So, IOW, your 1st A actually started SIX months after you got M'd...


Believe me, none of us here will accept it as justification either. OTOH, understanding what went wrong in your M and the part you played in it will help you in your future relationships.

Larry - Thank you for the great advice.

I was willing to forgive my wife's first affair (Attempt at peeing on the electric fence)but the second affair is what did me in.

I already felt like I was going around with a "Stupid" sign stuck to my back after affair #1, but I gotta hold on to some of my pride after affair #2.

"Just compensation."

Ok, I'll go out a a limb here and share some of the problems that we had in our marriage. I want to state very clearly that I am 100% accepting blame for the affair and sharing these reasons are in no way at all to justify my actions. There is no excuse for what I did. Period.

That said. Here is what made me unhappy in our marriage:

- Financial Stability: I make a significant more amount of money than my H (I know this statement will upset him). I had my son very young, but somehow the mistake of having a child young motivated me to excel in my career. Since then, I have been very ambitious. I do not see the same ambition in my H or desire to "move up the chain" to earn more money to support our family. Prior to marriage, he made a promise to further his education and immediately after marriage all intent to pursue that route was gone. He was married to me now, and therefore it did not matter to him to complete that goal.

2. Family Involvement: After marriage, my H's attention towards our son waned. He hardly spoke to him and had no interest in quality time alone with him. My son remarked to me, my parents, my sisters----that my H was cold and mean to him. Our son was very unhappy. I actually never heard my H say that he loved our son until after he learned of the A. I am not sure why that is. H has since apologized to our son for that behavior and our son is a good kid so of course he forgave him.

3. Admiration/Affection: After marriage, my H rarely wanted to have sex and told me "there was more to life". He did not initiate sex and he hardly gave me compliments. He showed affection, but it was rare. H rarely did "thoughtful things" to show me he cared or to help of his own offering---and since, I have a stressful job---those little things would have meant a lot. (I do admit that he did help when asked---after complaining)

4. Recreational Companionship: After marriage, my H rarely liked to go on fun "trips" with me or do things like shop with me. I would plead with him for his time, but he was not interested. He did go sometimes.

Those were my main points and I know that I had my faults too.

BN, your WW's moral compass was properly broken by her relationship with OM #1. It's not surprising that she got involved in another A. It likely was simply a matter of opportunity.

I just wanted to add that although those above items made me unhappy. There are many good things about H and his a really good person---that is why I do want him to be happy in life and I don't want him to suffer.

Well BN, you're welcome. Of course I see her playing "Ima Target" right now, so at least she is willing to take the heat for a really, really bad set of decisions. I don't have any pity, but I do have a bit of sympathy watching her take the blows, some of them unsubtle to the max.


The reality is that it was the lying that gotcha, I suspect.

I suspect if DDay was a total confession, you would have handled it differently. Or at least I think so. Loss of trust times two strung out is tough. And I know times two is double hurt. My then wife had an affair with my last living relative, who I trusted as much as I trusted here. We eventually divorced for issues that on balance were only influenced by the affair, which was not the decisive blow, just to keep the record straight. At the same time, I can attest that there is a tremendous level of affection still existing and we share joint custody and a time share arrangement with our son.

Anyway, I wear my horns and mourn my loss of innocence. On the other hand, I am wiser for what happened and I hang around her sometimes trying to help people make the most out of the adversity of adultery. And I am as quick to both defend and pound on both the betrayed and the betrayer, each for different reasons. So many of those who betray make excuses, which means another electric fence in their future, maybe, and so many of the betrayed lose the opportunity to learn some really important life lessons by the event.

Heck, this site is FULL of opportunities to learn.

Larry

Thanks Larry.

I regret not being completely honest on DD1. I wanted to confess OM2, but for some idiotic reason held back.

