Hi all,

My WW had an emotional affair with an out of town OM. It's been over for one month now. We are getting re-acquainted and working out many issues we had prior to and during the A. We are having sex often but she will not kiss me on the lips. Only on the cheek as a greeting, not in bed. She holds reservations we can build the kind of M she always wanted, but is willing to give it some more time. I've been shocked into an entirely new focus on our M and on her. I'm very excited to be with her. We are getting a lot of time together.

So how long should I expect for her to re-commit fully? I'm sure I am being impatient. She is a wonderful person and I'm truly happy we are working to stay together. She just doesn't seem to have full faith in a positive outcome. I think she
s waiting for the old M to resume and I go back to being distant and detached.

Hi 146, btw I love your name, it's easy to remember and type!

Welcome to MB.
Be sure to read the articles by Dr. Harley on this site.
The books, Surviving An Affair, His Needs Her Needs and Lovebusters will also be helpful to you and to your wife, when she is in agreement to read them.
You can check your local library for them, personally I like owning them so that I can refer back at any time. You can purchase them on Amazon or on this site.

A couple of things to ask, just to make sure that you are in true R, for your sake.

You say it's been over a month that the A is over, can you verify this, other than what your WW has said to you? Are you monitoring and verifying that this is true?

Has your WW wrote a no contact letter to OM? One that was written by her, approved and sent by you? This is an important step in ending an A, as is no contact with this OP and your WW for life.

Your WW will go through withdrawl from her addiction to this OP, this is normal from what I've read. I can't give you any advice on this since I didn't experience this with my FWH, although I can't imagine how tough this is to watch. Other BS's here can help you with that.
When reading the articles, pay close attention to the LoveBank. Avoid lovebusters.
The goal is for your WW to fall back into love with YOU.

It's good that you have patience, you will need it. R is a process, a long one of back and forth feelings of willingness to R and 'what the heck am I doing here'.
Recovery is hard, but if you can stand the heat, and have perseverance, it can be so worth it, to have a better M.

I have verified it is over. I saw the "break up" notes she had saved. She has not written a NC letter. I haven't pushed this since she assures me there is no interest on his part. I believe this based on the notes.

I do think she is going through withdrawal. I'm troubled by the fact she still won't wear her rings and there is no kissing. I have a high level of anxiety regardless, so these things make it hard to see through that sometimes.

I need to understand better what she is going through.

here's a thread that you might find helpful.
withdrawl

Hey 146 - welcome to MB, although I'm sure you needn't be here. It's a great place - you'll find lots of help.

My wife also had an emotional affair (EA) and I experienced what you are going through and a lot more. You're not alone.

Can you give us a few more facts? How did they connect? How did they communicate (email, phone, text, on-line)? Is the OM someone she works with?

It bothers me that the reason the EA has 'ended' (not sure it has, to be honest) is that the OM ended it. Your wife really needs to agree to No Contact (NC) and to write a letter stating so.

Also, you need to snoop a bit to make sure the contact has really ended. 'Break up' notes mean nothing. If the computer was used to communicate, I would highly suggest installing keylogger software (I have had good luck with WebWatcher) to monitor computer use.

The reason she won't kiss you or wear her rings is because she's in withdrawal and is 'foggy'. This may last a while, especially if contact is still happening.

Read everything on this site that you can, and get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley. That book was a huge help to me.

Some more background:

She met the OM through the nursing home her parent was in which is out of state. She visits every couple of months. He has been moved to another home, so we don't expect them to cross paths this way. He provided her a cell phone to txt so I wouldn't find out. I never did discover it. She told me about it when I asked about the evidence I had, shortly after the A ended. She returned it in the mail about one month ago.

I say this is a EA, but they did meet to talk and she admitted to kissing and holding him close. She had very little opportunity to do more and I don't doubt her. I prefer not to get into arguments about that. I have read the warnings from otheres on the Surviving board, and I understand.

We have been intimate a lot since it ended. Things changed for the better dramatically between us since then - physically and emotionally.

Sorry to splash some cold water on you 146, and I hope I'm wrong, but personally I'm highly troubled by your situation as you describe it. I've learned from this site not to believe the wayward spouse. And having been one, I can totally see why. I was an expert at telling half-truths. Unfortunately, we are in D process so I can't talk much about recovery, but from what I've learned here R can't start until total recognition of the A on the part of the WS takes place (vets will correct me if I'm wrong). It doens't sound like you really have that.

For one thing, there seems to be quite an emphasis on your WW's part that the pre-A marriage was not "what she always wanted". ...sounds like blame shifting to me.

I don't have time to elaborate on my other concerns, but I will later tonight if possible.

Try to fill us in a little more.

~optimism

One other thought - you may want to click on Notify (below) and ask the admins to move your thread to the Surviving An Affair forum. There's more traffic there, and you'll get more and better advice.

