What's up EC. How are you doing?

Larry

EC-

Please put that money somewhere safe!

I am in a better mood today. I tried to stay busy during the weekend by spending time with my DDs and working out. In the mean time, I have been keeping a safe distance from Rizos.

This morning I was looking for a cell phone charger. Rizos told me that I could find it in one of her drawers. When I open the drawer I see the charge right on top of a newspaper clip with OM's picture. To be honest, I felt a little indifferent but still kindly requested her to get rid of it. She didn't say a word about it. I won't let this stuff bother me.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

What in the world did she have that for????

What do you think about reading your spouses posts? I imagine the answer is POJA. But I'd like to hear if there are any guidelines re couples posting here.

I've been trying to stay away from Rizos's new thread (admittedly, I've taken a peek here and there):

He thinks I'm wrong, and I think he's wrong!!!!!

BTW, her thread's title reflects the sad condition of our M. A lot of Rizos actions make me feel like she's trying to compete about who's right in this situation. But that's just me.

I am sure that she'd find many LBs in my thread so I requested her to avoid reading my posts to prevent withdrawing LUs.



--ElCamino72

I don't want to speculate too much about the source of this picture. It's an old article in a local newspaper promoting the company. OM is prominently portrayed in the picture (I am not in the picture). The newspaper page was folded in a way that when I opened the drawer there was the picture of OM looking right at me.

The position of the paper may suggest that this piece of OM "memorabilia" was recently placed there. Perhaps accidentally? Only Rizos could answer that question. But I am not looking for an answer unless Rizos has a need to say how it found its way there.

--ElCamino72

ElC

I have sought answers from rizos on a number of issues and was not successful. That picture maintains the fog, imho. I am reluctant to say more.

Larry

t/j

Pep:

Yes, but not by much. I started in the early 80's. 26 countries! The culture I mentioned was still there. And obvious for those of us who looked. I edited the post because while I did not intend for it to be personal, on reflection it was, somewhat. And that was not my goal at all.

Larry

end t/j

DITTO X 2

Kindly inform your wife to please come to her thread.

thank you.

EC

Just as information, I am not new to MB as you can see from my registration. I left for a while for various reasons and I am now back for even more obscure reasons than the ones that caused me to leave.

I just skimmed through your very well done posts to your thread. I found that your narratives effectively communicated your situation and the issues that concerned you. I have been posting to Rizos' thread and ran into situations and attitude that created certain questions in my mind, unanswered questions. Then I read some of your first posts and you confirmed my impressions. I do have a couple of questions that would help me to better understand just a few things, if you don't mind.

1. I don't understand why it was you who had to sell. You did nothing in terms of the A. You may email me if you want the reason to be held confidential but you don't mind sharing with one or two people so long as it is held to that number.

2. Am I correct, this was the second time that Rizos hair had become an issue. The first time would have been just before MB weekend. Did I get that right? If it is the second time, I would find that very, very interesting.

3. You have said that OM is a serial predator/adulterer and that OMW is ok with it. Why then did she inform you? Or do you not know? I do have some grasp of cultural bias in PR and thus why both informing and being okay might apply, but would be interested in your opinion.

4. Do you think that MB weekend and the MB program has helped both of you equally?

You stated that OM was less than cordial. This puzzles me somewhat. I am reluctant to post why in an open forum. Yes, I know, I shouldn't be puzzled; yet I am.

The purpose of my questions is to get you to reflect and if you elect to answer, to see if I can share any insight that might apply based on what you tell me. Since you are in the care of the Harley's, for whom I have absolute respect and admiration both professionally and personally, it would be my purpose to then act as a cheerleader and encourage you to follow their lead with whatever turns up. I think you know what I mean.

I have sent a number of people to the coaching center. And I intend to keep on doing it. One of the purposes of this support group is to help keep each of you focused until your next time with Steve, who is the man with the plan for those who would follow what he teaches. Dr. Harley has saved countless marriages with his infidelity work and bolstered many, many other marriages that had not reached that stage, with his books, this forum and his radio program plus his coaching center. Steve is a acorn that has fallen close to the tree.