Later, I spoke to my father (a wayward himself) who reprimanded me for admitting OM1 and let me know that I should have followed the "don't ask, don't tell" policy. I guess it swayed me to keep OM2 secret (the A was totally ended by then to be clear). Of course, I am a grown woman and I should NOT have been influenced by my father's clearly, BAD advice.

I regret not being completely honest about everything when I admitted OM1. That was a HUGE mistake.

Well heck Hamster, I would have complained too. Or at least hauled him to marriage coaching or Harley or something. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle that adversity. Of course, as you well know by now, you picked the one that was guaranteed to do the most harm instead of the most good.

Too bad they don't teach marriage and family life in school.

What you picked was emotional rape. Not a good thing. But you know that, uh, now. Ain't hindsight always 20/20? So you have learned your life lesson which then becomes a part of who you are. He wears his horns and you wear your scarlet A. I have a hot flash for you. His horns and your A are worn by at least half the people you see in your local supermarket. Did you know that?

The dumbest thing you did, well, one of the dumber things you did was not doing a full and complete confession the first time, but you know that. Never fail to tell the whole truth or that lie hanging out there will follow you around like the Karma bus and run over you at some point. I suspect you got that too.

Larry

Yes, I definitely learned a lot of things from this experience and I'm smart enough not to do it again. It's really crappy that I learned it in this way. I get really sad and mad at myself, but the therapist really helps. Her husband left her for OW so I feel like she knows what my marriage is going through.

I hope me and BN can be friends one day like you and your ex wife.

Oh good grief Hamster. Asking a drunk for directions to an AA meeting is not a good idea, if you get my drift. And that wasn't a HUGE mistake, it was a terminal mistake. Kinda like the dog made on the third try.

Frankly, I think this is a life lesson you will carry around all of your life and if you learned it well, makes you a better person than you were before. And that is a good thing.

One thing that you can do is to read...every...single word that is posted under Dr. Harley's methods. I guarantee you will be a better educated person for that.

Larry

In general, I support Dr. Harley's observation and teaching that men and women who are married should not look outside their marriage for friendship except under controlled circumstances, or something like that.

On the other hand, some few of us have boundaries that, as a man, I could be a friend with a topless dancer and not view her as a sex object, at least for me. I am not asexual at all, I just demand of myself that I have one interest at a time, period. That wasn't true before I turned 30 though. And it wasn't true until after I got run over by more than one Karma bus.

Ouch, it hurt, I got it, I got it, don't back up again, please!

Larry

Ummmm, my ex is untouchable by me. But I would give her a kidney if she needed it to live. Does that make sense?

Larry

I would probably do the same Larry. I can't forget how we helped each other through our 7 years together, but I just can't be married to her after what she did to me. That ultimate life partner friendship, respect and trust had been destroyed.

I'm definitely walking away with some valuable life lessons.

Ya know Hamster you really stuck a stake through your BH's heart. Not only did you have two affairs during the first year of your marriage, but you lied and concealed the second one. On top of that, you apparently had a great old time telling your girlfriends in your chat logs about your 'gym buddy'. What kind of woman does this? What kind of people are your girlfriends to go along with this behavior? You really need to not only take a hard look at yourself but also look at those people you are surrounding yourself with. The utter humiliation you put your BH through on top of the lying and cheating is reprehensible.

Try not to get immediately defensive to this post. Really think on it....

hamster,
Well, hold the fort.
I signed on here just now and often I read other peoples' stories to get some insight in how they have handled an affair in their marriages. I read yours because it was first in line and also because in my case I am the BS. I almost hesitatd in posting on your situation because I am very new here and very new into MB. But, my wife and I have been married for a long time now, and I do think I have at least some life experience advice to give.

Some thoughts. Have you actually read some of the peoples' situations? I suggest that you do, because there are a number here that I nowhave read who have to face significant obstacles in their marriages, such as physical and mental illness, dysfunctional families, etc. Some of them have restored their marriages, some are at least working hard to, and some just relate their better lives after the hard work even if separation or divorce is the result. I didn't see anything like that in your situation, only that for some reason and suddenly there was a terrific breakdown.