EAs are tricky. I'm not so sure that you're in recovery mode just yet. Seems like your wife is in withdrawal, and that is accompanied by lots of 'fog talk' and, unfortunately, lying.

I've been there - I know what you're going through.

Well there is blame to go around... She's accepting responsibility for what she has done, and I have for not meeting her needs. As I've read on this site, the needs must be met, and if they aren't then the A is inevitable. So I'm comfortable with it having ended, with the level of truth I have, and the ownership she is taking.

I'm not comfortable with the level of affection she is offering me, but is this because it takes time, or I have too many lovebusters out there? I've given her my EN questionaire. She is still working on hers.

Ok, just remember that the EA is 100% HER FAULT, not yours. She made the choice. You did not.

Be wary, my friend.

Whoa! Agreed with Linus, it's not inevitable. It's more likely. Big difference. Your ww made the choice to let it go to a PA.

Also agree with Linus. Please move this to Surviving Affair board.

I'm sorry. This just doesn't sound like recovery to me.

I don't know why this is hitting me so hard but I'm really
bothered by this one.

opt

I'm really looking for advice about what may be limiting her level of physical approach to me, and the resistance to her wedding band, not so much about whether it has ended. If you think that may be one reason, I can accept that. Are there other reasons? Is it a matter of time and rebuilding?

She's remaining faithful to her lover by not kissing you. In hopes he will return to her.

She's avoiding appearing married by not wearing her wedding band.

She has lied to you about the extent of their affair. 100% certain, guaranteed she has not told you the full extent yet. It may not have progressed to sex, but "kissing" and "holding close" almost certainly means something more. It took four months to get the truth out of my spouse. Much more for many people.

What you need to focus on right now is doing a solid "Plan A". You don't know the affair is over. You HOPE the affair is over. Treat it as an active affair until you know differently, and come to know by spying like crazy. She's deep in the fog and withdrawal right now, and your best hope is to meet her needs so competently, and avoid Love Busters so consistently, that even fighting against the enormous Contrast Effect that makes you look like such a terrible husband compared to the fantasy of the affair, you still come out on top.

Best of luck. Set a time limit, do your best to meet her emotional needs -- particularly Affection and Intimate Conversation -- even if yours are not being met.

Her level of physical approach to you and her resistance to her wedding band are directly associated to the status of the affair. IF it's over, meaning there is NO CONTACT, she's in withdrawal. If it's not over, no rebuilding can be started until the affair is over. She really needs to write a NC letter.

A couple of red flags - she saved the 'breakup notes'
She admitted to kissing and holding There's more to that . . .

I agree with opt and DoNoMo that you need to really get into PlanA, and I also think you need to do more investigating. Her seemingly quick turn-around just doesn't fit.

Final thought - have you exposed this to anyone?

Good luck.

Linus,
I know there is NC, and while she saved notes, they were extremely minimal, and this was prior to me bringing up my suspicions. I asked her to clean house of any notes, or other evidence of her activity. She was very willing and did this right away. Other things I have asked her to do came across as controlling demands - the ring, for one. I did not handle this part in the best way.

I'm going with withdrawal for the time being. I'm not sure I even want her to write a NC letter. I don't think there is a need based on what I have seen. But I will bring it up and see how she reacts. She has agreed to NC and promised it will not occur. She committed to even avoid a day of visiting her father if necessary, which is a huge sacrifice for her.

I have not exposed it to anyone. It was over before I discovered the truth. I'm not ready to do that unless it were to resume.

I'm sure there are hundreds of examples of the extent of lying WS will employ. I'm sure there are things that have been left out. But there are a lot of factors on my side. The time she is willing to give up being with her parents is a self imposed limitation I know well. Sure, the lure is strong, but the opposite pressures are also. I won't let my guard down.

Okay - good luck. We're with you, so don't hesitate to stay in touch and let us know how it's going.

I still urge you to read as much as you can from this site. I have become a much better husband, father and person because of what I've learned here and from Dr. Harley's books.

When you feel the time is right, you may want to introduce Mrs. 146 to some of the materials too. I'm trying to get Mrs. Linus to read HNHN (no luck yet) because I'm convinced it will help us to have a stronger marriage.

God Bless

146,
Maybe it seems like we�re riding you a little. These boards are littered with examples false-recoveries and gas-lighting and Betrayed Spouse Fog. We�re encouraging you to trust but verify. ALL waywards act the same way, and they say the same things; and as much as you want to believe yours is different (as I did), she�s not.

Personally, I�m going to risk angering you by saying some things you don�t want to hear. I�d rather have you pi$$ed at me than the alternative which is more pain and devastation than you might care to imagine. Why? I got the same treatment by some here (like linus and dnm) and I�m damn glad I did. I don�t know where I�d be without them and their �encouragement.� Call it paying back if you want, but for some reason I can�t describe your situation is screaming out to me; so I hope you�ll bear with me. I wouldn�t feel right if I didn�t express my concerns to you after so many have helped me through my ordeal.