Larry

Hi Larry,

Let me answer your questions briefly. If you need further details please feel free to ask.

1) The reason for me to sell my part of the business is that it was the most effective way to move on. In my conversations with my lawyers my premise has always been how to exit as soon as possible. The company was a 50-50% partnership which makes the situation more difficult. My other options would have meant long drawn legal battles, taking a stance to break up the company (big impact to a lot of families) or giving it away to OM. I am convinced that the best option was to sell.

I have wanted to sell the company for a long time. Way before I even suspected the A. But I never imagined that it'd be under these conditions. Selling the company in this economy to professional investors and under extreme circumstances has been THE biggest business challenge I've ever faced. Not for the faint of heart. Perhaps in time I may feel proud of all the negotiation and business maneuvers I took to close the sale.

2) There have been way more than two hair incidents. It has been a recurring issue. Counting since Oct when we started coaching with Steve, there has occurred at least a handful instances of hairstyle situations. Before I did the shameful hairdryer hammering, when a violation occurred, I would just inform her that the hairstyle changes hurt me and that it was a trigger. I'd request her that we should use the POJA about it but she's been reluctant. There have been other recurring abusive actions done in a similar pattern as the hairstyle including D threats and questionable Facebook/Messenger use plus other.

3) OMW didn't inform me of the A. I exposed to her on D-Day. I suspected a lot of OM cheating since when we traveled together he'd go "visit" female friends. After D-Day I found many messages from OM to other victims that are amazingly identical to the ones he used to send Rizos. He kept at least 5 women under the same game during the same year and a half he was in the A with Rizos.

I was in communication with OMW for about a week after D-Day. The last message I received from her was basically saying that she accepts the serial cheating situation with OM. She stopped talking to me when she realized the financial impact of the A.

4) MB has helped me tremendously. I have a whole new set of tools to better reach the goal of having a loving M. I realize that I still need to improve a lot in the execution of the program but I believe in it. I can see that Rizos has come to learn most of the mechanics and logic of the program. She can recite a lot of the Dr. Harley rules/policies. However, I feel that she's been struggling with the implementation - specially of POJA and PORH. Maybe I need to do a better job at helping her be more comfortable doing it but right now it is not clear what else I could be doing.

Thanks for your valuable help to my M.

--ElCamino72

El Camino, did you read this thread over on the weekend forum? here

Hi Mel,

I read the thread. I completely agree with what Dr. Harley responded.

After one of our first coaching with Steve Harley back in Nov I carefully brought the exposure issue to Rizos according to SH instructions. She was initially very upset about it. I even posted details back then on this thread when I brought it up.

In a subsequent session with SH we discussed the exposure issue. Rizos told me that SH explained the reasons of exposure to her and that she understood better. At the time she said that she was willing to tell our relatives. We even talked about how difficult it'd be but that it'd be for the best. I stated that I'd support her in doing so. A few days later she told her two sisters and a friend about the A. But she stopped there. I understood that it was to avoid disrupting the holidays.

Later on, I consulted again exposure with SH but per his suggestion I haven't brought it up again.

The other issue is that I am not even sure of what she actually has told to her sisters and friend. There are situations that lead me to suspect that she may need to further clarify the situation. Additionally, I tend to think that she owes an apology to some of our relatives and friends.

Thanks

--ElCamino72

El Camino

You are welcome. Although I am not sure what, if anything, I may be doing to help you. I am just exploring ideas derived from reading rizos' posts and then your posts to confirm what I had already concluded from reading her's.

Having built a business of a certain size in days gone by, I can read between the lines. It would appear that you have managed to sell something you wanted to sell anyway and that is indeed a very high level accomplishment, considering your situation. The fate of the business is no longer in your hands, and that is as you wanted it to be. It is obvious you have an ability for clear vision both professionally and privately.