For one thing, and up to page 7 I have seen your puclic bickering here, and that is just immature. For another, your statement really seem incongruent. In your introduction you state you love your husband dearly and what can you do to make him happy, and in your complaints list you bring up a couple of pretty serious deal breakers. The issue of income Should Not be important, as it seems you two have plenty of time to discuss. Finally, you seem to be all to eager to take the altruistic way by 'sacraficing' yourself and your marriage for the sake of his happiness. There are other ways to learn to over time assure his happiness. Is there more to this?

There is nothing unkind in this, just some thoughts from a crotchety older guy who has been through this for some years.

Thanks.

Again, I am not experienced in this except in my own situation, but I think the two of you really need to step back from this and engage in both individual and joint counseling on marital relationships, and relationships in general.

@ Mindshare - No I totally see where you are coming from and really nasty, ugly person would do that sort of things. A person that is not the sort of person that I would want to be would make such comments. It's heartless to be frank. I need to work on myself because I made 'terminal' decisions, mistakes, and acted heartlessly---but I am not naturally a hard core evil person, so I know that behavior can be fixed over time.

I am not being defensive, but I do want to clarify for the record that there is only 1 girlfriend who knows of OM2 and that is the person in reference here regarding the chat. I have been friends with this girlfriend since the 3rd grade. She should have never entertained my conversation and that was a bad decision on her part. That said, she is not a bad person---I am the bad person. But yea -- I definitely will not see relationship advice from this friend ever again.

I understand where you are coming from---if I heard the story of myself from another friend...I would say the same thing---"What kind of person does that?"

Good point. That must have been incredibly damaging to your H, particularly considering how he found out about it!

Ahhh but my friend BN, you haven't been reading, have you?

See if you had inhaled, you would have found a modification to your statement so it would read like this:

"That ultimate life partner friendship, respect and verifiable trust had been destroyed."

There is a 50-50% chance that the person you get with will betray you at some point. Well, unless you learn the lessons that are here to be learned and thus reduce but not eliminate the odds.

Heck, there is a 50-50% chance the person you get with will have already betrayed someone. Walk around the supermarket and the people you see, half of them have horns and half of them wear the scarlet A. Something like half the men and half the women, plus or minus depending on who you read, will have an affair at some point in their lives.

And the reasons are manifold but explained by Dr. Harley. He doesn't dwell on it. Dr. Harley focuses on solving the immediate problem and focusing on the future once he gets both parties on board.

Now let me say something to you that I consider to be important and for your own long term benefit.

Hmmmm. The context of this thread is not good for what I need to say. The focus is wrong. But it needs saying anyway.

What I would like for you to do is to take responsibility for 50% of the state of the marriage. Can you do that? You have zero responsibility for Hamster's horrible decision. But you do have responsibility for the marriage atmosphere, especially that associated with the boy. If what she says about the boy is true, you have some of your own to pay, right? And you were there during his formative years, don't you dare abandon that boy or the Karma bus will pick you and and take you to a deserted quarry and run over you a few times.

Larry

Correction: there's only one girlfriend that YOU talked to about OM2. How do you know that she hasn't mentioned it to anyone else? How do you know that no-one else has seen those messages?



If she just let you engage in an A like that without raising her concerns, I think you may want to look elsewhere for friendship - period.

Very Bad way to find out-- TERMINAL.

Thanks Tom for posting and sharing your thoughts/advice. No, the only reason I mention "letting him be" and signing the papers is because BN (my H) has consistently asked me not to beg/plead/try/convince him any further. He told me that if I "really loved him" that I would sign the papers.

I am willing to work through it and I told H that I am will to pay "just compensation" for this A. I realize the road to making H happy would be hard...but I am willing to do it. That said, I don't want to "force something that is delaying the inevitable" as another poster said or hold him hostage to a marriage that is making him miserable.