Also, if you move this thread to the Surviving Affair board (which I think you should) you�ll have vets there to correct me if I�m out of line with anything I have to say.

As I said, I have a number of concerns. A big number. Linus and DNM have given you some things to think about. I agree whole-heartedly with both of them. If I reiterate anything below, it only emphasizes the importance.


First: - I�m sure you�re right; good to recognize that. Yes you seem to have caught it early. Yes, she seems somewhat repentant. Yes, she�s agreed to some conditions. These are all favorable points.

- please don�t; you�ve been lied to by the one person who you�re supposed to trust almost as much as your own Mother. It�s hard to get your head around this. Thing is, if you don�t handle this right, it will happen again, and next time it will be more ugly.

Umm, what does this have to do with it? I thought their parents were in different homes. Are you saying she�s willing to not have unaccounted for time? If so that�s good. If it�s something else then, well, it�s something else.


Let me tell you that before I went off the deep end into a full fledged PA, my wife discovered an e-mail I sent to a potential affairee. It stopped me cold dead in my tracks and I never spoke to that woman again. But I was STILL WAYWARD. I went back to the drawing board and got a lot more crafty. I didn�t get caught the next time.

I was also lucky that my A�s died spontaneously but let me tell you something else. Here�s all it would have taken. Example~
[in an email:] �Opt, I miss you. I feel so incomplete since we went our separate ways. Being with you was fantastic and I know it couldn�t last, but I�d love to get together with you even if it�s just one more time.�
[a chance encounter at a store] �Hey! How are things going? ...(small talk)....I think of you all the time, you should call me when you get a chance�
[a text] �I just saw a bouqet of daffodils, and it made me think of you. hope all is well�
[phone] �Hi, opt. Sorry to bother you. I hope it�s okay to call. ...I just wanted to say I was thinking about our last kiss. It�s hard for me to think of anything else sometimes. Well, have a good night. Don�t be afraid to call me sometime, I�m always around�

See, without a NC letter, the door is ALWAYS open. This creep might have shut it down, but he can and will open it right back up whenever he feels like it. I�m not saying now is the best time to push for it (vets might advise you better), but you will have to insist on it if there is ANY further contact, that�s for sure.

This post is too long (a little problem I have) so I�m going to break it here and then bring up some specific issues with a couple of your posts.

Opt

Do you know that when human lips are stimulated in this way, for a man, there is such a rush of hormones that the beard actually grows more that night?
That's powerful stuff. Please don't discount this kissing as NBD. It's big deal. As Linus said there's most likely more to it, but even if not, going from EA to PA is a big brain chemical game changer.

Well, how did you "handle" it?

I don't seem to hold a popular view here about wedding rings. But I do know that for many women, this is a very symbolic piece of jewelry. I believe she is telling you something in very clear terms. I also believe she is telling the world (and potential suitors) something in very clear terms.

Is it possible she's trying to symbolize that YOU'RE to blame for her discontent which lead to her straying? I sense that in your posts. My friend 146 please don't take more of this on yourself. She made a conscious choice and was of sound mind when she locked lips with this loser. She never checked with you first. This was a marital decision she made without considering the consequences or how it would affect you. If you weren't meeting her needs, God made mouths for talking out problems not kissing some predator with no respect marriage.

You're absolutely right that you can't make selfish demands (big LB). But you do need to communicate in a loving way your concern for what she is communicating by not wearing her wedding ring. It is after all a symbol of your commitment to stick with each other through thick and thin. Thick and THIN.


Okay, I'll stop now. But I think you need to Plan A your butt off. And watch her like a hawk. Like a ghost.
If she doesn't like it or if you see her getting defensive, there's a problem in River City. Remember, she betrayed your trust once (that you know of); she has to EARN back that trust.

Oh, one more thing. She HAS to fill out the EN questionairre. My ww didn't want to do it, either. So, make it about her - as Steve Harvey says she's in a very selfish state right now (do you think her being in withdrawal is about you and your personal needs?). Tell her you really want to meet her EN's and be the best husband you know you can be. Therefore, you need a clear target to shoot for. Okay so you've proven you can't read her mind - that's for Hollywood anyway.


Cheers,
opt

Opt,

All good and fair comments, and I appreciate it. Just to clear up the logistics, her father was moved to a different home, the OM worked at home #1. Same company as home 2 but he doesn't work there. I've expressed concern what if he was re-assigned, or filled in. She said she would not visit on such a day. She travels a long way to see her dad. This would be a rather large sacrifice which I did appreciate.

I am doing exactly as yo suggest on the EN quest. Good to know.

Thanks again.