want me to forget about what happened in 2006 - just be able to truly forgive him so we can move on together IF we are going to be together.



Very eye opening.



I think that if we can get through this we will have a deeper and much more satisfying relationship. Looks like if I can just clean up my side of the street...things may just work out after all.

Markos,

I had one session with Dr SW Harley. I believe that within a few weeks we may be purchasing lots more together. That's my outlook and my hope at this point.

Good for you, Chris. In the meantime, we'll see what we can do here to keep you encouraged. I know what it is to float between those sessions and feel like you have no hope. Don't give up, as long as this possibility remains. Steve is a good motivator.

{And the forum was great at helping me discover Love Busters I didn't know I was committing!}

They don't call it a roller-coaster for nothing! Don't get hit or fall out during the wild ride. It looks a whole lot better on the other side.

Thanks Markos

Chris, this is very, very promising. I think all it would take to push him over would be some motivation from Steve. Steve could sell him by showing him an action plan. If he sees a an action PLAN rolled out, he might be more hopeful. Will he talk to Steve?

Perhaps a little later when I start to show progress with what I mentioned above. He believes that we can't work on our issues effectively if I am not really willing to work on mine.

Are you not willing to work on the marriage? I thought you were?

Sorry - I meant my own personal issues. Examples: PTSD - like behavior from being abused, hiding anger (and other "negative" emotions), & managing my memories.

What kind of behavior is that? What do you do?

It's hard for me to admit at this point...but I'll try - without getting too specific:

I tend to re-live the abuse and experience the emotions (as if it's happening in the present) all over again when something reminds me of it...could be a movie, a conversation, something I witness IRL. In comes the anger / bitterness / resentment.

I tend to downplay or completely hide my feelings if I think the feelings are negative - In my mind "negative emotions" are "dirty"... sadness & anger are biggies for me. This basically equates to lying because the people in my life (especially my spouse) do not know my true feelings about many things. Then I become resentlful as the behavior they are doing which annoys / hurts me continues (because I did not tell them.) Resentment is a poison.

Does that give you a picture of the types of things I am doing in my intimate relationships?

How exactly do you "re-live the abuse?" What do you do to others?

And what have you done to NOT REACT to triggers? I mean, I understand abuse, becuase I was horribly abused. But the solution was to train myself to NOT think about it.

I am not resentful and my bad childhood has NO CONTROL over my life today. That can't be used as an excuse for bad behavior when one is an adult.

We can always control behavior, though. What behaviors are disturbing to him?

Chris,

I waited to respond because of my own reaction to your post.

I remember that mindset very well...and I read you as in a lot of pain, fear and anger.

Very eye-opening...is intimacy...is literally your brain widening its doors. Through conflict, we do have deeper intimacy...and that's just what you did when you didn't zone out during your H's "big talk"...where you participated, own your emotions with "I" statements and were radically honest.

Sounds like he did, too. Sounds like you knew each other new today, without assumptions (for the most part). You really cannot read the other's mind. Even based on the past, knowing each other's habits, perspectives and perceptions.

What you assume harms you...inside. Would you consider you will take the worst, most painful possibility as the reason behind your H's actions? Will you consider that may be your habit, long before H, and see if you have done that with others (old friends, childhood friends, relatives, siblings, parents)?

Kudos for your honesty--your act of bravery...feeling fear, pain and anger, and staying honest and respectful, anyway.

What was stunning to me was when I realized how much MORE pain, anger and fear was in our disconnection (assumptions) than in true connection. I believed conflict was fighting, hurting each other...as Dr. Harley says, we choose to fight or not. It is real connection, good communication...and it's confrontation of ourselves, really, not the other person. Fighting is when we confront our partners, instead, I think.

LA

I don't do anything to anyone. I just turn inward and become more closed off. Turtle in a shell.


I tried the "pretend it didn't happen" method and the "it wasn't that big of a deal method."

Fail.

This is why I am off to IC every Tuesday indefinitely.


The lack of emotional honesty.

The SDs and DJs swirling with resentment.



ETA: My H seems to be a sensitive man. I think my approval and emotional availability was / is extremely important to him. I gave judgementalism, anger, and resentment.

Chris, I may be off base, but I really think there's a good chance this just all comes down to learning how to express emotion openly without the love busters of angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and selfish demands. I think you have a lot of similarities between both me and my wife. It was a major breakthrough for us to learn how to start making thoughtful requests of each other instead of demands. It's been another major breakthrough for us for me, the last couple of months, to learn to start just honestly and factually expressing my feelings without anger.

But it's a skill that can be learned, taught, studied, and coached.

Get yourself a good coach for this stuff, plus lots of help here, and it really opens up doors in your marriage.