Sorry, I got it wrong. Lots of posts to remember. OMW's motivation is obviously economic, so no surprise there. And thus no reason to dwell on the subject.

OM's motivation and skill set is a bit more complex.

As you have noted, he is a serial predator/adulterer. That represents a type of personality that can often translate to problems with employees, partners, customers and the general public. He appears to be adept at keeping women on a string, with practiced communication calculated to pull at their heart strings and emotional structure. In other words, he brings out infatuation in the hearts of his female prey, who then make excuses in their own minds so they continue to have access to the drug like "Fix" as is taught in MB.

The greater his success, the more contempt he has for his prey.

The more I read in your posts that you have written AND what you have not said, the more I am convinced that I can offer very little to you that you do not already know, both from your MB education and from your own excellent powers of observation and ability to think in behalf of both your long term and short term objectives. Therefore, it would seem reasonable for me to continue to pick at Rizos for a chance to help her focus on the realities of her life instead of the fantasy(s).

I did ask her why you were not comfortable associating with her family on a near continuous basis. So far, no answer that is understandable. She also said she would offer to take a lie detector test, something I was surprised to see you reject. After thinking about it, I was no longer surprised. Finally, Rizos is afraid of O&H, for cultural and personal reasons.

I get it.

Larry

Last night Rizos asked me about telling her parents about the A. Due to the sensitive nature of the conversation, I kept it brief and avoided sneaking LBs. Her question was if I thought that not telling would be a deal breaker. I replied that time would tell but that I felt it is a necessary step.

I said that I'd be willing to wait a reasonable time until she can consider the reasons to do it. She asked me why I wanted her to tell, I said that honesty would tremendously help our M, that it'd make amends and that if one of our daughters ever had a similar problem, as a father, I would think that I'd like to know so that I can help. She said something that implied that I was trying to punish her. I told her that if I wanted to punish her I would have already told her parents myself on my terms. Rizos didn't respond but it seems like she's on the fence on this issue. I told her that when the time comes, she can count with my support to her since I know this is a very difficult situation for both of us. The conversation was less tense than others so I'm going to get into a positive mindset.

BTW, there's some external influence from people close to Rizos that do not want her to tell her parents. I think the way to look at it is simple. On one side you have Dr Harley a PhD, licensed clinical psychologist, best selling author, successful marriage counsellor who's helped thousands of couples, world wide authority on affair recovery and happily married for a long time. On the other side, you have people with shaky marriages. The option with a higher degree of long term success should be obvious when you look at it objectively.

Getting help directly from Dr Harley is a blessing that I hope we can both can take advantage for the happiness of both of us and the well-being of our DDs. I mean, let's say that I was in a difficult financial situation and I am receiving specific advise from Warren Buffett himself (highly successful long term investor) and conflicting recommendations from my cousin (who has had a long history of financial problems and is currently bankrupt). If I had to bet my financial future, I'd put my money on Warren's advice without any hesitation.

--ElCamino72

Just posted this to Rizos thread...

Top Ten Reasons to Tell the Truth:

10) It keeps you from having to remember which lie you told whom.
9) It prevents people from hating you if they find out the truth from somebody else.
8) It allows a person to choose to love you knowing who you are rather than loving someone that isn't the real you.
7) It teaches your children the value of being honest.
6) Lying is a Love Buster
5) Failing to tell the truth squanders an opportunity to do something that will make your spouse love you more by meeting an emotional need.
4) Telling the truth opens the lines of communication and allows the other person to provide honest feedback for our lives instead of advice that does not supply us with what we really need.
3) Telling the truth kills the affair once and for all, since it was based entirely on fantasy and lies.
2) Telling the truth is good practice at open communication that improves the likelihood of getting what you want in the future.

In this case, the NUMBER ONE reason to tell the truth:

1) Telling the truth will prevent the grandparents from resenting the father of their grandchildren for taking the grandchildren away from them fearing that he is being manipulative and controlling or that they themselves have done something that has caused them to no longer have access to their grandchildren.